How abortion advocates use lies and diceit to advance their agenda.

[PapaZoom]

the label "pro-choice" is specifically designed to mislead at what is really the issue: abortion - which is simply said, the killing of an unborn human being. Choice? After all, who can be against a person making personal "health care" choices (another lie)? By saying you're pro-choice you can hide behind this much more palatable term. But the bottom line is that if you're pro-choice, you either are in tacit approval of killing the unborn or an outright advocate (or somewhere in between). Calling yourself pro-choice helps you to avoid the moral considerations of what abortion really is: killing an unborn human being - at any stage of development. This is the first lie of abortion advocates. It's not about choice.

I'm anti-abortion. I oppose abortion for any reason other than a real-physical-life threat to the mother. I oppose abortion in rape and incest cases (because my pro-life view is consistent) and in all other cases. But if the life of the mother is truly in jeopardy, an abortion should be allowed. Why this position if I'm pro-life? Because I am pro-life! And the life of the mother matters. And I'm NOT talking about her quality of life. I'm talking about preventing her death.

I wish abortion advocate would be as honest about their position. They are in favor, at the very least, of letting a woman decide whether to kill the unborn human being that is living inside her. It's not about "choice" of an ice cream flavor or a color dress to wear or which house to buy. In most (if not all) areas of a woman's life, nearly all people are pro-choice. So if you call yourself pro-choice, just be honest about what the "choice" is about: killing the unborn. If you claim to be pro-choice but refuse to admit that it also means you approve of the killing of the unborn, then you are disingenuous at best and an outright liar at worst. There are no other choices for you.

I have much, much more I can show on how pro-abortion folks are a dishonest lot. And maybe this doesn't apply fully to some of you, but to the abortion lobby, those that really hold the power in this issue, it fully applies. In your individual cases, you have to decide if the shoe fits. Just be honest about your position. You're either for abortion, or against it.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

the label "pro-choice" is specifically designed to mislead at what is really the issue: abortion - which is simply said, the killing of an unborn human being.

You keep saying that, but it keeps not being true. A fetus is just a blob of tissue. Scrape, scrape, flush, flush... no more blob of tissue (though it's generally done with a pill these days).

Just be honest about your position. You're either for abortion, or against it.

The choice is between having that unwanted tissue scraped away or allowing it to become a baby. That's as honest as it comes.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I am massively against abortion in all cases. I mean, if it is like you said and a woman's life was at risk, I still would be against abortion.

Let me explain why,

I personally think, that if I was a woman I'd rather die than kill my child. I know, I as a man and potential father some day, would die for my child in the same case. If I had aborted my child and lived, I would have suffered from eternal guilt and I think I'd rather die with my baby than kill my own child. Just, my opinion.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

Calling yourself pro-choice helps you to avoid the moral considerations of what abortion really is: killing an unborn human being - at any stage of development. This is the first lie of abortion advocates. It's not about choice

You've got it backwards. People who already consider a fetus to be a baby are usually against abortion. People who already consider a fetus to be a blob of tissue don't usually have a problem with abortion.

Nobody except a eugenist is likely to be pro-abortion.

 

[PapaZoom]

You keep saying that, but it keeps not being true. A fetus is just a blob of tissue. Scrape, scrape, flush, flush... no more blob of tissue (though it's generally done with a pill these days).


The choice is between having that unwanted tissue scraped away or allowing it to become a baby. That's as honest as it comes.

Thanks for bringing this one up. It's on my list of lies told by abortion advocates. I can take this one off.

Just a blob of tissue.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

Thanks for bringing this one up. It's on my list of lies told by abortion advocates. I can take this one off.

Just a blob of tissue.

Yes, it's just a blob of tissue. Glad to have been able to help educate you.

 

[PapaZoom]

You've got it backwards. People who already consider a fetus to be a baby are usually against abortion. People who already consider a fetus to be a blob of tissue don't usually have a problem with abortion.

Nobody except a eugenist is likely to be pro-abortion.

I like the denials. They help prove my point.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

I like the denials. They help prove my point.

You don't have a point. It's just lie this and lie that. People don't wake up believing one thing, then decide to lie to themselves.

 

[PapaZoom]

I am massively against abortion in all cases. I mean, if it is like you said and a woman's life was at risk, I still would be against abortion.

Let me explain why,

I personally think, that if I was a woman I'd rather die than kill my child. I know, I as a man and potential father some day, would die for my child in the same case. If I had aborted my child and lived, I would have suffered from eternal guilt and I think I'd rather die with my baby than kill my own child. Just, my opinion.

I've heard many women testify to the same thing. Even in the case where the mother's life is at serious risk, abortion still kills an unborn human being. So in that respect, I agree with you.

 

[PapaZoom]

You don't have a point. It's just lie this and lie that. People don't wake up believing one thing, then decide to lie to themselves.

Sure, and as a Christian you have no conscience problems with killing the unborn. I know plenty of people like you. I say you are deceived. But that's just me. And millions of other people. And science. And the church. But don't let that stop you.

 

[Cearbhall]

the label "pro-choice" is specifically designed to mislead at what is really the issue: abortion - which is simply said, the killing of an unborn human being. Choice?

I wouldn't say that "pro-life" is very accurate for the other side of the coin, but I don't see a problem with "pro-choice."

 

[PapaZoom]

I wouldn't say that "pro-life" is very accurate for the other side of the coin, but I don't see a problem with "pro-choice."

Fine. Then tell me what they are actually pro-choice about.

 

[Cearbhall]

Fine. Then tell me what they are actually pro-choice about.

The decision of whether or not to sustain another human life using one's own body. I'm also in favor of keeping organ donation voluntary.

If you want to make abortion illegal, I would recommend prioritizing getting the law changed so that corpses can be harvested for organs without the permission of the individual or his/her family. That would be a much less radical redefining of bodily autonomy and would save a lot of lives. However, if you're not interested in doing that, then I can't imagine why you care about abortion.

 

[PapaZoom]

Okie dokie, then. I'll not return the favor, though, since I'm sure that you'll post some sort of "scientific proof" for your position soon. I'd hate not being there to demolish it.

Just because you write your opinion doesn't mean that it's true. You are at odds with the science of embryology.

 

[PapaZoom]

The decision of whether or not to sustain another human life using one's own body. I'm also in favor of keeping organ donation voluntary.

If you want to make abortion illegal, I would recommend prioritizing getting the law changed so that corpses can be harvested for organs without the permission of the individual or his/her family. That would be a much less radical redefining of bodily autonomy and would save a lot of lives. However, if you're not interested in doing that, then I can't imagine why you care about abortion.

ok, so then you agree that abortion is about the killing of an unborn human being...

 

[Cearbhall]

ok, so then you agree that abortion is about the killing of an unborn human being...

If by that you mean homo sapiens (not "person") then yes, of course. It's not like I can conceive a Martian.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

Just because you write your opinion doesn't mean that it's true.

The same applies to you, friend.

You are at odds with the science of embryology.

No, I'm really not. Go back to the other thread and read the quotes in my link.

 

[PapaZoom]

Of course. It's not like I can conceive a Martian.

Then you fall into the category of being an honest person in the abortion debate. You acknowledge what we are actually discussing and at least we can disagree honestly. I totally respect you for that.

 

[Cearbhall]

Then you fall into the category of being an honest person in the abortion debate. You acknowledge what we are actually discussing and at least we can disagree honestly. I totally respect you for that.

Pro-choice individuals tend to be big fans of science and are completely aware that human embryos are human embryos. You seem to be calling people dishonest for not awarding special significance to human status from the moment of conception. For all intents and purposes, an embryo is indeed a blob of tissue.

 

[PapaZoom]

Of course it's about choice. We may disagree over the use of "human being" rather than foetus, but the kernel of the issue is about whether a woman should choose whether or not to terminate her pregnancy and to have that, let's call it 'organism' destroyed. It is quite clearly a choice she makes.

a foetus is a human being...just read an embryology book and it's not about terminating a pregnancy. All pregnancies terminate. It's about the killing of a human being while in the womb.

So, you are not "anti-abortion" are you? You are against it under some circumstances! You have already taken up a negotiated position over when a foetus may be destroyed and when it may not. Why are you so bigoted as to not allow women to make the same decision that you have just made!? Why should the limits that YOU lay down for yourself be the determining factor in another's preferences?

I am against abortion. But I recognize that if the life of the mother were truly threatened (very rare these days) then an abortion becomes medically necessary to save the life of the mother.

Congratulations on your ability to State the Bleeding Obvious! Yes, women have the right to make decisions about whether to destroy a foetus. Was this ever in doubt?

This can't be a serious question

Or, like you, you approve of it under certain circumstances!

Ah, the black-white thinking of the fundamentalist!

You are not being honest about my real position.