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Holiness vs. Man-Made Rules

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by Vince53, Nov 3, 2009.

  1. Vince53

    Vince53 Junior Member

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    When Strict Rules Fail

    A successful Ruckmanite pastor would post on the internet, insisting that Christians had to obey a list of man-made rules in order to live holy lives. The list included various dress codes, restrictions on music, places where Christians were not allowed to go, and others.

    Another pastor, who had graduated from a strict Bible college that had commanded those same rules, wrote in to ridicule him. He had turned against those rules, and he now practiced scorn and ridicule on those who obeyed them. Later, it turned out that the second pastor was having an affair while still pastoring his church.

    The first pastor went on in triumph, until his wife caught him having an affair that had lasted nine months. A few weeks later, he was back on the internet, teaching with authority, as if nothing had happened.

    While there have always been scandals in the ministry, Ruckmanites (people who believe that the King James Version IS the Word of God, and it is sinful to use any other translation) have had a far heavier share than most; yet they have stricter rules than most.

    Is it possible to live a holy life without obeying a list of man-made rules?
     
  2. mlqurgw

    mlqurgw New Member

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    A believer has a holy nature that is the seed of Christ in them. 1John 3:9 That which is born of God, the new creation, is a holy and righteous nature. It is a new man that cannot sin. Still the old man, the flesh, lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. Gal. 5:17 The old man can never be made better because it is flesh. It doesn't need to be taken to the hospital to be cured but to the cross to be crucified. True holiness is that holiness which is in Christ alone. It is that holiness which He gives us without which no man shall see the Lord. There are no degrees to righteousness or holiness. It must be perfect to be accepted. You are either holy and righteous or you aren't. If you are almost holy you ain't holy.
     
  3. JohnDB

    JohnDB Regular Member

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    Col 2:20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

    2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.


    It appears to me that Paul has quite completely answered this question in two different places somewhat glued together...
     
  4. Hammster

    Hammster ChristianityHaven Supporter

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    I guess I would have to ask what you mean by holy.

    But in general, if we live lives focused on Christ and Him crucified, then He takes care of the rest.
     
  5. Jeffwhosoever

    Jeffwhosoever Ministry Liaison Staff Member Community Coordinator Supporter Staff on LOA CF Ambassador

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    Amazing that we can't learn the lesson of the Jewish Pharisees that ruled during the time of Jesus Christ. They too were following rules - some of them "man made" but others based on the ten commandments. However, they rejected the Lord Jesus Christ and most likely died and went to Hell. Now doesn't that answer the question about strict adherence to rules (without Faith and Fruits of the Spirit such as Love, patience, kindness, etc)?
     
  6. Vince53

    Vince53 Junior Member

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    How the Rules Began

    It helps if you understand where, when, and how today's bunch of man-made rules began. In the early part of the twentieth century, Hollywood found that movies provided a lucrative method of introducing immorality, glamor, and worldliness to the general population. At a time of strict government laws against indecency, Hollywood fought for sin, and wealthy producers made a fortune doing so. A small number of rebellious women began wearing pants in public. Playing cards provided opportunities to gamble, drink, and neglect families.

    A small number of churches objected, but these objections were not well-organized....yet.
     
  7. Vince53

    Vince53 Junior Member

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    Why Fundamentalists Accepted the Rules

    "Modernists" are people within Christianity who seek to turn their church or denomination away from Christ. In the early twentieth century, they were opposed by the "fundamentalists," who believed the fundamental Christian doctrines. The fundamentalists were not a new group; Christianity had always believed in the Deity of Christ and His virgin birth, the literal Second Coming of Christ, His literal resurrection from the dead, salvation by faith alone, and the total innerrancy of the Bible.

    Having rejected Christ, modernists also rejected holy living, which is a natural product of the new birth (which they also rejected). Fundamentalists over-reacted, preaching holy living (which the Bible commands) but adding man-made rules that dealt with the current situation.

    They preached against movies, cards, women wearing slacks, and various other offenses. At one time, some of these rules might have made some sense. But as the decades rolled by, the "current situation" that had produced these rules changed. Fundamentalists found themselves stuck with obsolete rules that their own people did not want to obey. Their response? Preach heavily on these rules; it was the only way to keep them in force.
     
  8. nobdysfool

    nobdysfool The original! Accept no substitutes!

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    The old "we don't smoke, drink, cuss, or chew, nor run around with them that do" mentality, whereby personal holiness was judged by outward adherence to strict rules of outward behavior, which do nothing to change the heart. Man has this inherent desire to lord it over others, to control others, mark and separate, and in general perpetuate a carnal, unholy attitude toward others. Usually, the strict rule crowd looks down their nose at the heathen, and others who claim to be Christian, but don't live by their strict rules. All they have done is exchanged easily identifiable "outward sins" for the more subtle and ultimately more deadly "inner sins" of pride, envy, lust and greed.
     
  9. Vince53

    Vince53 Junior Member

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    Do Man-Made Rules Make You Holy?

    Is it possible to obtain holiness by obeying a list of man-made rules?

    Col 2:20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations--
    21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,"
    22 which all concern things which perish with the using--according to the commandments and doctrines of men?
    23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

    Paul explains that these man-made rules only appear to have wisdom, because they cause you to sacrifice. But they do not improve your flesh or keep you from sin.
     
  10. Vince53

    Vince53 Junior Member

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    Holiness=Separation

    We have seen that holiness cannot be obtained by obeying a list of man-made rules. So, how do you obtain holiness?

    The words "holy," "sanctified," and "separate" are all the same words in the Greek and Hebrew. "Holiness" means "separation." It does not mean "spiritual" or "religious." The Bible uses these three words in only two ways: separation from sin, and separated to God. TO BECOME HOLY, YOU NEED TO SEPARATE FROM SIN.

    Okay, how does this happen?
     
  11. TimRout

    TimRout Biblicist

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    I would argue that one becomes holy through the sovereign imputation of divine righteousness [2 Cor. 5:21], whereby God predestines all whom He foreknew, calls all whom He predestined, justifies all whom He calls, and ultimately glorifies all whom He has justified [Ro. 8:29-30].
     
  12. Vince53

    Vince53 Junior Member

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    How to Become Holy

    There are sincere Christians who strongly believe in man-made rules, insisting that we need these rules in order to know how to live holy lives. Yet Colossians 2:20-23, clearly states that these rules will not make you holy.

    In John 17:17, Jesus prayed "Sanctify them through your truth. Your word is truth." The passage could also be correctly translated "Separate them through your truth," or "Make them holy through your truth."

    Now we see that God's Word (which does not contain man-made rules) does make you holy. The next question is "How?"
     
  13. Vince53

    Vince53 Junior Member

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    How does the Bible make you holy?


    We've seen that holiness is obtained by reading God's Word. How and why?

    1Th 2:13 ¶ For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.

    This next part is important, so please pay close attention. When you practice obedience to man-made rules NOTHING HAPPENS. When you read the Bible, it WORKS EFFECTIVELY in you. God uses the Scriptures to deal with specific problems in your life. He uses His Word to make you grow as a Christian. Reading the Word of God produces results in your life. Following man-made rules does not produce results in your life.
     
  14. Harry3142

    Harry3142 Regular Member

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    We as Christians have a code of conduct which we are to accept and live by. But it is a code of conduct that requires the direct guidance, gifts, and strength of the Holy Spirit:

    So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

    The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

    This is 'The Christians' Code of Conduct', as taught to us by St. Paul. So long as we are within these parameters with our thoughts, words and actions, we can truly say that we are doing God's will. With the Holy Spirit to empower and guide us, we need accept the criticism of no man.
     
  15. Hammster

    Hammster ChristianityHaven Supporter

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    I can't see anything we do to be considered holy.
     
  16. the particular baptist

    the particular baptist pactum serva

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    You been reading Huntington and the old particular baptists Hammster ?
     
  17. Vince53

    Vince53 Junior Member

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    Good post, Harry. We are to live by the Spirit, not by man-made rules.
     
  18. Hammster

    Hammster ChristianityHaven Supporter

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    No, but I have been reading Tim Keller, and listening to a bunch of White Horse Inn podcasts concerning the Gospel. Plus studying about justification. Thankfully, we don't need to make ourselves holy, but Christ's righteousness is imputed to us.
     
  19. the particular baptist

    the particular baptist pactum serva

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    hear hear !
     
  20. mlqurgw

    mlqurgw New Member

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    We walk by faith not by sight. Looking daily, moment by moment, to the Person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ trusting in His righteousness alone and His faithfulness we need no rules, including the 10 Commandments, to guide us. The Spirit continually point us to Christ and His finished work. Personal holiness is Christ in us the hope of glory. That holiness without which no man shall see the Lord is the righteousness of Christ imputed to us in justification and given in us in the new birth. Contrary to what has been taught sanctification isn't a process by which we become more holy it is an act of God in us by which we are made new creatures in Christ and are made holy by His seed in us. Christ is our justifying holiness and our sanctifying holiness. The word sanctify or sanctification in the Scriptures has 3 basic uses: Set apart as God's, which is the primary meaning; declared holy by God; and made holy by God. Nowhere is it said to be a process by which we make ourselves holy. In the new birth we become partakers of the Divine nature and are created in true holiness and righteousness. We still live in this body of death but it no longer has dominion over us.
     
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