How can you be against abortion but for the death penalty?

[HermanNeutics13]

Abortion takes innocent life. The death penalty is meant to take guilty life. That distinction is what is important. However my issue is that he death penalty sometimes does take innocent life anyway, even if that is not the intention. SO in practice I oppose it for that reason. So it is not hypocritical to oppose abortion but support the death penalty, it is however hypocritical to support abortion and oppose the death penalty.

 

[disciple1]

Abortion takes innocent life. The death penalty is meant to take guilty life. That distinction is what is important. However my issue is that he death penalty sometimes does take innocent life anyway, even if that is not the intention. SO in practice I oppose it for that reason. So it is not hypocritical to oppose abortion but support the death penalty, it is however hypocritical to support abortion and oppose the death penalty.

1 Corinthians chapter 4

5 So don’t judge anything before the appointed time. Wait until the Lord returns. He will bring to light what is hidden in the dark. He will show the real reasons why people do what they do. At that time each person will receive their praise from God.

 

[nomadictheist]

Hi everyone. I have noticed over the years that a lot of people who are pro-life are also for the death penalty. Why is this? If you are for the preserving of one life then why are you for the destruction of another? Wouldn't it be more consistent to be against both abortion and capital punishment?

Now, don't get me wrong, I definitely believe that abortion is murder. However, I see the death penalty as more of a form of revenge than a form of justice and the Bible clearly tells us not to seek revenge:

Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God; for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord." No, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
(Romans 12:19-21 RSV-CE)

I also realize that the unborn are innocent of sin except for original sin while those condemned to death are guilty of actual sin.

Also, the Bible says to love your enemies:

But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
(Matthew 5:44-45 RSV-CE)

So how is putting a criminal to death loving them? I mean all law abiding citizens could say that criminals are enemies of society. So how is putting them to death loving them? Wouldn't it be more loving to let them live their whole life in prison? At least then they have more time to repent of their evil deeds.

This is not to mention the fact that there have been innocent people put to death by capital punishment. It has happened before and it could easily happen again.

Also, I personally see capital punishment as cruel and unusual punishment. Doesn't the Constitution or some other law forbid cruel and unusual punishment?

I think you're omitting several important Bible verses:

Romans 13:
1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

Governments are there to punish evildoers. You can't compare the death penalty to abortion for 3 reasons:

1. The process is different
a. The death penalty requires conviction of murder with intent at a trial in which the accused has the right to legal defense, 12 unbiased, randomly chosen people deliberate on all evidence presented by both the prosecution and defense, and the judge determines the penalty based on the jury's findings.
b. The decision to murder a baby requires only a greater desire to not carry the baby to term than to carry the baby to term. The decision is made by one person, and there is no legal or judicial process involved.

2. The people handing down punishment are different.
a. The death penalty is administered by a government figure with the authority of the government, who we know from Paul and Peter is appointed by God for such tasks, and are restricted from administering the death penalty to anyone who has not undergone the trial, judgment, and appeals process.
b. Abortion is administered by abortion doctors, who are not restricted from murdering babies for any reason (except if the baby has passed a certain point in development).

3. The view taken of them in the Bible is different.
a. The death penalty is actually commanded by God in the OT for various crimes. These include (but are not limited to) murder, adultery, and taking the life of an unborn child.
b. The only passage in the Bible that speaks specifically to unborn children requires that if a man strikes a woman who is pregnant, when the child comes to term any damage done to the baby is to be done to the man who struck her - including life for life. And, of course, there is the command not to murder, which killing an unborn baby definitely violates.

 

[disciple1]

I think you're omitting several important Bible verses:

Romans 13:
1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

Governments are there to punish evildoers. You can't compare the death penalty to abortion for 3 reasons:

1. The process is different
a. The death penalty requires conviction of murder with intent at a trial in which the accused has the right to legal defense, 12 unbiased, randomly chosen people deliberate on all evidence presented by both the prosecution and defense, and the judge determines the penalty based on the jury's findings.
b. The decision to murder a baby requires only a greater desire to not carry the baby to term than to carry the baby to term. The decision is made by one person, and there is no legal or judicial process involved.

2. The people handing down punishment are different.
a. The death penalty is administered by a government figure with the authority of the government, who we know from Paul and Peter is appointed by God for such tasks, and are restricted from administering the death penalty to anyone who has not undergone the trial, judgment, and appeals process.
b. Abortion is administered by abortion doctors, who are not restricted from murdering babies for any reason (except if the baby has passed a certain point in development).

3. The view taken of them in the Bible is different.
a. The death penalty is actually commanded by God in the OT for various crimes. These include (but are not limited to) murder, adultery, and taking the life of an unborn child.
b. The only passage in the Bible that speaks specifically to unborn children requires that if a man strikes a woman who is pregnant, when the child comes to term any damage done to the baby is to be done to the man who struck her - including life for life. And, of course, there is the command not to murder, which killing an unborn baby definitely violates.

I'm neither for or against abortion, I don't know if it's right or wrong they didn't have it in Jesus's time.
Psalm 139 verse 16
Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
Was the aborted baby not ordained any days, god's more powerful than a doctor.
And also sperm is alive so how far do you take it, if you have sex a don't produce a baby you've killed the sperm.
All I say is I don't know.

 

[nomadictheist]

I'm neither for or against abortion, I don't know if it's right or wrong they didn't have it in Jesus's time.
Psalm 139 verse 16
Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
Was the aborted baby not ordained any days, god's more powerful than a doctor.
And also sperm is alive so how far do you take it, if you have sex a don't produce a baby you've killed the sperm.
All I say is I don't know.

"Is God more powerful?" is an irrelevant question. Is God more powerful than the mass murderer? Than the rapist? Than the serial killer? Than the dictator that commits genocide? Should we stop saying that these things are evil because God doesn't stop them?

The relevant question is, what does God say about life. Who has the right to alter the natural course of life other than God, and for what reason?

Also, the "sperm is alive" is not a valid argument, because the sperm is not a human being. Once the sperm has fertilized an egg and a new human being is formed, taking it upon yourself to kill that human being at any point is murder.

Psalm 139 vs. 16 is not an excuse for abortion - in fact, it is, perhaps, one of its most weighty accusers.

There is a specific place in the Bible where instructions are contained for those that injure/kill unborn children, and those instructions require "limb for limb, and life for life..."

 

[Radrook]

I'm neither for or against abortion the bible doesn't say one way or another.
1 Corinthians chapter 4
3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court. I don’t even judge myself. 4 I don’t feel I have done anything wrong. But that doesn’t mean I’m not guilty. The Lord judges me. 5 So don’t judge anything before the appointed time. Wait until the Lord returns. He will bring to light what is hidden in the dark. He will show the real reasons why people do what they do. At that time each person will receive their praise from God.

Psalm 139 verse 16
Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
And how can you be for the death penalty when you might keep some one from repentance.
Romans chapter 2 verse 4
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

Understanding of scripture requires that they be viewed in the light of context, not just the immediate written context-but the entire biblical context as well. If we don't do so, then we will perceive the Bible as constantly contradicting itself and emerge with absolutely no clue of what its definite position is on crucial moral issues. When the Apostle Paul states that he doesn't dare to judge we have to study his other writing in order to understated what he meant. For example, we find him judging behavior as either evil or righteous throughout all his letters to the churches. He advises them not to steal, commit adultery, worship idols etcetera because he judges or evaluates them as sinful.

Paul also repeatedly warns us about the wrath of God coming upon unrepentant sinners.
He condemns those who are offered the Gospel reject it in favor of returning to worldly conduct. He judges certain behavior as being the fruit of the flesh or carnal as opposed to righteous behavior which he classifies as the fruit of the spirit. So he definitely has views concerning behavior and those views are based on his judgment those behaviors as right or wrong. So when we read the Scripture you quote we cannot understand it as telling us never to evaluate or judge a behavior but simply consider it neutral.

What he means by not judging is to avoid presumptuously assuming the role of God as the ultimate judge of oneself and others. People tend to do this by claiming to know the fate of others. I have repeatedly observed Christians proclaiming the destruction of others simply based on denominational preferences. Classifying them as goats and worthy of destruction at Armageddon without given even a moment's thought concerning their sincerity,upbringing, mental status, education or any other issue that might have caused them to choose to worship God in the manner that they prefer.

As to abortion not being specifically mentioned, please note that principles of behavior can be established without going into specifics. One way is to provide examples. Jesus used many examples to illustrate how we should view other humans. The Prodigal Son, the Unforgiving servant, the man who materialistically hoards treasures on earth. All have the purpose of teaching us a lesson. The same applies to the mention of two men struggling and an unborn life being lost as a consequence followed by the demand that life go for life.

That is the way I understand it.
But you are of course free to understand as you wish.

 

[nomadictheist]

<staff edit>

If sperm is left to follow the natural course, it will be expelled from the body and die.

If a baby is left to follow the natural course, it will grow into a fully-developed human being.

Sperm may be biologically alive, but it is not a life. A life starts when the sperm fertilizes the egg at conception. There's a difference between something that's alive (such as every cell in your body) and a life.

 

[disciple1]

Understanding of scripture requires that they be viewed in the light of context, not just the immediate written context-but the entire biblical context as well. If we don't do so, then we will perceive the Bible as constantly contradicting itself and emerge with absolutely no clue of what its definite position is on crucial moral issues. When the Apostle Paul states that he doesn't dare to judge we have to study his other writing in order to understated what he meant. For example, we find him judging behavior as either evil or righteous throughout all his letters to the churches. He advises them not to steal, commit adultery, worship idols etcetera because he judges or evaluates them as sinful.

Paul also repeatedly warns us about the wrath of God coming upon unrepentant sinners.
He condemns those who are offered the Gospel reject it in favor of returning to worldly conduct. He judges certain behavior as being the fruit of the flesh or carnal as opposed to righteous behavior which he classifies as the fruit of the spirit. So he definitely has views concerning behavior and those views are based on his judgment those behaviors as right or wrong. So when we read the Scripture you quote we cannot understand it as telling us never to evaluate or judge a behavior but simply consider it neutral.

What he means by not judging is to avoid presumptuously assuming the role of God as the ultimate judge of oneself and others. People tend to do this by claiming to know the fate of others. I have repeatedly observed Christians proclaiming the destruction of others simply based on denominational preferences. Classifying them as goats and worthy of destruction at Armageddon without given even a moment's thought concerning their sincerity,upbringing, mental status, education or any other issue that might have caused them to choose to worship God in the manner that they prefer.

As to abortion not being specifically mentioned, please note that principles of behavior can be established without going into specifics. One way is to provide examples. Jesus used many examples to illustrate how we should view other humans. The Prodigal Son, the Unforgiving servant, the man who materialistically hoards treasures on earth. All have the purpose of teaching us a lesson. The same applies to the mention of two men struggling and an unborn life being lost as a consequence followed by the demand that life go for life.

That is the way I understand it.
But you are of course free to understand as you wish.

Where are your bible verses I'm not for or against you seem to want to prove it to me, I need bible verses.

Psalm 139 verse 16
Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

 

[LostMarbels]

I have to be honest, I have always found this mindset disturbing. Let me explain from my point of view. You believe the death penalty is revenge, while I believe in personal accountability. It is taught in the bible that if a man/woman willfully sins, that sin is punishable by death. Every sin. All of them, not just the 'bad' ones. That is God's judgement. We also find that those who live in the flesh live under the law, and are subject to it, And under God's law the penalty for sin is death.

What I find most disturbing, is that most bleeding hearts have no first hand knowledge of evil. Most think they have had a hard day if traffic is bad, or you forgot to buy starbucks on your way to work. I Am a convicted felon. When I was a teen I got in trouble with the law, and went to prison for 5 years. In county jail, I was bunkmates in a 10 man cell with "The Granny Killer". I slept on the top bunk directly over him. I was woke up on differnt nights to him masturbating to fantasies of his victims. This was a BIG dude. He was violent, angry, and completely devoid of remorse. He scare the <staff edit> out of me.

Edwin Bernard 'Mike' Kaprat and the bad old days of serial killers
Dan DeWitt, Hernando Times Columnist

In 1993, Edwin Bernard “Mike” Kaprat III killed five people.

Victims profile: One man / Sophia Garrity, 80 / Ruth Goldsmith, 70 / Lydia Ridell, 79 / Lorraine Dawe, 87
MO: Beat man to death, 1991; rape-slayer of women age 72-87, killed/burned in their homes, 1993.

The slayings had spread panic through Brooksville, a retirement community 60 miles north of Tampa. Many elderly residents bought handguns and installed alarm systems.

The killings began on Aug. 7, when Sophia Garrity, 80, was found dead in her home. Investigators initially believed that she had died from a fire set off by an electric short.

Investigators also blamed an electrical short when 70-year-old Ruth Goldsmith's burned body was found the next day in her mobile home.

The police began searching for a serial killer after the Sept. 2 death of Mrs. Goldsmith's best friend, 79-year-old Lydia Ridell, and the Sept. 30 death of Mrs. Garrity's elderly neighbor, Loraine Dawe.

The sheriff said Mr. Kaprat confessed to the killings and gave an especially gruesome account of Mrs. Dawe's death.

"He said he stepped on her neck and broke her neck to put her out of her misery because she was having a heart attack" while he sexually assaulted her, Sheriff Mylander said.

Mr. Kaprat was also charged with the attempted murder of a couple in their 80's, William and Alice Whitney.

source: Murderpedia, Hernando Times, Tamapabay.com

These women died horribly, screaming for their lives, unable to defend themselves. And what? I am supposed

to equate this man who rapped, and killed elderly women; with an unborn child? You don't see why that is

sick? The force of 'entry' while he rapped these women broke bones, and tore their vagina. The amount of pain

must have been immense. Then the sheer knowledge for these women to understand this is how they will die.

Being raped, shamed, murdered. Then cast away, and set on fire.


Are you offended? Did I go too far? I think that is the problem. There are some who do not consider the victim.

All we want to talk about is the fluff of this poor convicted person, but we don't consider someone's Mom being

masochistly tortured, and raped for the offenders sexual pleasure. Just think about the survivors, their

families. To sit here and think about my Mom being beaten up. Forcibly raped, bones snapped, and then burnt

in her home; how do you live with that? What do I say to my daughters? My niece, and nephews? What? "Mom

Mom, is in a better place, and we need to forgive that man".................


I say wake up and deal with reality. The life of such people should not be considered of more value than their

victims. I do not shed one tear for this man knowing he was murdered in prison. I cry for the Mom that

lost a son, and the families he destroyed.


Then.... we take this entire sick twisted reality and equate it to an unborn child? Seriously.......

 

[disciple1]

I have to be honest, I have always found this mindset disturbing. Let me explain from my point of view. You believe the death penalty is revenge, while I believe in personal accountability. It is taught in the bible that if a man/woman willfully sins, that sin is punishable by death. Every sin. All of them, not just the 'bad' ones. That is God's judgement. We also find that those who live in the flesh live under the law, and are subject to it, And under God's law the penalty for sin is death.

What I find most disturbing, is that most bleeding hearts have no first hand knowledge of evil. Most think they have had a hard day if traffic is bad, or you forgot to buy starbucks on your way to work. I Am a convicted felon. When I was a teen I got in trouble with the law, and went to prison for 5 years. In county jail, I was bunkmates in a 10 man cell with "The Granny Killer". I slept on the top bunk directly over him. I was woke up on differnt nights to him masturbating to fantasies of his victims. This was a BIG dude. He was violent, angry, and completely devoid of remorse. He scare the hell out of me.

Edwin Bernard 'Mike' Kaprat and the bad old days of serial killers
Dan DeWitt, Hernando Times Columnist

In 1993, Edwin Bernard “Mike” Kaprat III killed five people.

Victims profile: One man / Sophia Garrity, 80 / Ruth Goldsmith, 70 / Lydia Ridell, 79 / Lorraine Dawe, 87
MO: Beat man to death, 1991; rape-slayer of women age 72-87, killed/burned in their homes, 1993.

The slayings had spread panic through Brooksville, a retirement community 60 miles north of Tampa. Many elderly residents bought handguns and installed alarm systems.

The killings began on Aug. 7, when Sophia Garrity, 80, was found dead in her home. Investigators initially believed that she had died from a fire set off by an electric short.

Investigators also blamed an electrical short when 70-year-old Ruth Goldsmith's burned body was found the next day in her mobile home.

The police began searching for a serial killer after the Sept. 2 death of Mrs. Goldsmith's best friend, 79-year-old Lydia Ridell, and the Sept. 30 death of Mrs. Garrity's elderly neighbor, Loraine Dawe.

The sheriff said Mr. Kaprat confessed to the killings and gave an especially gruesome account of Mrs. Dawe's death.

"He said he stepped on her neck and broke her neck to put her out of her misery because she was having a heart attack" while he sexually assaulted her, Sheriff Mylander said.

Mr. Kaprat was also charged with the attempted murder of a couple in their 80's, William and Alice Whitney.

source: Murderpedia, Hernando Times, Tamapabay.com

These women died horribly, screaming for their lives, unable to defend themselves. And what? I am supposed

to equate this man who rapped, and killed elderly women; with an unborn child? You don't see why that is

sick? The force of 'entry' while he rapped these women broke bones, and tore their vagina. The amount of pain

must have been immense. Then the sheer knowledge for these women to understand this is how they will die.

Being raped, shamed, murdered. Then cast away, and set on fire.


Are you offended? Did I go too far? I think that is the problem. There are some who do not consider the victim.

All we want to talk about is the fluff of this poor convicted person, but we don't consider someone's Mom being

masochistly tortured, and raped for the offenders sexual pleasure. Just think about the survivors, their

families. To sit here and think about my Mom being beaten up. Forcibly raped, bones snapped, and then burnt

in her home; how do you live with that? What do I say to my daughters? My niece, and nephews? What? "Mom

Mom, is in a better place, and we need to forgive that man".................


I say wake up and deal with reality. The life of such people should not be considered of more value than their

victims. I do not shed one tear for this man knowing he was murdered in prison. I cry for the Mom that

lost a son, and the families he destroyed.


Then.... we take this entire sick twisted reality and equate it to an unborn child? Seriously.......

Romans chapter 2
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

 

[ScottA]

Hi everyone. I have noticed over the years that a lot of people who are pro-life are also for the death penalty. Why is this? If you are for the preserving of one life then why are you for the destruction of another? Wouldn't it be more consistent to be against both abortion and capital punishment?

Now, don't get me wrong, I definitely believe that abortion is murder. However, I see the death penalty as more of a form of revenge than a form of justice and the Bible clearly tells us not to seek revenge:

Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God; for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord." No, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
(Romans 12:19-21 RSV-CE)

I also realize that the unborn are innocent of sin except for original sin while those condemned to death are guilty of actual sin.

Also, the Bible says to love your enemies:

But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
(Matthew 5:44-45 RSV-CE)

So how is putting a criminal to death loving them? I mean all law abiding citizens could say that criminals are enemies of society. So how is putting them to death loving them? Wouldn't it be more loving to let them live their whole life in prison? At least then they have more time to repent of their evil deeds.

This is not to mention the fact that there have been innocent people put to death by capital punishment. It has happened before and it could easily happen again.

Also, I personally see capital punishment as cruel and unusual punishment. Doesn't the Constitution or some other law forbid cruel and unusual punishment?

There is a time for preserving life, and a time for taking it away. There is no "revenge" in "subduing the earth" and all that is in it, even unto death.

And while I am at it: that means birth control is okay too.

 

[LostMarbels]

Romans chapter 2
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

#1. the OP is: How can you be against abortion but for the death penalty?
I Was answering along those lines, in accordance to the op. The death penalty, and abortions are 2 totally differnt beasts. In Order to equate the 2 one must compare evil with innocence. (my font is not listening to me... sorry) Trying to compare sending convicted person to their execution to ending a pregnancy is not at all an accurate comparison.

#2. Religiosity. We can all sit here and pick scriptures to make our point seem valid, but that is not reality, nor is it responsible as a Christian to endanger our families.

Example: Convicted child predator Joe Shmoe has just been released from prison and now lives next door to your family. The media is all over it and you know he has served 20 years for sexualy molesting, and rapping 6 girls under the age of 12. You have a 6, and a 9 year old daughter. Are you worried?

Religious response: Of course not that would be wrong. He's just like any other of my neighbors. Jesus Loves him.

You soon notice that everyday Joe is walking his dog while the school bus is dropping off your daughters. He likes to greet the kids and let them play with his dogs. Recently he walked your 2 girls home to the driveway. Does this alarm you?

Religious response: He is just walking his dog. You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. The past is the past.....

My point: This is neither a responsible, nor a Christian response to the situation. God does not intend you to allow your children to be the next victim of a child predator. For you to allow it to happen, is just as bad as the individual committing the act.

#3. Proper judgement. You need to understand 2 things from the start. 1 Joe, is a threat to your children, and 2 Joe needs Jesus, and or counseling. That is judgement. It is also called discernment. make an opportunity to meet Joe. Offer your friendship, even ask him to go to church with you, not your family..... just you. Be Christian and love him. HOWEVER have the sound judgement of discernment to understand he is a threat to your children.

Call his probation officer. Inform them of your situation as his nextdoor neighbor. Ask them his conditions of probation. Get with your neighbors and make sure there is always 1 trusted adult at the bus stop when the kids get dropped off. Make sure your daughters are aware that: "JOE IS A STRANGER, and not like our other neighbors like Jimmy's dad or ect... ect. You are not to go to his house or play with his dogs for any reason."

So far... I have judged this man as not safe, and not fit to be around my daughters. I am willing to associate with him, take him to all male bible study and/or church. Be involved in rehab and his probation. So how am I doing? I still will never trust him with a child.

That is the difference from a knee jerk religious response and a Dad being responsible with his children in a Christian way.

 

[classicalhero]

The OT instruct both for us to love our neighbor as ourselves and to carry out the death penalty for certain crimes, so these are not at odds with each other. Love does not withhold justice.

That is by far the best response. A society without consequences for actions is not a loving society since that allows evil to not be punished. When evil is allowed to roam free everyone is at risk.

@disciple1 The ancients did know about abortion, it's not nothing new. If you read the Hippocratic oath you will see that it references abortion in a negative light saying that a doctor shouldn't perform one. Also you should read the Didache and what it teaches about abortions. All early Christians without distinction condemned abortion, there is imply no reason why anyone who calls them self a Christian should be for abortion and should be solidly against it.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Hi everyone. I have noticed over the years that a lot of people who are pro-life are also for the death penalty. Why is this? If you are for the preserving of one life then why are you for the destruction of another? Wouldn't it be more consistent to be against both abortion and capital punishment?

Now, don't get me wrong, I definitely believe that abortion is murder. However, I see the death penalty as more of a form of revenge than a form of justice and the Bible clearly tells us not to seek revenge:

Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God; for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord." No, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals upon his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
(Romans 12:19-21 RSV-CE)

I also realize that the unborn are innocent of sin except for original sin while those condemned to death are guilty of actual sin.

Also, the Bible says to love your enemies:

But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
(Matthew 5:44-45 RSV-CE)

So how is putting a criminal to death loving them? I mean all law abiding citizens could say that criminals are enemies of society. So how is putting them to death loving them? Wouldn't it be more loving to let them live their whole life in prison? At least then they have more time to repent of their evil deeds.

This is not to mention the fact that there have been innocent people put to death by capital punishment. It has happened before and it could easily happen again.

Also, I personally see capital punishment as cruel and unusual punishment. Doesn't the Constitution or some other law forbid cruel and unusual punishment?

Let's see here.....murdering the innocent......executing the guilty.......innocent......guilty.....yep, easy decision.........

 

[Four Angels Standing]

I don't believe someone can be for life and for the death penalty at the same time.
There is criminal injustice in the system of laws we have in place now in America. One has but to read the headlines that report a wrongly convicted inmate being released due to new evidence. Especially telling are those who were on death row.

The conflict , the hypocrisy, in proponents of the death penalty who avow they're pro-life, is they're saying they're against a woman's right to choose for her own womb. Meanwhile, once born people are on their own. And deserve to die when the laws give permission for a state prison authorized to kill them.

And what of those wrongly convicted dead? Presumed to tally when we have exonerated people in the news now. At least if someone is sentenced to live in prison, if they're wrongly convicted they're alive so as to be saved from that wretched hell on earth. They're given a chance to live free. Which is something the wrongly , criminally in the case of killing an innocent victim of the system, does not have.
The death penalty does indeed make murderers of us all.
I can't be pro-life and then say I'm all in favor of killing someone as long as someone else says it's legal.

 

[Four Angels Standing]

It's got nothing to do with a name, you just haven't mentioned a single bible verse.

Abortion: Exodus 20:13
Death Penalty:Romans 12:19

 

[dogs4thewin]

I personally oppose both. However, I guess because in abortion the person never had a chance to live where the death penalty the person (supposedly) made choices that led to his or her being sentenced to death.

 

[dogs4thewin]

<staff edit> it is most certainly a choice to pull the trigger and kill someone ( particularly in cold blood). Whereas a baby does not make the choice to be conceived.

 

[Truthfrees]

MOD HAT ON

Please stay on topic as per the OP.

Please do not promote abortion as per CF rules.

If your post is missing it's for these reasons.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[dentonz]

Both are murder in my eyes. Killing unborn babies is obviously evil. Killing bad people for sins they commit seems good on the surface, but it's murder. You used almost every point I would make. If we kill someone who hasn't been redeemed, we are responsible for sending them to Hell, and their blood is on our hands.

The last part of your statement , I believe, is completely backwards. The person committing the offense has their own blood on their hands.