Holy Trinity Explanations

[jesus4gaveme03]

I would like to discuss the various explanations Christians have towards the Trinity and how to effectively explain it to the unbeliever.

 

[alexandriaisburning]

I would like to discuss the various explanations Christians have towards the Trinity and how to effectively explain it to the unbeliever.

Define "effectively explain". While the Trinity has dogmatic formulations, it is ultimately a mystery.

 

[jesus4gaveme03]

In effectively explaining, I mean I have seen many discussions about this topic and if we can help each other be better equipped when debating the topic.

 

[alexandriaisburning]

In effectively explaining, I mean I have seen many discussions about this topic and if we can help each other be better equipped when debating the topic.

Debating the topic with whom? Unbelievers? The truth of the Trinity must be apprehended by faith; no articulation of the Trinity can convince someone who does not believe.

 

[LastSeven]

In effectively explaining, I mean I have seen many discussions about this topic and if we can help each other be better equipped when debating the topic.

I like this question and I think you're right. It's important that we, as Christians, are well equipped to explain and defend our beliefs.

I've heard various explanations regarding the trinity. Some people compare it to a human being who has a body, spirit and soul. Three parts that make up one person. Although I don't think that most people really know what a spirit or soul is, so that explanation is a little vague and can in fact be misleading.

Personally I've learned that the "spirit" God gave us is not an entity, but rather the breath of life. Therefore the Holy Spirit can be considered the life of God, which he has given to us, and which returns to God when we die. This is why we can say we have the spirit in us. We all have the spirit (breath of life) in us, even the unbelievers. See Genesis 2:7.

However only the believers have Jesus inside. Jesus is the word of God. Jesus is also the light of this world and the truth and the only way to get to the father. Which means the word of God is the light, and the word of God is the way. If we believe in the word of God, then we can come to the father. And since the word of God has always existed, even those who died before Jesus was born can come to the father, if they believed.

So essentially, God the father is God, who has the breath of life (Holy Spirit) and the truth in his words (Jesus Christ) which will set us free and gather us to Him. Seen this way, "the trinity" is not so much three distinct entities, but more like a description of God himself.

 

[jesus4gaveme03]

Debating the topic with whom? Unbelievers? The truth of the Trinity must be apprehended by faith; no articulation of the Trinity can convince someone who does not believe.

I have seen in those discussions both believers and non-believers differ on the topic. If we can talk about it here, we could be better equipped to discuss it elsewhere, in forums and in person with other people who are curious about the topic. Would you deny a non-believer the knowledge of this topic if it would lead him or her to Christ? Would you deny a new believer, letting him or her to continue to deceive themselves until they cannot believe anything else except that which is not biblical, then either leading them astray from the church because of confusion of the topic, or continue to worsen their deception by someone who is not of the church, taking advantage of this deception?

 

[Winter_Rose]

Well, you say that there is one God with three personalities. For example we have a physical body, a soul (our mind and emotions) and a spirit (worship, prayer and Faith).

 

[All4Christ]

Well, you say that there is one God with three personalities.

We need to be careful when saying there is one God with three personalities. That sounds like we are saying God just appears in three different forms. They are eternally distinct and not just different aspects.

There is only One God, yet there are Three who are God—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—perfectly united and never divided yet not merged into one with no proper distinction.

The Church (from the time of the Nicene Creed) has always taught that there are three persons in the Trinity (the essence of nature that makes up "who" God is). The early Church Fathers taught that the "who" defines 3 persons, but the "what" is the one God, perfect in unity, yet undivided.

So while being one in what they are (God), the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are Three in who they are.

God the Father created the world through the Son (Word) in the Holy Spirit. The Word of God is present in all that exists, making it to exist by the power of the Spirit. The universe itself is a revelation of God in the Word and the Spirit. The Word is in all that exists, causing it to be, and the Spirit is in all that exists as the power of its being and life.

You can see this particularly in the creation of man. We are created in the image of God through His Word. All things were created by the Word; without Him, nothing was created. This image of God is perfectly made incarnate through the Son, and we can partake of this life. We also are the temple of the Holy Spirit; God's breath is breathed into us, empowering us to imitate God and partake of immortality. We alone are able to mirror the Son - and become sons of God - reflecting the divine nature through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Through the existence of man, we can see the Trinitarian dimensions of he being and actions of God; the Word and the Spirit of God enter man to allow them to be and to become that for which the Father has willed their existence.

I know this is very inadequate to fully explain the Trinity. It truly is a mystery, and is difficult to explain. When we boil it down to a simple explanation, it often misses critical aspects of the Trinitarian theology. That said, this is my best attempt to explain it.

 

[Winter_Rose]

We need to be careful when saying there is one God with three personalities. That sounds like we are saying God just appears in three different forms. They are eternally distinct and not just different aspects.

There is only One God, yet there are Three who are God—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—perfectly united and never divided yet not merged into one with no proper distinction.

The Church (from the time of the Nicene Creed) has always taught that there are three persons in the Trinity (the essence of nature that makes up "who" God is). The early Church Fathers taught that the "who" defines 3 persons, but the "what" is the one God, perfect in unity, yet undivided.

So while being one in what they are (God), the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are Three in who they are.

God the Father created the world through the Son (Word) in the Holy Spirit. The Word of God is present in all that exists, making it to exist by the power of the Spirit. The universe itself is a revelation of God in the Word and the Spirit. The Word is in all that exists, causing it to be, and the Spirit is in all that exists as the power of its being and life.

You can see this particularly in the creation of man. We are created in the image of God through His Word. All things were created by the Word; without Him, nothing was created. This image of God is perfectly made incarnate through the Son, and we can partake of this life. We also are the temple of the Holy Spirit; God's breath is breathed into us, empowering us to imitate God and partake of immortality. We alone are able to mirror the Son - and become sons of God - reflecting the divine nature through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Through the existence of man, we can see the Trinitarian dimensions of he being and actions of God; the Word and the Spirit of God enter man to allow them to be and to become that for which the Father has willed their existence.

I know this is very inadequate to fully explain the Trinity. It truly is a mystery, and is difficult to explain. When we boil it down to a simple explanation, it often misses critical aspects of the Trinitarian theology. That said, this is my best attempt to explain it.

I apologise if I worded it wrong.

 

[jesus4gaveme03]

I like this question and I think you're right. It's important that we, as Christians, are well equipped to explain and defend our beliefs.

I've heard various explanations regarding the trinity. Some people compare it to a human being who has a body, spirit and soul. Three parts that make up one person. Although I don't think that most people really know what a spirit or soul is, so that explanation is a little vague and can in fact be misleading.

Personally I've learned that the "spirit" God gave us is not an entity, but rather the breath of life. Therefore the Holy Spirit can be considered the life of God, which he has given to us, and which returns to God when we die. This is why we can say we have the spirit in us. We all have the spirit (breath of life) in us, even the unbelievers. See Genesis 2:7.

However only the believers have Jesus inside. Jesus is the word of God. Jesus is also the light of this world and the truth and the only way to get to the father. Which means the word of God is the light, and the word of God is the way. If we believe in the word of God, then we can come to the father. And since the word of God has always existed, even those who died before Jesus was born can come to the father, if they believed.

So essentially, God the father is God, who has the breath of life (Holy Spirit) and the truth in his words (Jesus Christ) which will set us free and gather us to Him. Seen this way, "the trinity" is not so much three distinct entities, but more like a description of God himself.

The way the Trinity has been revealed to me is mainly logical and metaphorical when I read about the creation of man in Genesis and the nature of God John 1. Much like what you have read about one God, three persons LastSeven, it goes like this:

God made man in His image. An image is a reflection of the original. In order to look at Him, we need to look at ourselves. We have three persons in one. We have our Mind, our Body, and we have our Spirit or Soul. Our Mind is our thoughts, and signals to tell the body what to do. The Body is our flesh and physical mass of the brain. And we have our Spirit or Soul.

Each person is capable of controlling its functions within its own person. For example, the Mind can think without making the body move, the Body can digest without thought, and the Spirit can keep faith without regard to thoughts.

That being said, each person is capable of speaking with and is aware of the other persons. The Mind can tell the Body to stand up and walk and it does so. The Spirit can feel anxiety or love and change hormones for each mood. The Body can tell the mind when it is hungry.

The Mind is in control of the other two persons. The Body can tell the Mind that it is tired, but the Mind tells the body to persist because the task is more important and the Body obeys. The Spirit can say that it is afraid, but the Mind can say there is no reason to be afraid and the Spirit obeys.

God the Father is the Mind, Jesus is the Body, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit. One being in you and me with three persons; one God in one being with three different persons.

Man has a spirit or soul because God breathed into us the breath of Life. Every person, saved or unsaved, has a soul and will either end up in Heaven or Hell. Upon death, the human body loses about 21 grams of weight that is not found in animals. http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/05/13/1105956.htm Granted, his sample size was small, but it did show significance. The Bible does not mention that God breathed the breath of Life into animals, but why mention giving us the breath of Life if it wasn't unique? The Bible also does not mention animals entering Heaven or Hell, nor does it talk about the Law applying to animals, thus capable of committing sin. The point being that man has a Spirit that animals do not possess.

Jesus calls the Mind "Father" because the Mind is in charge and the Body listens. The Word of God spoken of in John 1 is the combined actions of the Mind thinking the words, telling the Body to speak the words, then the Word of God coming out of the mouth of the Body.

 

[All4Christ]

I apologise if I worded it wrong.

It's just a complicated subject I wasn't trying to say that in a bad way; please don't take it that way.

I always have a hard time explaining it, but can never find a short adequate description. I used to have a bunch of descriptions I used (such as an egg, a marriage, etc.) but never found one simple thing that can fully explain it.

 

[Winter_Rose]

It's just a complicated subject I wasn't trying to say that in a bad way; please don't take it that way.

I always have a hard time explaining it, but can never find a short adequate description. I used to have a bunch of descriptions I used (such as an egg, a marriage, etc.) but never found one thing that can fully explain it.

Don't worry, I'm not offended in any way.

 

[jesus4gaveme03]

I apologise if I worded it wrong.

No need to apologize if there is no offense. We take this time to learn form each other.

 

[LastSeven]

The way the Trinity has been revealed to me is mainly logical and metaphorical when I read about the creation of man in Genesis and the nature of God John 1. Much like what you have read about one God, three persons LastSeven, it goes like this:

God made man in His image. An image is a reflection of the original. In order to look at Him, we need to look at ourselves. We have three persons in one. We have our Mind, our Body, and we have our Spirit or Soul. Our Mind is our thoughts, and signals to tell the body what to do. The Body is our flesh and physical mass of the brain. And we have our Spirit or Soul.

Each person is capable of controlling its functions within its own person. For example, the Mind can think without making the body move, the Body can digest without thought, and the Spirit can keep faith without regard to thoughts.

That being said, each person is capable of speaking with and is aware of the other persons. The Mind can tell the Body to stand up and walk and it does so. The Spirit can feel anxiety or love and change hormones for each mood. The Body can tell the mind when it is hungry.

The Mind is in control of the other two persons. The Body can tell the Mind that it is tired, but the Mind tells the body to persist because the task is more important and the Body obeys. The Spirit can say that it is afraid, but the Mind can say there is no reason to be afraid and the Spirit obeys.

God the Father is the Mind, Jesus is the Body, and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit. One being in you and me with three persons; one God in one being with three different persons.

Man has a spirit or soul because God breathed into us the breath of Life. Every person, saved or unsaved, has a soul and will either end up in Heaven or Hell. Upon death, the human body loses about 21 grams of weight that is not found in animals. http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/05/13/1105956.htm Granted, his sample size was small, but it did show significance. The Bible does not mention that God breathed the breath of Life into animals, but why mention giving us the breath of Life if it wasn't unique? The Bible also does not mention animals entering Heaven or Hell, nor does it talk about the Law applying to animals, thus capable of committing sin. The point being that man has a Spirit that animals do not possess.

Jesus calls the Mind "Father" because the Mind is in charge and the Body listens. The Word of God spoken of in John 1 is the combined actions of the Mind thinking the words, telling the Body to speak the words, then the Word of God coming out of the mouth of the Body.

That's certainly the most common explanation but there area few problems with your post.

First of all, the bible says that there is no difference between people and animals in this regard.

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20
For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

Secondly, you seem to be using the word soul and spirit almost interchangeably. Notice in Genesis 2:7 that when god breathed life into man he became a living soul. He did not receive a soul, he became a soul. In other words, we do have have souls, we are souls.

 

[All4Christ]

That's certainly the most common explanation but there area few problems with your post.

First of all, the bible says that there is no difference between people and animals in this regard.

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20
For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

Secondly, you seem to be using the word soul and spirit almost interchangeably. Notice in Genesis 2:7 that when god breathed life into man he became a living soul. He did not receive a soul, he became a soul. In other words, we do have have souls, we are souls.

The Hebrew term for soul "nephesh" (נֶפֶש) does indeed mean the entire being. However when speaking the same term "soul" (ψυχή) in the Greek New Testament, it refers to "psuche" or "life-force". In this sense, the "soul", or "psuche" can leave the body upon death up until our bodily resurrection at the final judgment. Consider 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

 

[LastSeven]

The Hebrew term for soul "nephesh" (נֶפֶש) does indeed mean the entire being. However when speaking the same term "soul" (ψυχή) in the Greek New Testament, it refers to "psuche" or "life-force". In this sense, the "soul", or "psuche" can leave the body upon death up until our bodily resurrection at the final judgment. Consider 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

I'll start a new thread on this later and we can discuss it there. There certainly seem to be some conflicting verses that muddy the water but seeing these verses we can't ignore the others. All verses are in agreement, and if they don't seem to be then we're not understanding them correctly.

 

[All4Christ]

I'll start a new thread on this later and we can discuss it there. There certainly seem to be some conflicting verses that muddy the water but seeing these verses we can't ignore the others. All verses are in agreement, and if they don't seem to be then we're not understanding them correctly.

Let me know if you start it. I don't always see the new threads when I use Tapatalk here. I agree though that all verses must line up together. My main point is that there is a distinction between the Greek terminology and the Hebrew terminology. The term "soul" is not easily translated.

 

[jesus4gaveme03]

That's certainly the most common explanation but there area few problems with your post.

First of all, the bible says that there is no difference between people and animals in this regard.

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20
For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

Secondly, you seem to be using the word soul and spirit almost interchangeably. Notice in Genesis 2:7 that when god breathed life into man he became a living soul. He did not receive a soul, he became a soul. In other words, we do have have souls, we are souls.

I Have not seen that verse before, thank-you for showing it to me. As to Genesis 2:7, I agree with you that we are souls, just like the Word is God, begotten not made. When we die like All4Christ had said, our souls return to heaven then at the first return of Christ, we will be called up to Him and our bodies in Heaven will be whole. As to the beasts and man, reading in context of Ecclesiastes 3-4, the beasts in the text do refer to the animals of this world, but more specifically, the way they labor for our benefit. It is not saying we should boast in our works for the means of salvation, but rejoice in our works we have done for Him and not be wearied. The contrast of the beasts and man both animals and man will die and will both return to the dust of the Earth, but men [and women] who are of the Lord and rejoice in Him will ascend to Heaven, while the beasts, or animals, will only return to the dust.

 

[All4Christ]

I Have not seen that verse before, thank-you for showing it to me. As to Genesis 2:7, I agree with you that we are souls, just like the Word is God, begotten not made. When we die like All4Christ had said, our souls return to heaven then at the first return of Christ, we will be called up to Him and our bodies in Heaven will be whole. As to the beasts and man, reading in context of Ecclesiastes 3-4, the beasts in the text do refer to the animals of this world, but more specifically, the way they labor for our benefit. It is not saying we should boast in our works for the means of salvation, but rejoice in our works we have done for Him and not be wearied. The contrast of the beasts and man both animals and man will die and will both return to the dust of the Earth, but men [and women] who are of the Lord and rejoice in Him will ascend to Heaven, while the beasts, or animals, will only return to the dust.

I agree with you on most of this, with the one clarification that man was created.

John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Mankind was created by God, and then the breath of God made us souls, in the Hebrew terminology. Through the Word, we were adopted as sons of God.

Other than that, I agree [emoji846]

 

[Gnarwhal]

Thomas Aquinas would be a good person to look into. This blog summarizes and breaks down some of his thoughts on this subject:

http://www.aquinasblog.com/16-trinity.html