How close to the 'end' of this earth as we know it?

[Imagican]

The Bible informs us that upon Christ's return, this earth is going to be transformed into a 'different world'.

When asked about the 'time' of His return, Christ stated that only the Father knew the 'time'.

But, there were signs that would take place to let us know when the 'time' was near. Christ described these 'signs' that would take place before He would return.

It would appear that almost everything He predicted that would 'happen first' have already taken place.

Does this mean that we are 'very close' to the 'time' of His return?

If so, then one of the 'things' described as 'happening first' is that the 'world' would be followers of something other than the truth. It states that there 'must come a falling away first'.

What is the 'falling away'? Certainly it isn't a 'falling away from religion' or a 'falling away from faith', for these things would endure no matter what. They always have been an integral part of the existence of man, so it must be something else.

It is my belief that the reference is to 'truth'. That directly before the return of Christ, mankind will have 'fallen away' from the 'truth'. Following truth of their own design instead of the 'truth' as delivered by God through prophet, His own Son and the apostles.

So, if what I have offered is the truth, then that would mean if we are 'closer than every' to the 'time' of Christ's return, the 'falling away' must have already begun and be nearing it's completion.

Now, the important question would be: 'What is the 'source' of the influence of the 'falling away'. What will 'lead' men to follow their own truth rather than that offered by God through His messengers?

It's pretty obvious.

Satan.

Satan has one goal and that one goal is what he's been working towards for thousands upon thousands of years.

Satan wants to 'be God'. And the only way that he can fulfill that goal is to have men worship him as God.

That means that Satan has been working towards turning men away from the truth and to follow him instead of God for thousands of years.

There are many in this world that do not 'worship any specific God'. Satan already owns those souls. No need to exert specific influence on these for they are already following that which leads them to worship him even if indirectly.

Those that Satan would exert the most energy towards would be those that still possess some 'truth' that has been delivered by God through His messengers. Turning those away from the truth of God and directing them to worship him as God instead.

That is what I believe the 'falling away' to be. Satan replacing God's truth with his truth and convincing men that it is 'their own'. Teaching men to teach each other that he is God and bringing them to bow to him instead of God.

A tricky question: If one did not 'know' God, if Satan pretended to be God, how would one 'know' the difference? In other words, if Satan is capable of 'lying wonders' and miracles, how does one 'know' how to distinguish the difference between his miracles and lying wonders from the Spirit of God?

And if Satan has introduced a 'false Christ', how does one 'know' the difference between Satan's 'false Christ' and the 'true Christ'? If Satan is able to mimic the true Christ, how does one distinguish the difference between the Son of God and the Son of Satan?

And what if? What IF Satan is able to offer more 'sensual feelings' than those offered by God? What if he is able to appeal to the flesh in a manner that God would never attempt? And what if that is what men desire more than that which is Spiritual: that which is sensual?

Understand, we do not battle against 'flesh' but against evil influence in high places. Those that have the ability to alter the perceptions of this world in a profound manner. Those in POWER to control what we are exposed to the most.

Media, the churches, schools, governments, political and social leaders, doctors, lawyers, the courts and judges. What if 'all' those in a place of power are being manipulated by Satan in order to influence the rest of us. University professors, kindergarten teachers, mayors, governors, presidents. What if these are the individuals referred to as 'powers and high places'?

And what we see more than anything else in the world today is an attempt at conformity. We are being manipulated by governments to be 'good citizens'. To 'do' that which we are 'trained' to do for the betterment of the 'whole'. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". Is it really that difficult to see just how easily such a mantra could be used to turn one away from the truth and towards a 'worldly goal'?

We are warned that the 'judges of this world' are 'worldly judges'. If it was that way during the time of Christ, imagine how much more so today than then. For nothing has gotten in the way of such change. If anything, greed for wealth and power has increased instead of decreased. And there is no greater influence on this earth than wealth and power. When we read the Bible we can clearly see the examples offered where even those devoted to God have been able to be 'carried away' by their own lusts for wealth and power.

So who close are we really? For it is without any doubt that the closer we get the more the 'falling away' will become fulfilled. Every day closer, the more the 'falling away' will become closer to being manifest. At what point does the 'falling away' become complete?

The Bible tells us that God must 'cut the days short' or even His very elect will be led astray.

If we use the Bible as an example, each time that God has chosen to destroy men, there was only ONE left that God considered 'worthy' to be saved.

Noah, at one point Moses had to appeal to God 'not' to destroy 'the people' and start over with 'just him', Lot. Each of these examples are God saving the 'only' person worthy and destroying the rest.

Will it be any different in the end? Will God destroy the righteous along with the unrighteous in the 'end' of this world as we know it? Not according to the examples we have from the Bible. He will wait till only one or very few exist to 'cut the days short.

So if we are 'very close' to that time, how many can we suppose still exist? How many of God's 'very elect' remain at the present time? And as we speak, wouldn't the concept dictate that every day, some of God's 'very elect' are being 'led astray'?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Wgw]

This planet will come to an end in a few billion years, when the sun will expand and engulf it after having exhausted its supply of hydrogen. This does not mean the parousia will not transpire before this point, so perhaps Terra will not have the opportunity to be destroyed in that manner.

 

[xpower]

unknown.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Good OP

So if we are 'very close' to that time, how many can we suppose still exist? How many of God's 'very elect' remain at the present time? And as we speak, wouldn't the concept dictate that every day, some of God's 'very elect' are being 'led astray'?

If that were even possible. But the days of Lot metric is no longer in play. Right now we're waiting for the rebels to become completely wicked. We're waiting for the transgressors to reach their limit, to run their course and fill up their cup. Then a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise.

It's too bad Ward Cleaver isn't around today so that we could ask what he thinks about this:

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/map-same-sex-marriage/

We're closer than ever before.

English Standard Version
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

New International Version
"In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise.

New Living Translation
"At the end of their rule, when their sin is at its height, a fierce king, a master of intrigue, will rise to power.

English Standard Version
And at the latter end of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their limit, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise.

New American Standard Bible
"In the latter period of their rule, When the transgressors have run their course, A king will arise, Insolent and skilled in intrigue.

King James Bible
And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.​

 

[Shempster]

The Bible informs us that upon Christ's return, this earth is going to be transformed into a 'different world'.

When asked about the 'time' of His return, Christ stated that only the Father knew the 'time'.

But, there were signs that would take place to let us know when the 'time' was near. Christ described these 'signs' that would take place before He would return.

It would appear that almost everything He predicted that would 'happen first' have already taken place.

Does this mean that we are 'very close' to the 'time' of His return?

If so, then one of the 'things' described as 'happening first' is that the 'world' would be followers of something other than the truth. It states that there 'must come a falling away first'.

What is the 'falling away'? Certainly it isn't a 'falling away from religion' or a 'falling away from faith', for these things would endure no matter what. They always have been an integral part of the existence of man, so it must be something else.

It is my belief that the reference is to 'truth'. That directly before the return of Christ, mankind will have 'fallen away' from the 'truth'. Following truth of their own design instead of the 'truth' as delivered by God through prophet, His own Son and the apostles.

So, if what I have offered is the truth, then that would mean if we are 'closer than every' to the 'time' of Christ's return, the 'falling away' must have already begun and be nearing it's completion.

Now, the important question would be: 'What is the 'source' of the influence of the 'falling away'. What will 'lead' men to follow their own truth rather than that offered by God through His messengers?

It's pretty obvious.

Satan.

Satan has one goal and that one goal is what he's been working towards for thousands upon thousands of years.

Satan wants to 'be God'. And the only way that he can fulfill that goal is to have men worship him as God.

That means that Satan has been working towards turning men away from the truth and to follow him instead of God for thousands of years.

There are many in this world that do not 'worship any specific God'. Satan already owns those souls. No need to exert specific influence on these for they are already following that which leads them to worship him even if indirectly.

Those that Satan would exert the most energy towards would be those that still possess some 'truth' that has been delivered by God through His messengers. Turning those away from the truth of God and directing them to worship him as God instead.

That is what I believe the 'falling away' to be. Satan replacing God's truth with his truth and convincing men that it is 'their own'. Teaching men to teach each other that he is God and bringing them to bow to him instead of God.

A tricky question: If one did not 'know' God, if Satan pretended to be God, how would one 'know' the difference? In other words, if Satan is capable of 'lying wonders' and miracles, how does one 'know' how to distinguish the difference between his miracles and lying wonders from the Spirit of God?

And if Satan has introduced a 'false Christ', how does one 'know' the difference between Satan's 'false Christ' and the 'true Christ'? If Satan is able to mimic the true Christ, how does one distinguish the difference between the Son of God and the Son of Satan?

And what if? What IF Satan is able to offer more 'sensual feelings' than those offered by God? What if he is able to appeal to the flesh in a manner that God would never attempt? And what if that is what men desire more than that which is Spiritual: that which is sensual?

Understand, we do not battle against 'flesh' but against evil influence in high places. Those that have the ability to alter the perceptions of this world in a profound manner. Those in POWER to control what we are exposed to the most.

Media, the churches, schools, governments, political and social leaders, doctors, lawyers, the courts and judges. What if 'all' those in a place of power are being manipulated by Satan in order to influence the rest of us. University professors, kindergarten teachers, mayors, governors, presidents. What if these are the individuals referred to as 'powers and high places'?

And what we see more than anything else in the world today is an attempt at conformity. We are being manipulated by governments to be 'good citizens'. To 'do' that which we are 'trained' to do for the betterment of the 'whole'. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". Is it really that difficult to see just how easily such a mantra could be used to turn one away from the truth and towards a 'worldly goal'?

We are warned that the 'judges of this world' are 'worldly judges'. If it was that way during the time of Christ, imagine how much more so today than then. For nothing has gotten in the way of such change. If anything, greed for wealth and power has increased instead of decreased. And there is no greater influence on this earth than wealth and power. When we read the Bible we can clearly see the examples offered where even those devoted to God have been able to be 'carried away' by their own lusts for wealth and power.

So who close are we really? For it is without any doubt that the closer we get the more the 'falling away' will become fulfilled. Every day closer, the more the 'falling away' will become closer to being manifest. At what point does the 'falling away' become complete?

The Bible tells us that God must 'cut the days short' or even His very elect will be led astray.

If we use the Bible as an example, each time that God has chosen to destroy men, there was only ONE left that God considered 'worthy' to be saved.

Noah, at one point Moses had to appeal to God 'not' to destroy 'the people' and start over with 'just him', Lot. Each of these examples are God saving the 'only' person worthy and destroying the rest.

Will it be any different in the end? Will God destroy the righteous along with the unrighteous in the 'end' of this world as we know it? Not according to the examples we have from the Bible. He will wait till only one or very few exist to 'cut the days short.

So if we are 'very close' to that time, how many can we suppose still exist? How many of God's 'very elect' remain at the present time? And as we speak, wouldn't the concept dictate that every day, some of God's 'very elect' are being 'led astray'?

Blessings,

MEC

Looks like you have been doing some homework and are hot on the trail! My congrats.
One thing I am sure of: God reveals hints about His return but the date is HIDDEN. I think God wants to catch Satan off guard and He also wants us to be surprised like a birthday party. Last Sept there were numerous signs that His return could be then. It was not. It really might be 20-30 more years.

As far as this "falling away" thing. Its happening! God fearing Christians are being duped and manipulated into attitudes that are contrary to the Love of Christ - and they don't even know it. If I mention these things here people will get very angry with me so I won't. But Ill just say that the Letters to the seven churches contains the hints. And losing the love for one another is a major theme. Thoughts of hate and racism in mild forms create strongholds that lead to disaster.

 

[Imagican]

This planet will come to an end in a few billion years, when the sun will expand and engulf it after having exhausted its supply of hydrogen. This does not mean the parousia will not transpire before this point, so perhaps Terra will not have the opportunity to be destroyed in that manner.

See? Like I've said before, you and I have quite a bit in common outside of 'trinity'.

I don't know about the 'time' for so far science hasn't been able to determine anything associated with 'time' when it comes to a 'star' loosing it's cohesion, but all indications from the Bible is this is 'exactly' how this earth will be destroyed.

But the Bible indicates that the destruction of this earth will happen much sooner than 'billions' of years. So far as we are able to discern, our Sun could go 'nova' at 'any time'. But I am in utter agreement that when it does, this earth will be 'melted' and return back into it's original elements.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Good OP



If that were even possible. But the days of Lot metric is no longer in play. Right now we're waiting for the rebels to become completely wicked. We're waiting for the transgressors to reach their limit, to run their course and fill up their cup. Then a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise.

It's too bad Ward Cleaver isn't around today so that we could ask what he thinks about this:

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/map-same-sex-marriage/

We're closer than ever before.

English Standard Version
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

New International Version
"In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise.

New Living Translation
"At the end of their rule, when their sin is at its height, a fierce king, a master of intrigue, will rise to power.

English Standard Version
And at the latter end of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their limit, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise.

New American Standard Bible
"In the latter period of their rule, When the transgressors have run their course, A king will arise, Insolent and skilled in intrigue.

King James Bible
And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.​

Interesting post.

Yes, I believe that it's pretty clear we're close. In time. Regardless of whether it's 'today' or 'a hundred years' from now, compared to the 'time of man' which has already passed, we are most certainly 'on the edge'.

All one need do is consider 'just how evil' this world has become. How much more will God endure before bringing it to an 'end'?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Wgw]

See? Like I've said before, you and I have quite a bit in common outside of 'trinity'.

I don't know about the 'time' for so far science hasn't been able to determine anything associated with 'time' when it comes to a 'star' loosing it's cohesion, but all indications from the Bible is this is 'exactly' how this earth will be destroyed.

But the Bible indicates that the destruction of this earth will happen much sooner than 'billions' of years. So far as we are able to discern, our Sun could go 'nova' at 'any time'. But I am in utter agreement that when it does, this earth will be 'melted' and return back into it's original elements.

Blessings,

MEC

Our sun won't explode; it's not massive enough. Rather it will swell in size; it won't be a red giant, but it will be larger than it is now. This expansion will be gradual rather than violent.

There is nothing however to preclude the continuation of humanity elsewhere, however. If we colonize the far reaches of the universe, the end of the world becomes the eventual heat death of the universe; new star formation will generally cease roughly 100 trillion years in the future; in a quadrillion years, there will be nothing but black holes, and in a quintillion years, nothing except undifferentiated photons.

Now that's rather a dashed long time in the future, and of God makes us wait that long for the eschaton we might well not unjustifiably complain about the well nigh interminable delay. To which God might not unjustifiably respond "What's a quintillion years in the face of eternity?"

 

[Wgw]

See? Like I've said before, you and I have quite a bit in common outside of 'trinity'.

I don't know about the 'time' for so far science hasn't been able to determine anything associated with 'time' when it comes to a 'star' loosing it's cohesion, but all indications from the Bible is this is 'exactly' how this earth will be destroyed.

But the Bible indicates that the destruction of this earth will happen much sooner than 'billions' of years. So far as we are able to discern, our Sun could go 'nova' at 'any time'. But I am in utter agreement that when it does, this earth will be 'melted' and return back into it's original elements.

Blessings,

MEC

By the way, I will note that to the extent we differ on the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, the holy Orthodox church and so on, I lament with some bitterness, in that you are one of my favourite members to debate with; your arguments on other things tend to be spot-on.

 

[Imagican]

Looks like you have been doing some homework and are hot on the trail! My congrats.
One thing I am sure of: God reveals hints about His return but the date is HIDDEN. I think God wants to catch Satan off guard and He also wants us to be surprised like a birthday party. Last Sept there were numerous signs that His return could be then. It was not. It really might be 20-30 more years.

As far as this "falling away" thing. Its happening! God fearing Christians are being duped and manipulated into attitudes that are contrary to the Love of Christ - and they don't even know it. If I mention these things here people will get very angry with me so I won't. But Ill just say that the Letters to the seven churches contains the hints. And losing the love for one another is a major theme. Thoughts of hate and racism in mild forms create strongholds that lead to disaster.

How about this for a 'concept'?

Perhaps God Himself hasn't chosen the exact 'time'. Perhaps it's more about 'events' than a specific 'time'. And perhaps the 'event' is when He can no longer endure that which is 'breaking His heart'.

When all but a 'few' have turned away from Him and it's 'time' to put us out of our misery as a 'group'.

And the reason that an exact 'time' can't be revealed is because that 'time' is unknown, even to God.

Kind of like us. It's very difficult to name a 'time' when we will make certain decisions. Like saying, "One of these days, I'm going to stop putting up with something". Who knows the 'time' one will make the actual decision.

So maybe He's waiting till He can't 'put up with it any longer'. And that's not a 'date' until the decision is made.

And I agree. The reason that we were 'created' in the first place was so that God could share His love with us and that we could share our love with Him and each other. That we have failed to learn this will ultimate lead to our destruction.

For it would seem that instead of learning to love and practice it has become less and less demonstrated by 'this world'. It would seem that we have become more and more 'lovers of ourselves' rather than God or each other.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Wgw]

How about this for a 'concept'?

Perhaps God Himself hasn't chosen the exact 'time'. Perhaps it's more about 'events' than a specific 'time'. And perhaps the 'event' is when He can no longer endure that which is 'breaking His heart'.

When all but a 'few' have turned away from Him and it's 'time' to put us out of our misery as a 'group'.

And the reason that an exact 'time' can't be revealed is because that 'time' is unknown, even to God.

Kind of like us. It's very difficult to name a 'time' when we will make certain decisions. Like saying, "One of these days, I'm going to stop putting up with something". Who knows the 'time' one will make the actual decision.

So maybe He's waiting till He can't 'put up with it any longer'. And that's not a 'date' until the decision is made.

And I agree. The reason that we were 'created' in the first place was so that God could share His love with us and that we could share our love with Him and each other. That we have failed to learn this will ultimate lead to our destruction.

For it would seem that instead of learning to love and practice it has become less and less demonstrated by 'this world'. It would seem that we have become more and more 'lovers of ourselves' rather than God or each other.

Blessings,

MEC

I like this argument, although I would also note that unless we want to get sucked into the madness of process theology, we should preserve a proper respect for divine omniscience. So on one level, God has to know, but on the other hand, He respects free will.

 

[cgaviria]

The Bible informs us that upon Christ's return, this earth is going to be transformed into a 'different world'.

When asked about the 'time' of His return, Christ stated that only the Father knew the 'time'.

But, there were signs that would take place to let us know when the 'time' was near. Christ described these 'signs' that would take place before He would return.

It would appear that almost everything He predicted that would 'happen first' have already taken place.

Does this mean that we are 'very close' to the 'time' of His return?

If so, then one of the 'things' described as 'happening first' is that the 'world' would be followers of something other than the truth. It states that there 'must come a falling away first'.

What is the 'falling away'? Certainly it isn't a 'falling away from religion' or a 'falling away from faith', for these things would endure no matter what. They always have been an integral part of the existence of man, so it must be something else.

It is my belief that the reference is to 'truth'. That directly before the return of Christ, mankind will have 'fallen away' from the 'truth'. Following truth of their own design instead of the 'truth' as delivered by God through prophet, His own Son and the apostles.

So, if what I have offered is the truth, then that would mean if we are 'closer than every' to the 'time' of Christ's return, the 'falling away' must have already begun and be nearing it's completion.

Now, the important question would be: 'What is the 'source' of the influence of the 'falling away'. What will 'lead' men to follow their own truth rather than that offered by God through His messengers?

It's pretty obvious.

Satan.

Satan has one goal and that one goal is what he's been working towards for thousands upon thousands of years.

Satan wants to 'be God'. And the only way that he can fulfill that goal is to have men worship him as God.

That means that Satan has been working towards turning men away from the truth and to follow him instead of God for thousands of years.

There are many in this world that do not 'worship any specific God'. Satan already owns those souls. No need to exert specific influence on these for they are already following that which leads them to worship him even if indirectly.

Those that Satan would exert the most energy towards would be those that still possess some 'truth' that has been delivered by God through His messengers. Turning those away from the truth of God and directing them to worship him as God instead.

That is what I believe the 'falling away' to be. Satan replacing God's truth with his truth and convincing men that it is 'their own'. Teaching men to teach each other that he is God and bringing them to bow to him instead of God.

A tricky question: If one did not 'know' God, if Satan pretended to be God, how would one 'know' the difference? In other words, if Satan is capable of 'lying wonders' and miracles, how does one 'know' how to distinguish the difference between his miracles and lying wonders from the Spirit of God?

And if Satan has introduced a 'false Christ', how does one 'know' the difference between Satan's 'false Christ' and the 'true Christ'? If Satan is able to mimic the true Christ, how does one distinguish the difference between the Son of God and the Son of Satan?

And what if? What IF Satan is able to offer more 'sensual feelings' than those offered by God? What if he is able to appeal to the flesh in a manner that God would never attempt? And what if that is what men desire more than that which is Spiritual: that which is sensual?

Understand, we do not battle against 'flesh' but against evil influence in high places. Those that have the ability to alter the perceptions of this world in a profound manner. Those in POWER to control what we are exposed to the most.

Media, the churches, schools, governments, political and social leaders, doctors, lawyers, the courts and judges. What if 'all' those in a place of power are being manipulated by Satan in order to influence the rest of us. University professors, kindergarten teachers, mayors, governors, presidents. What if these are the individuals referred to as 'powers and high places'?

And what we see more than anything else in the world today is an attempt at conformity. We are being manipulated by governments to be 'good citizens'. To 'do' that which we are 'trained' to do for the betterment of the 'whole'. "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". Is it really that difficult to see just how easily such a mantra could be used to turn one away from the truth and towards a 'worldly goal'?

We are warned that the 'judges of this world' are 'worldly judges'. If it was that way during the time of Christ, imagine how much more so today than then. For nothing has gotten in the way of such change. If anything, greed for wealth and power has increased instead of decreased. And there is no greater influence on this earth than wealth and power. When we read the Bible we can clearly see the examples offered where even those devoted to God have been able to be 'carried away' by their own lusts for wealth and power.

So who close are we really? For it is without any doubt that the closer we get the more the 'falling away' will become fulfilled. Every day closer, the more the 'falling away' will become closer to being manifest. At what point does the 'falling away' become complete?

The Bible tells us that God must 'cut the days short' or even His very elect will be led astray.

If we use the Bible as an example, each time that God has chosen to destroy men, there was only ONE left that God considered 'worthy' to be saved.

Noah, at one point Moses had to appeal to God 'not' to destroy 'the people' and start over with 'just him', Lot. Each of these examples are God saving the 'only' person worthy and destroying the rest.

Will it be any different in the end? Will God destroy the righteous along with the unrighteous in the 'end' of this world as we know it? Not according to the examples we have from the Bible. He will wait till only one or very few exist to 'cut the days short.

So if we are 'very close' to that time, how many can we suppose still exist? How many of God's 'very elect' remain at the present time? And as we speak, wouldn't the concept dictate that every day, some of God's 'very elect' are being 'led astray'?

Blessings,

MEC

This heaven and earth will last 7,000 years, which is the wisdom of why God created the heavens and earth in 7 days, to foreshadow this truth. The last 1,000 years correspond to the millennial kingdom, which is also the sabbath rest of the entire earth. Don't listen to anyone else that tells you that this heaven and earth will last billions of years, or that it has existed for millions of years, this is complete and utter nonsense. Even according to the Jewish calendar, we are in the year 5776, so however accurate this calendar is from the exact year of creation, we are certainly close to that commencement of the thousand year sabbath.

 

[parousia70]

When asked about the 'time' of His return, Christ stated that only the Father knew the 'time'.

But, there were signs that would take place to let us know when the 'time' was near. Christ described these 'signs' that would take place before He would return.

So did the Apostles misread the times they were in when the proclaimed 1900+ years ago that it was then "near, at hand about to take place and must shortly come to pass"?

IF Christ gave them signs specifically to know when it was near, why did they then proclaim it was near if they didn't see the signs?

If the Inspired Apostles got it so wrong and were so far off in their assessment of their times, even while writing under the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit, how can anyone today claim with any certainty the relative nearness?

 

[cgaviria]

So did the Apostles misread the times they were in when the proclaimed 1900+ years ago that it was then "near, at hand about to take place and must shortly come to pass"?

IF Christ gave them signs specifically to know when it was near, why did they then proclaim it was near if they didn't see the signs?

If the Inspired Apostles got it so wrong and were so far off in their assessment of their times, even while writing under the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit, how can anyone today claim with any certainty the relative nearness?

Because the coming of Jesus Christ is always near to everyone that has existed since then, because when you die, you are quickly taken to the day of the resurrection because death is as sleep, from the moment of death to the moment of resurrection it feels nearly instant, just as when you fall asleep till you wake up. So the coming of the Lord is always near to everyone, whether you are actually alive to see it happen, or whether you are resurrected at his coming, it is always near to everyone.

 

[parousia70]

How about this for a 'concept'?

Perhaps God Himself hasn't chosen the exact 'time'.

Nope.

Acts 17:31
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

 

[parousia70]

because death is as sleep, from the moment of death to the moment of resurrection it feels nearly instant, just as when you fall asleep till you wake up.

The sleep analogy doesn't work, for just last night I had a series of dreams I thought would never end... felt like an eternity between the time I fell asleep and the time I woke up, and it was only 6.5 hours.

 

[cgaviria]

The sleep analogy doesn't work, for just last night I had a series of dreams I thought would never end... felt like an eternity between the time I fell asleep and the time I woke up, and it was only 6.5 hours.

That still doesn't refute the wisdom behind why God created "sleep". Its to foreshadow death. Even in scripture, many of those that have died are said to "sleep". Its because sleep was made to foreshadow death.

 

[parousia70]

, it is always near to everyone.

So what was Christ's point when He said this?:

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

If it's always near, why would Christ need to give any signs?

 

[parousia70]

That still doesn't refute the wisdom behind why God created "sleep". Its to foreshadow death. Even in scripture, many of those that have died are said to "sleep". Its because sleep was made to foreshadow death.

So we "dream" between the time we die and the resurrection?

 

[cgaviria]

So what was Christ's point when He said this?:

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

If it's always near, why would Christ need to give any signs?

Because obviously the signs of the proximity of his coming will be evident to those who are living, meanwhile those who are dead wont perceive the passing of time to that day.