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How did Jesus come from King David's family tree?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Life2Christ, Jun 6, 2012.

  1. Life2Christ

    Life2Christ Guest

    I don't know how Jesus came from King David's family line when Jesus was born of a virgin. Joseph came from David's line but Jesus was not part of Joseph in any way. Secondly, where was Joseph at the cruicifixion? Was he dead?
     
  2. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih

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    The genealogies in Matthew and Luke (however inconsistent) show how Jesus can be traced back to King David through Jospeh thus fulfilling the scripture. I don't see Jesus being born of a virgin a problem with this as I just assume that the one who has the power to make a virgin conceive also has the power to manipulate the DNA of the embryo so Joseph as the biological father can be possible.

    Since the bible does trace Jesus's lineage from the line of Joseph and since a requirement of the Messiah had to be in the line of David then this could be an explanation. However I think other possibilities could be accepted as well for example there are exceptions in the bible made for the child of a woman to be raised and considered from the line of man even when it is not biologically possible. One example that comes to mind is Tamar and Onan. Onan was the brother of Tamar's husband Er and was to take the place of Er to impregnate Tamar since Er died before he had a chance to have a heir. Onan didn't want to do this so "spilled his seed on the ground" because he knew the child would not be raised as his own but instead as Er's child. So it seem Jewish culture had some exceptions that went beyond biological and perhaps Jesus is an example of this.
     
  3. RETS

    RETS Telling it like it is

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    I'll grab you some sources when I'm not quite so busy, but you'd be very interested to find out just WHY Joseph had nothing to do with Christ. A ways back before Joseph, his actual line was involved in great evil before the Lord. God, speaking through a prophet, informed them that none of their seed would ever sit on the throne.

    However, Mary herself comes from the line of David, as well... ;)



    As for Joseph being at the crucifixion, most scholars agree that he had probably died even before the Wedding at Cana.
     
  4. ECBBLMSTR

    ECBBLMSTR Regular Member

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    My understanding is that Jesus is descended from the union of David and Bathsheba, both through his "father" and through his mother. Joseph was Jesus' legal father, so I don't see a problem with Jesus tracing his lineage through him. I think that the fact that Christ is a descendant of Bathsheba by both his parents is proof that it was God's will for David to add Bathsheba to his wives, and indicates that polygyny is of God. David let his desire for her lead him into adultery and murder. He got ahead of God's timing, Who most likely would have had Uriah die in battle if David had not called him home!
     
  5. DamianWarS

    DamianWarS Follower of Isa Al Masih

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    Perhaps adultery and murder are also "of God". Christ being a descendant of Bathsheba is an example of his grace reigning in a situation that for Bathsheba was forced on her and for David started as a very lustful moment but turned into judgment and a very humbling experience. God works despite our arrogance and ability to go astray and that is all I get out of Bathsheba and David not that polygamy is God-approved which to me is grossly misrepresenting the focus of the text.
     
  6. ECBBLMSTR

    ECBBLMSTR Regular Member

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    Not sure what you're trying to say. We already know that adultery and murder are sinful and God punished David for both of these, though he was shown mercy in that he wasn't put to death. On the other hand, there is an abundance of scriptural evidence that God approves of polygyny, men having numerous wives. The very conversation of Nathan with David confirms that, let alone all the heroes of the faith like Moses, Abraham, Jacob, Gideon, Caleb and others who were polygamists. If God had a problem with it , He would have said so, rather than merely regulate the practice. If it was sinful for David to marry more than one woman, do you think he would commit a "sin" by marrying Bathsheba so soon after God had exposed and judged him for what he did to Uriah? The Talmud taught that their relationship was ordained by God and that David regarded Bathsheba as the wife God had ordained for him.

    Bathsheba wasn't raped. She willingly agreed to adultery without a complaint that we read about. I suspect that she was already in love with David before any of this came about, and she might have deliberately allowed David to see her bathing. David didn't sin by looking at her and desiring her sexually at the outset. The Bible doesn't teach that. But, once he knew the woman was married, lusting for her was wrong, as Moses taught and Jesus confirmed.

    At some point in their relationship, David promised her that her son would be king of Israel. Why would he promise her that when he already had older sons by previous wives? We don't know if that was what she asked in exchange for him having sex with her, but I think its possible. So, personally, I don't believe that Bathsheba felt like she was forced to have sex with David. There's no evidence that she was afraid of him. What was likely forced upon Bathsheba was her marriage to Uriah who was likely old enough to be her father. He was a Hittite so this may have offended her was well, since all Jewish girls hoped to give birth to the Messiah. He was also a warrior and might not have been that gracious in the bedoroom. So, I don't think she was happy in her marriage to him and she sensed that she had a call to greatness as well.

    I don't believe it was any accident that both of Jesus' earthly parents were descendants of David, since He was predicted to be the "son of David". The fact that two of Bathsheba's sons would be chosen by God to be ancestors to His Son speaks volumes about the nobility and virtue of Bathsheba, David's eighth wife. I really believe God had ordained their marriage, they sensed it, but got ahead of God. There is also this little known fact that Israel's soldiers gave their wives temporary divorces when they went to battle, so that they could remarry if they were missing in action or killed. Bathsheba was technically unmarried, and sex was regarded in those days as a means to create a marriage. So, the king and Bathsheba were probably justifying their affair that way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012
  7. My Messianic Jewish friend told me that children in the Jewish culture often took their mother's name to ensure of blood lineage. We take the name of our husbands now and so do our children. Has anyone heard of that history? Thanks.
     
  8. RETS

    RETS Telling it like it is

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    Yes, the blood lineage is passed through the mother, while things such as land, royalty, etc., is passed from the father.
     
  9. RETS

    RETS Telling it like it is

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    So... Do you live your life according to the Old Testament, then?


    Horsecrud. That's something I've also heard here and there, but have never yet seen proof of it. There is, however, legal precedent for the declaration of death after a period of MIA; as well as a widow being legally bound, if there are children involved, to remarry upon the death of her husband, and after the period of mourning. That is precisely why the "kinsman redeemer" existed.

    If you provide concrete evidence of this claim, I'll revoke my proclamation- But until then, I'll say it again: Bunk.
     
  10. WinBySurrender

    WinBySurrender New Member

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    Joseph was his adoptive father. An adoptive son in the Jewish and Roman cultures was given even more solid inheritance rights than a natural son. For example, neither culture would allow an adoptive son to be disowned, whereas it was acceptable to disown a natural son.

    Secondly, Jesus descends from David through both parents. He is of the line of direct descent from David through Joseph, though that line was cut off from its right to throne when Jehoiachin was taken captive barely three months after ascending to the throne, and God said the line was cut off due to the evil done by Jehoiachin and his immediate predecessors.

    However, Nathan, David's son, was the progenitor of Mary, and by her lineage Jesus is legitimately linked to David and has authority to assume the throne of Israel.
    And may I ask what this off-topic nonsense has to do with the original question?
     
    RETS likes this.
  11. RETS

    RETS Telling it like it is

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    For those involved in the side discussion, I have created a new thread on the subject of polygyny.

    In the interest of preventing this thread from derailing, please continue your discussions HERE.


    Thank you!
     
  12. ECBBLMSTR

    ECBBLMSTR Regular Member

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    "Quote of my conversation regarding Bathsheba, David and polygamy"
    I never speak nonsense. As you can see, I was replying to DamianWarS's reply to my post. Sorry if you got distracted.
     
  13. ECBBLMSTR

    ECBBLMSTR Regular Member

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    We all do, or should to the extent that it conforms to New Testament revelation. "Now all these things (OT events) happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come." 1 Cor.10:11 " For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." Rom.15:4 The New Testament moral code is squarely based upon the Old Testament law; it was their only Bible, the standard for faith and practice to the early Church. It is "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Tim.3:16)

    Regarding polygamy, we should abide by the laws of the State in this matter, since the forbidding of polygamy doesn't violate God's law, it just restricts the sexual freedom in a way that God did/does not.

    God's laws granted that a man could have more than one wife, as well as concubines. It never outlawed sex with single women, just married women. There was an expectation that if a man had sex with a virgin that he would be expected to marry her, since having sex was a lawful way to acquire a wife.


    I have read this about Bathsheba at numerous sites such as
    History Crash Course #18: David: The King and

    Bath-Sheba and

    Bathsheba: Midrash and Aggadah | Jewish Women's Archive

    My inclination is that though this may be true that she was technically a divorced woman as long as he was in battle, they seem to be engaging in revisionist history to make David and Bathsheba look better than they were. God didn't seem to like it very much, to say the least. David mistreated Uriah and Uriah's faithfulness and integrity is like a blazing torch in the narrative.
     
  14. RETS

    RETS Telling it like it is

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    By nonsense, he meant that you were way off topic after only two posts. You noticed I created a special thread for that, right?
     
  15. ECBBLMSTR

    ECBBLMSTR Regular Member

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    Yes, thanks. I'll be getting back on here perhaps tomorrow night and check it out.
     
  16. WinBySurrender

    WinBySurrender New Member

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    So, you let someone derail your thoughts regarding the original topic of the thread, then chose to continue the derailment rather than jump off the train? Gotcha. Next time I'll look out for that.