Help? Was I wrong?

[His_disciple3]

The new testament is not a new set of laws. There is only one law and that's the 10 commandments. He didnt free us from one law to put us under another. If you want to take them that way, that is your right. The righteous dont need laws because He wrote His laws on our hearts. How could one commit adultery if youre loving one another as yourself? Its impossible.

It's impossible to violate any of the 10 commandments if you're loving God and loving one another. These 2 commands are sufficient in keeping the whole law. Thus, the OP is in now way in violation of the law, as she was operating in love for one another. Operating in love, does not lead to sin. Period! It's impossible! Trying to prevent someone from operating in love, is only standing in the way of Gods works, for selfish ideals. A good man, operating in love and not law, would know that. Since you argue to be under a law, you must keep the whole law. So answer these:

Do you permit women to speak in church?
Do you have a store or sell things in church?
Do you keep the sabbath Holy or did you move it Sunday?
Did you sell everything you own and give it all to the church or the poor?

The point is, we can't even keep the only law He gave us without love and thats why He freed us from the law so we could operate in love. If you're teaching law over love, I will pray for you. God Bless!

listen you can judge me all you want. I am saved by Grace, I keep not the law to be saved but follow the right things because I am saved. there was over 600 leviticus laws not just ten, keep the sabbath also had laws pretaining to it, such as if you travel over a certain mileage on the Sabbath you could be stone to death. So you can say what you want about me, but you will never ever be able to bless what God has cursed or curse what God has bless. Jesus Himself said in: Matthew 5:48

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
KJV

now this has nothing to do with my salvation but entirely pertains to my walk with Him, Paul said, "we were to be Holy and acceptable before God". which was our reasonable service Romans 12:1. I have already shown from scriptures where God curse women not only Eve as He cursed man not only Adam for the fall in the garden, which was before the law. So I won't Bless a lady having authority over man in Church, regardless of what you think about me.

 

[SharonL]

I have somewhat against this post for Gal. 3:28 is directly speaking of salvation only, and we have no contradictions in the Holy Word of God and other scriptures do distinguish a difference between male or female, "the Bishop must be the Husband of one wife" 1 Tim. 3:2

as to the opening post. I will not come between you and your Husband, I do have a problem with you deciding to open this matter up to all. now I am not saying your husband was right, but I have not Heard your husband's reasoning So I can not say, but You know yourself that some baptist separate men and women prayer groups, as this was the practice in the Jewish temples as well. however I think we could find scripture that would not encourage that practice, outside the Church. for they gathered at mary's house to pray for Peter while he was in prison (Acts 12:12 but even the scriptures tell you that you are to ask your husband of scriptural matters, so I feel you are wrong trying to find someone in this forum to agree with you, so that you can go back to your husband and say hey you were wrong, pray for this situation, as well as you could have very well said that you have a need, that you would like all in here to pray about for you.

Legalism!!!!

 

[His_disciple3]

Legalism!!!!

if you truely understood legalism, then you would apologize for this post, but I forgive you anyhow. legalism is where The law is what saves you, I have never said that anyone was unsaved by letting a woman have authority over man. But I will tell you the same as I have the Other person the New testament tells us that the way women were treated in the new testament went all the way back to the garden, and God Cursed the serpent, woman, and man for their role in the fall of man, and You will never nor should you ever try to bless what God has cursed or curse what God has blessed. Call it what you want though, I just call it keeping God Holy and lifted up!

1 Timothy 2:9-14
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
KJV

 

[IisJustMe]

I have somewhat against this post for Gal. 3:28 is directly speaking of salvation only, and we have no contradictions in the Holy Word of God and other scriptures do distinguish a difference between male or female, "the Bishop must be the Husband of one wife" 1 Tim. 3:2

as to the opening post. I will not come between you and your Husband, I do have a problem with you deciding to open this matter up to all. now I am not saying your husband was right, but I have not Heard your husband's reasoning So I can not say, but You know yourself that some baptist separate men and women prayer groups, as this was the practice in the Jewish temples as well. however I think we could find scripture that would not encourage that practice, outside the Church. for they gathered at mary's house to pray for Peter while he was in prison (Acts 12:12 but even the scriptures tell you that you are to ask your husband of scriptural matters, so I feel you are wrong trying to find someone in this forum to agree with you, so that you can go back to your husband and say hey you were wrong, pray for this situation, as well as you could have very well said that you have a need, that you would like all in here to pray about for you.

Legalism!!!!

Yup.

 

[SharonL]

if you truely understood legalism, then you would apologize for this post, but I forgive you anyhow. legalism is where The law is what saves you, I have never said that anyone was unsaved by letting a woman have authority over man. But I will tell you the same as I have the Other person the New testament tells us that the way women were treated in the new testament went all the way back to the garden, and God Cursed the serpent, woman, and man for their role in the fall of man, and You will never nor should you ever try to bless what God has cursed or curse what God has blessed. Call it what you want though, I just call it keeping God Holy and lifted up!

1 Timothy 2:9-14
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
KJV

1 Thessalonians 5:16-28

King James Version (KJV)

16 Rejoice evermore.
17 Pray without ceasing.
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Does not say male or female - all she was doing was praying - I don't think you will find anyplace in the Bible that tells you not to pray.

 

[WilliamB]

listen you can judge me all you want. I am saved by Grace, I keep not the law to be saved but follow the right things because I am saved. there was over 600 leviticus laws not just ten, keep the sabbath also had laws pretaining to it, such as if you travel over a certain mileage on the Sabbath you could be stone to death. So you can say what you want about me, but you will never ever be able to bless what God has cursed or curse what God has bless. Jesus Himself said in: Matthew 5:48

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
KJV

now this has nothing to do with my salvation but entirely pertains to my walk with Him, Paul said, "we were to be Holy and acceptable before God". which was our reasonable service Romans 12:1. I have already shown from scriptures where God curse women not only Eve as He cursed man not only Adam for the fall in the garden, which was before the law. So I won't Bless a lady having authority over man in Church, regardless of what you think about me.

Look, this is getting too heated my friend. I am not challenging your salvation and I'm not sure why you took it that way. As for who you bless to have authority over your church, that's between you and your church. That's not my place to say. All I've been trying to tell you is operating in love does not lead to a violation of the law. It might lead to a violation of your churches rules, but that doesn't make it biblical. That's all I'm saying.

 

[mandelduke]

I need some help here please, and the more scripture the better.


Here's the story. A good friend of mine and her husband just got saved around 10 days ago. Today their daughter who is about 10 months old was taken to the PICU at a major hospital in our area because she began having seizures. Another good friend and I (who are both good friends with the couple) took off for the hospital to be with them and show them support from their church family. When we got there, we encouraged them, spoke with them, assured them that God saving them was Him preparing them for this trial so that He could give them peace to get through it. Before we left, I told them I thought we should pray. It was something I had felt lead to do when I was driving down.

So we all joined hands and mommy and daddy held baby's hand and I was asked to lead us in prayer. I did so and when we were done they thank us and we all hugged and such and we left for a bit.

Anyways, My girlfriend and I went and had lunch, witnessed to their family (all of them were lost) and invited them to church as much as we could, and decided get the baby a sock monkey and say our last goodbye before heading home. It felt wonderful today to know our friends had a. gotten what they claimed they had (salvation) and b. to be able to go down and just comfort them in a way that only God's children can do for one another.

I was so excited I called my husband (who is a preacher) and told him everything. When I got to the part about being asked to pray aloud, he told me I was in the wrong for doing it. There was a man present and it was not my place because by doing that I was usurping authority over a man.

I know my role as a woman based on the scriptures, but I also know that when men are first saved, even though they automatically assume that role of spiritual leader, they still need to be taught. The baby's Dad hasn't even been asked to pray aloud or had to yet so in a way I don't think he really knew how. I mean he knows how to pray but to do it in such a public way (if that makes sense?)... Anyways, I told my husband that since we were the more seasoned Christians in the room, it was our role to spiritually lead in that sense, especially since we were asked to. My husband says I have no scripture to support this and I was in the wrong...

Yet I have no conviction, and God had laid it on my heart to do that since we had headed down there because I knew no men from our church would be present to pray with them and I felt as a preacher's wife it was my duty... Was I wrong? I don't feel a conviction? Can anyone help point me in the way of scripture that shows that sometimes when a woman is saved before a man she has to be the spiritual leader until the man has learned enough to assume that role?

[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']You most definitely did the right thing! Words of wisdom I must say. [/FONT]

 

[His_disciple3]

Look, this is getting too heated my friend. I am not challenging your salvation and I'm not sure why you took it that way. As for who you bless to have authority over your church, that's between you and your church. That's not my place to say. All I've been trying to tell you is operating in love does not lead to a violation of the law. It might lead to a violation of your churches rules, but that doesn't make it biblical. That's all I'm saying.

all I am saying is that to Love God is the first commandment, if we love God, then do we try to bless what He has cursed? you said I was under the Law, to be under the law is to trust the law for your salvation, that is why I took it that way, I quoted Jesus/God "If you love me keep my commamndments" "Why call me Lord Lord and do not the things I say" "Obedience is better than sacrifice", if God said woman was to be under man, and the new testament says that man is over woman as Christ is head of the Church, then we obey the Word! WE keep His Word.

 

[xmissjasmine]

There are actually two problems here: your submission to your husband and you praying over the child. First: I must ask in what way are you being submissive to your husband by coming on a public forum and questioning his authority not only as a pastor but as your husband? If your question his reasons for saying what he did you should go to him with it.
Second: the Scriptures do not teach that anyone is to " pray over" someone who is sick. The term, while Biblical, has taken on a most unbiblical connotation. The one place we are told to do so is James 5:14. It says that the elders are to be called and that they should pray over the sick one.

Don't misunderstand, I have no problem with praying for the sick child or anyone else. But I think in the situation that you were in perhaps it should have been a silent prayer if the father, after being asked, was uncomfortable praying publically.

It makes no difference how new a believer is all believers know how to pray. Prayer is nothing more and nothing less than the cry of the heart to Christ.

Actually, submission to my husband, isn't a problem at all. I have no problem letting him make the spiritual, financial, and household decisions for us. Period. The fact that I prayed aloud over a child of a friend doesn't make me a suddenly unruly wife... I'm not questioning his authority as my husband, I'm questioning his reasoning behind the matter. Nor do I question his authority as a preacher. What I am questioning is why I felt no condemnation, no need for repentance, if I was truly wrong as he said. Just because he's my husband doesn't mean God didn't give me a mind to think with. I've studied my role as a wife and a woman and it's something I continue to study. And further more, I've gone to him. Came to him before I came here. I came here for advice on the issue, not to bad mouth him by any means. That fact that you would assume either without knowing me is absurd and condescending.

Further more, do you ALWAYS agree with your spouse 100 % on everything? I'm sure you don't! Prime example: when my husband first got saved, he gave to Rod Parsley. I studied on him and was not comfortable with his beliefs and how he conducted himself... no was I comfortable with how he fished for money from people by begging for "seeds" to be sewn... We had several disagreements about it. IN the end, guess what God revealed to him? It was NOT a ministry he should have been supporting...

Just as I told him I will tell you, I answer to God. Not man. Man will fail me (according to the book of Psalm) and man has been known to be wrong before and will continue to be wrong until the end of time.


To the rest of you, thank you for your answers. While some agree with what I did and some don't, I appreciate the fact that you took the time to answer.

 

[His_disciple3]

1 Thessalonians 5:16-28

King James Version (KJV)

16 Rejoice evermore.
17 Pray without ceasing.
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Does not say male or female - all she was doing was praying - I don't think you will find anyplace in the Bible that tells you not to pray.

you must have miised my first post, I said that Church was different than outside the Church, I used when they gathered at Mary's house to pray for peter while he was in jail, I wonder if you didn't post all of your reference verses for a reason, Verse 17 do we stay in church without ceasing, and let me post some of your other verses for you;

1 Thessalonians 5:22-25
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
25 Brethren, pray for us.
KJV


does it say brethren and sisters, pray for us in verse 25? abstain from all evil, to try and bless something God has cursed is evil!!

 

[SharonL]

Legalism will always stiffle the walk with God - the Holy Spirit does not recognize legalism and if you walk with the leading of the Holy Spirit, which is what the OP did, you will never go wrong. Why waste time arguing about people praying - let her be free to worship and love God and let her light shine.

 

[Searching For Truth]

This is the most crazy post I've seen since coming to this forum!!! this is exactly the type of stuff that makes "RELIGION" so hard for alot of people like myself to swallow. there are scripture in the Bible that speak of Samsun going into a town and finding a prostitute to have sex with, in the story there is no mention of any punishment for this deed. So does that mean that it is ok for your husband to go sleep with prostitutes because it says so in the scripture? its crazy how "RELIGIONS" pick and choose what is and what isn't out of the bible. 1 church will say we were free from old law BUT you should still tithe 10% others say well it says this in the OT and this in the NT but this is what we will go with. I don't believe regardless of any verse anyone reads to you that in Gods eyes you did anything wrong I think that was the most precious thing you could have done and to have the courage to be a leader shows alot about you(and your husband). this idea that women is less than a man is hog wash!!! we are all EQUALLY special to God. If you feel that you did what was right at that moment then honestly its between you and God. Your Preacher husband should have been proud that his wife was able to take charge in HIS absence. this is all JMO I dont have any "scripture" to back anything I said up, but to me my personal relationship with God is much more important than some book or verse that someone quotes. I think you did a good thing and lead a great example of what Gods love is all about!!!

 

[Searching For Truth]

sorry if I offended anyone but this was just unbelievable to me. the thought anyone is wrong for praying to God is just UNREAL!!!!! God is above all things including that book called the holy bible with its 5+ revision, numerous mistranslations, numerous contradictions, and even more misunderstandings!!!! spirituality relationship with God is FAR more important than religion mans interpretation of what he feel the Bible says or means!!!

 

[His_disciple3]

This is the most crazy post I've seen since coming to this forum!!! this is exactly the type of stuff that makes "RELIGION" so hard for alot of people like myself to swallow. there are scripture in the Bible that speak of Samsun going into a town and finding a prostitute to have sex with, in the story there is no mention of any punishment for this deed. So does that mean that it is ok for your husband to go sleep with prostitutes because it says so in the scripture? its crazy how "RELIGIONS" pick and choose what is and what isn't out of the bible. 1 church will say we were free from old law BUT you should still tithe 10% others say well it says this in the OT and this in the NT but this is what we will go with. I don't believe regardless of any verse anyone reads to you that in Gods eyes you did anything wrong I think that was the most precious thing you could have done and to have the courage to be a leader shows alot about you(and your husband). this idea that women is less than a man is hog wash!!! we are all EQUALLY special to God. If you feel that you did what was right at that moment then honestly its between you and God. Your Preacher husband should have been proud that his wife was able to take charge in HIS absence. this is all JMO I dont have any "scripture" to back anything I said up, but to me my personal relationship with God is much more important than some book or verse that someone quotes. I think you did a good thing and lead a great example of what Gods love is all about!!!

so you don't consider having your eyes put out by the enemy and then becoming their slave until God restores His blessing on you to be any punishment for that deed? Second again I say what God has cursed no one can bless and what God blesses no one can curse, this topic is confirmed before the law, during the law and after the law: scriptures says we are to be one with Christ as He is one with the Father, if we are with the Father, how can we say that I am going to do what I want regardless of what some scriptures say? rest assured there is punishment for sin and scripture never told us to go find a prostitute!

Ephesians 5:22-25
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
KJV


Genesis 3:16
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
KJV

 

[Searching For Truth]

so you don't consider having your eyes put out by the enemy and then becoming their slave until God restores His blessing on you to be any punishment for that deed? Second again I say what God has cursed no one can bless and what God blesses no one can curse, this topic is confirmed before the law, during the law and after the law: scriptures says we are to be one with Christ as He is one with the Father, if we are with the Father, how can we say that I am going to do what I want regardless of what some scriptures say? rest assured there is punishment for sin and scripture never told us to go find a prostitute!

Ephesians 5:22-25
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
KJV


Genesis 3:16
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
KJV

Did the bible say that was his punishment for that deed???

and you can quote every verse in the bible about a women but that has nothing to do with the specific situation this lady was in. do you honestly believe it would have been better in Gods eyes if she would had said nothing and everyone went there own way without any prayer ever being lifted to God??? Come on dude be serious!!!

 

[Boidae]

so you don't consider having your eyes put out by the enemy and then becoming their slave until God restores His blessing on you to be any punishment for that deed? Second again I say what God has cursed no one can bless and what God blesses no one can curse, this topic is confirmed before the law, during the law and after the law: scriptures says we are to be one with Christ as He is one with the Father, if we are with the Father, how can we say that I am going to do what I want regardless of what some scriptures say? rest assured there is punishment for sin and scripture never told us to go find a prostitute!

Ephesians 5:22-25
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
KJV


Genesis 3:16
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
KJV

Before Ephesians 5:22 is Ephesians 5:21. Submit one to another out of reverence for Christ.

Funny how those that want women only submission forget that there is a 5:21 before 5:22.

As for Genesis 3:16, I believe that is what the desire to do will be. Men will desire to rule over women. That doesn't mean that we must act on all our desires.

I don't rule over my wife, she is my equal and is treated as such. I do not have veto power over her and we make decisions that we both agree on or it doesn't get decided.

We submit to each other, it's not one way submission.

 

[WilliamB]

all I am saying is that to Love God is the first commandment, if we love God, then do we try to bless what He has cursed? you said I was under the Law, to be under the law is to trust the law for your salvation, that is why I took it that way, I quoted Jesus/God "If you love me keep my commamndments" "Why call me Lord Lord and do not the things I say" "Obedience is better than sacrifice", if God said woman was to be under man, and the new testament says that man is over woman as Christ is head of the Church, then we obey the Word! WE keep His Word.

You said it my friend, keep His commands. And there's only two. His yoke is not heavy. That said, if you believe something is sin in your heart, then it is. I personally will just stick with the two commands and let Gods love do the rest. We can never give the world enough love. Male, female, who cares....just love, love, love. But that's me. God bless!

 

[His_disciple3]

Legalism will always stiffle the walk with God - the Holy Spirit does not recognize legalism and if you walk with the leading of the Holy Spirit, which is what the OP did, you will never go wrong. Why waste time arguing about people praying - let her be free to worship and love God and let her light shine.

let me give you a legal fact that you can bite into and please chew on it awhile before you split it out! The Holy Spirit will never go against the Holy Word of God, The Holy Spirit is God and is one with the Father. as Christ is one with the Holy Spirit, and they can never be against one another. Jesus never cursed the law, but rather fulfilled the law. He Never excused us from the law but redeemed us from it. If the scriptures are wrong; where God put men as leaders of the home and Church, then how do we know that john 3:16 is not wrong also. we can not pick and chose what parts are right and what parts are wrong, we must live by every Word. If my people whom are called by my Name shall humble themselves before me, Jesus says what ever you have done unto the least of these you have done unto me. so when wives humble themselves before their husbands, they humble themselves before God, if this is degrading for a woman to submit before her Husband, whom she has seen, then how can she submit herself to God, whom she has not seen, and can she submit to God is she won't submit to her husband, if God has said to submit to her husband. She is not defying God as she defies her Husband

 

[WilliamB]

Before Ephesians 5:22 is Ephesians 5:21. Submit one to another out of reverence for Christ.

Funny how those that want women only submission forget that there is a 5:21 before 5:22.

As for Genesis 3:16, I believe that is what the desire to do will be. Men will desire to rule over women. That doesn't mean that we must act on all our desires.

I don't rule over my wife, she is my equal and is treated as such. I do not have veto power over her and we make decisions that we both agree on or it doesn't get decided.

We submit to each other, it's not one way submission.

Bingo!

 

[Boidae]

Bingo!

To me it's not hard to understand, yet I guess for some it's hard to give up.