Here's my problem, I believe in evolution, and it brings up doubts especially in the OT...

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PsychoSarah

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So you read where St Paul mentions that no human has an excuse as we can see the Divine attributes of God in His creation?
Yes. I am going to directly state that this is wrong. Even if humans inherently saw divinity in nature, there would be no way of knowing WHICH deity did the work.
 
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redleghunter

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Yes. I am going to directly state that this is wrong. Even if humans inherently saw divinity in nature, there would be no way of knowing WHICH deity did the work.

Yet like the Athenians they had a memorial to the UNKNOWN GOD.

They were pretty smart folks.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Yet like the Athenians they had a memorial to the UNKNOWN GOD.

They were pretty smart folks.
Last I checked, Yahweh didn't appreciate any worship of deities besides itself, so that memorial wouldn't do anything for them... should the god you worship exist.
 
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BobRyan

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Here's my problem, I believe in evolution, and it brings up doubts especially in the OT... were the OT writers simply writing what they "thought" and the way they "felt" about God, and not in an actual words God actually said..

Well, my problem is I believe the scientific evidence which casts doubt on some of the Bible writers, BUT, I have too much personal experiencial evidence of a God and other spirits existing on another side beside this one...

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...periencing-part-of-a-pm-conversation.7843548/

My personal experiencial evidence stands on it's very own as enough proof for me, but have I encountered the same God (YHWH) spoke about in the OT, some OT acts and verses by God cast a shadow of a doubt on him being a or the God of Love...

Anyone help?

God Bless!

Darwin claimed that is faith in blind faith evolutionism eventually drove out every last vestige of his acceptance of the Word of God. Dawkins, Provine, P.Z. Meyers all claimed the same thing.

One thing is for certain - blind faith evolutionism is totally at odds with faith in the Bible as the Word of God.

There can be no logical and truthful marriage between the two religions regarding the doctrine on origins - as Darwin himself observed.
 
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BobRyan

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You don't have to explain it; you only have to accept the reality of which Genesis 3 speaks.

If you accept the reality of the 7 day week of Genesis 1-2:3 and reality of it as summarized in legal code in Ex 20:11 then you have no problem at all of accepting the reality of Genesis 3.
 
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BobRyan

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Christianity is NOT opposed to evolution;

Until you read the actual Bible.

Evolutionists cannot respect hermeneutics, the science of understanding how the original audience would have read this passage.

for example - the "kind of literature" that it is - in Genesis 1:2-2:3

==================================

Professor James Barr, Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Oxford, has written:

‘Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that: (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience (b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story (c) Noah’s flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark. Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.’

=======================

That is the opinion of professors not at all inclined to accept the 7 day creation week that we find in Gen 1:2-2:3 yet they can still 'read' and point to the author's intent - whether they agree with the author or not.
 
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redleghunter

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Last I checked, Yahweh didn't appreciate any worship of deities besides itself, so that memorial wouldn't do anything for them... should the god you worship exist.

Please read Acts 17 for context.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Please read Acts 17 for context.
Please don't ignore the 10 commandments. Thou shalt not worship false idols. Also, don't forget that in Jesus's own words, his coming didn't make the rules of the OT go away. If the NT disagrees, it's a contradiction.
 
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redleghunter

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Please don't ignore the 10 commandments. Thou shalt not worship false idols. Also, don't forget that in Jesus's own words, his coming didn't make the rules of the OT go away. If the NT disagrees, it's a contradiction.

You may have missed the entire point.
 
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PsychoSarah

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You may have missed the entire point.
My point is that as long as people worship other deities, the god of the bible is not pleased, even if they acknowledge it along with the others. Also, if you want me to read a portion of the bible, either quote it, or if you want me to read the entirety of Acts all over again, you are out of luck, I am not putting that much time into 1 response. That would be ridiculous.
 
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BobRyan

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My point is that as long as people worship other deities, the god of the bible is not pleased, even if they acknowledge it along with the others. Also, if you want me to read a portion of the bible, either quote it, or if you want me to read the entirety of Acts all over again, you are out of luck, I am not putting that much time into 1 response. That would be ridiculous.

I am tempted to agree with PsychoSarah -- ??
 
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BobRyan

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Please don't ignore the 10 commandments. Thou shalt not worship false idols. Also, don't forget that in Jesus's own words, his coming didn't make the rules of the OT go away.

Depends on the rule.

In Hebrews 10 - the rules about killing animals - end.

Ceremonial laws end.

And of course the civil laws end when the sovereignty of the nation ended.


But if you point is that the moral law - the law that defines sin did not end - I agree.
 
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BobRyan

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Last I checked, Yahweh didn't appreciate any worship of deities besides itself, so that memorial wouldn't do anything for them... should the god you worship exist.

True. As 1 Cor 8 points out - pagan gods are little more than demons. And rocks are not god at all.
 
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BobRyan

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redleghunter said:
So you read where St Paul mentions that no human has an excuse as we can see the Divine attributes of God in His creation?

Yes. I am going to directly state that this is wrong. Even if humans inherently saw divinity in nature, there would be no way of knowing WHICH deity did the work.

All mankind is held accountable before God and will go to hell if they do not respond to the Holy Spirit. That is stated in Romans 3:19-21 and in Galatians 3:22-24.

But that does not mean that they are lost simply because they don't have "enough of the story".

In John 16 God "convicts the WORLD" of sin and righteousness and judgment (not just Christians).

In Romans 2 - those with no Bible at all are doing 'instinctively the things of the Law SHOWING the work of the LAW of God written on the heart" - and judged as being saints - according to Romans 2.

So it is not the "completeness of the details in the story" that is saving them.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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PsychoSarah

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All mankind is held accountable before God and will go to hell if they do not respond to the Holy Spirit. That is stated in Romans 3:19-21 and in Galatians 3:22-24.

But that does not mean that they are lost simply because they don't have "enough of the story".

In John 16 God "convicts the WORLD" of sin and righteousness and judgment (not just Christians).

In Romans 2 - those with no Bible at all are doing 'instinctively the things of the Law SHOWING the work of the LAW of God written on the heart" - and judged as being saints - according to Romans 2.

So it is not the "completeness of the details in the story" that is saving them.

in Christ,

Bob
Yes, I know the scripture. My point is that such punishment is unjustified for those that never had the opportunity to be exposed to the religion. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, no person is going to become a Christian without being exposed to the religion in some way.

How fair is it, for a 10 year old that lives in some isolated region to be damned to hell because they didn't worship the correct deity if they were never exposed to the possibility of that deity?

And if god doesn't condemn people in such situations, how can you justify spreading the ideas knowing that you would be willfully damning more people than you would be saving, as everyone would have gotten a pass to heaven had you not spoken, but now that you have, it is likely that some people will disagree with you, and are now going to end up in hell, which they wouldn't have if you kept your silence.
 
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PsychoSarah

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I am tempted to agree with PsychoSarah -- ??
It happens from time to time. Just because we may disagree in some regard, doesn't mean we will in others. I find it more interesting what ideas I share with others than what I clash with them on.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Depends on the rule.

In Hebrews 10 - the rules about killing animals - end.

Ceremonial laws end.

And of course the civil laws end when the sovereignty of the nation ended.


But if you point is that the moral law - the law that defines sin did not end - I agree.
I am talking about the basics, such as the 10 commandments.
 
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BobRyan

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Please don't ignore the 10 commandments. Thou shalt not worship false idols. Also, don't forget that in Jesus's own words, his coming didn't make the rules of the OT go away.

Depends on the rule.

In Hebrews 10 - the rules about killing animals - end.

Ceremonial laws end.

And of course the civil laws end when the sovereignty of the nation ended.


But if you point is that the moral law - the law that defines sin did not end - I agree.

I am talking about the basics, such as the 10 commandments.

Eph 6:2 2 "Honour thy father and mother; which is the first Commandment with promise;"

"First Commandment" where?

In what unit of LAW still upheld in the New Testament does the 5th commandment represent the "First Commandment with a promise"?

It is not the first promise in the books of Moses.
It is not the first promise in the New Testament.

So what unit of Law is that where we have an ordered list and the 5th commandment is the first commandment in that list with a promise specified? -- (other than the obvious choice - the Ten Commandments)

Interesting - that the Bible says 'He spoke these Ten Words" and "He added no more".
 
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PsychoSarah

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Eph 6:2 2 "Honour thy father and mother; which is the first Commandment with promise;"

"First Commandment" where?

In what unit of LAW still upheld in the New Testament does the 5th commandment represent the "First Commandment with a promise"?

It is not the first promise in the books of Moses.
It is not the first promise in the New Testament.

So what unit of Law is that?
Sorry, sometimes I forget how vague the bible can be, and how hard that makes "establishing the basics".

So many things are called commandments... I am going to need a while to collect my thoughts and reword things appropriately.
 
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Hoghead1

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Psycho Sarah raised a good point. Unfortunately, Christianity has presented a contradictory message where God is depicted as saying, "Love me, or I'll send to eternal torment." When you love someone, you do not seek to coerce them with threats. I believe God is truly loving, so I think Hell is a total mistake.
 
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