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Help? Was I wrong?

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by xmissjasmine, May 7, 2012.

  1. xmissjasmine

    xmissjasmine Guest

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    I need some help here please, and the more scripture the better.


    Here's the story. A good friend of mine and her husband just got saved around 10 days ago. Today their daughter who is about 10 months old was taken to the PICU at a major hospital in our area because she began having seizures. Another good friend and I (who are both good friends with the couple) took off for the hospital to be with them and show them support from their church family. When we got there, we encouraged them, spoke with them, assured them that God saving them was Him preparing them for this trial so that He could give them peace to get through it. Before we left, I told them I thought we should pray. It was something I had felt lead to do when I was driving down.

    So we all joined hands and mommy and daddy held baby's hand and I was asked to lead us in prayer. I did so and when we were done they thank us and we all hugged and such and we left for a bit.

    Anyways, My girlfriend and I went and had lunch, witnessed to their family (all of them were lost) and invited them to church as much as we could, and decided get the baby a sock monkey and say our last goodbye before heading home. It felt wonderful today to know our friends had a. gotten what they claimed they had (salvation) and b. to be able to go down and just comfort them in a way that only God's children can do for one another.

    I was so excited I called my husband (who is a preacher) and told him everything. When I got to the part about being asked to pray aloud, he told me I was in the wrong for doing it. There was a man present and it was not my place because by doing that I was usurping authority over a man.

    I know my role as a woman based on the scriptures, but I also know that when men are first saved, even though they automatically assume that role of spiritual leader, they still need to be taught. The baby's Dad hasn't even been asked to pray aloud or had to yet so in a way I don't think he really knew how. I mean he knows how to pray but to do it in such a public way (if that makes sense?)... Anyways, I told my husband that since we were the more seasoned Christians in the room, it was our role to spiritually lead in that sense, especially since we were asked to. My husband says I have no scripture to support this and I was in the wrong...

    Yet I have no conviction, and God had laid it on my heart to do that since we had headed down there because I knew no men from our church would be present to pray with them and I felt as a preacher's wife it was my duty... Was I wrong? I don't feel a conviction? Can anyone help point me in the way of scripture that shows that sometimes when a woman is saved before a man she has to be the spiritual leader until the man has learned enough to assume that role?
     
  2. ChristianT

    ChristianT Newbie Orthodox

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    Try:
    *Luke 10:38-42
    *Ephesians 5:22-23

    Notice how in Ephesians, wives are only told to submit "to your own husbands," so therefore: unless you're in a polygamous marriage, it was perfectly all right for you to pray. In the passage from Luke, Jesus–the Son of God–allowed Mary to study the message and lessons of Jesus while Martha thought it was a "woman's duty" to clean and cook for the men.

    So If Jesus was O.K. with Mary partaking in spiritual matters, and Paul's call for submission in spiritual marriage, it was scripturally (as far as I can see) fine for you to pray! :) :amen: :thumbsup: :prayer:
     
  3. ChristianT

    ChristianT Newbie Orthodox

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  4. desmalia

    desmalia sounds like somebody's got a case of the mondays

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    No, because there aren't any. Women are simply not to usurp the roles of men, period. However, in this situation you are talking about praying, not teaching or authority. So I don't see how it's an issue of leadership. I would like to know more about why your husband feels this is a problem. Perhaps there are more details that would help shed some light?
     
  5. xmissjasmine

    xmissjasmine Guest

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    I completely agree that women should not usurp the roles of men, period. But the man in the room had only been saved 10 days. He had wanted us to pray over his baby, and obviously he didn't feel comfortable/lead to do it. God had laid it on my heart on the way there that if we were the only ones there, that we needed to pray over that baby. Now had my husband or a pastor or even another male church member been there, then fine... but there wasn't?

    He feels that since there was a man present in the room (the dad of the baby) that HE should have been the one praying because by me praying it made me look like I had more authority than a man?
     
  6. xmissjasmine

    xmissjasmine Guest

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    Another point I tried to make to him; I was saved before my husband. And when he got saved, he didn't just start making all the spiritual decisions... Not because I didn't want him to, but because he wasn't studied enough to know how.... Once he became studied (which was very quick) he took that role over very quickly... Does that make sense?
     
  7. twin1954

    twin1954 Baptist by the Bible

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    There are actually two problems here: your submission to your husband and you praying over the child. First: I must ask in what way are you being submissive to your husband by coming on a public forum and questioning his authority not only as a pastor but as your husband? If your question his reasons for saying what he did you should go to him with it.
    Second: the Scriptures do not teach that anyone is to " pray over" someone who is sick. The term, while Biblical, has taken on a most unbiblical connotation. The one place we are told to do so is James 5:14. It says that the elders are to be called and that they should pray over the sick one.

    Don't misunderstand, I have no problem with praying for the sick child or anyone else. But I think in the situation that you were in perhaps it should have been a silent prayer if the father, after being asked, was uncomfortable praying publically.

    It makes no difference how new a believer is all believers know how to pray. Prayer is nothing more and nothing less than the cry of the heart to Christ.
     
  8. desmalia

    desmalia sounds like somebody's got a case of the mondays

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    Well said. This seems to be about attitude, not about actually praying in a crisis situation.

    Additionally, as women we need to be extremely careful not to jump in and take over just because a man is a newer Christian. It doesn't excuse their responsibilities or give us license to usurp their roles. To do so is to take matters into our own hands instead of trusting God.
     
  9. SharonL

    SharonL Senior Veteran

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    Good ole legalism - you did fine, you chose God's leading instead of man made legalism. God has a plan for your life also and we are each to witness and carry God's love. This has much bigger meaning than stepping out and following God's leading. You did not usurp any authority - I cannot believe some of the answers here. Each person is an individual and God has plans for each of us and they are not always the shadow of our husband.
     
  10. WilliamB

    WilliamB Well-Known Member

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    First, "usurp" means to take a position by force. I see no such thing going on here.

    Secondly, you feel no conviction because it does not conflict with the laws God wrote on your heart and here's why:

    There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28

    Third, your husband could stand to learn a thing or two about the above passage but I also believe at this point, you should go and defer to your husband so that he too can be enlightened. God does not do His will based on gender. He does His will based on who is best equipped to carry out His good works.

    I personally think you did well by obeying the Spirit in you. He is your guide and will lead you into all righteousness and Truth. Loving one another as yourself, does not have a gender clause.
     
  11. SharonL

    SharonL Senior Veteran

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Great points
     
  12. IisJustMe

    IisJustMe He rescued me because He delighted in me (Ps18:19)

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    Your husband is wrong. So are most who claim that women are not to lead public prayer. It simply isn't true. The favorite verse of those who claim this is not allowed is 1 Timothy 2:8, which states: Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension.

    That does not mean men only are to pray in public prayer. It simply means to take prayer outside of church. It belongs everywhere. Women are just as able and ordained to pray when called upon or when others need to be led rather than do the leading. The disciples of Christ must be praying people; all, without distinction of nation, sect, rank, or party.
     
  13. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    hi missjasmine,

    Praying is never condemned no matter who does it. The Scriptures encourage believers in all things to make their petitions known to God through prayer and supplication. No gender rules in prayer as far as I can tell.

    I personally am not convicted that even in the fellowship of believers in worship that prayer by a woman is condemned. I don't believe that when Paul admonished women to be silent in worship that he didn't mean as soon as you walk in the door you have to shut your yap and not open it again until you walk out. I believe the restriction is for teaching because he goes on to say that if a woman has a question she should ask her husband. I'm pretty confident that the questions he's referring to would be those concerning what was being taught. I don't think it intends that the wife looks to her husband and says something like, "Honey, would you go over and ask Barbara if that's a rayon or silk blouse she has on?"

    As far as I can tell there is no condemnation in asking of our Father for whatever we need in prayer both by men and women. Secondly, and probably even more to the point, you weren't in 'church' correct? You were at the hospital. There's nothing about women keeping silent outside the fellowship of the believers. Lord wouldn't they all just implode, LOL!

    I would genltly encourage your husband to teach you where he came to his understanding. What verses in the Scriptures specifically speak to prayer and especially prayer outside of woship. I don't think he will find any basis for condemnation of a woman speaking about whatever they want, assuming it is godly speaking, outside of the 'church'. The gathering of the believers in worship.

    God bless you,
    IN Christ, Ted

    God bless you.
    In Christ, Ted
     
  14. dies-l

    dies-l Guest

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    Personally, I believe that your husband's position is incorrect. However, your husband is still your husband and is the spiritual leader of biblically proper and healthy marriage. If your husband says that you should have handled it differently, I would say first that you cannot go back and change the past so there is no use being upset over it. You did what you believed to be right in the situation. But, submission to your husband's spiritual authority means following his guidance, even if you disagree with it, so long as he is sincerely trying to guide you correctly.

    Now, in regard to his position, I see nothing to indicate that you "usurped" authority over a man. If a man freely allows a woman to pray or even teach, there is in my opinion, nothing problematic about that. It is when a woman (or anyone for that matter) goes over the head of a man who has been placed in a position of leadership (e.g., husband, pastor, father, etc.) that we have a problem. Nothing in your scenario indicates otherwise. But, once again, if your husband disagrees with me, he is your husband and spiritual leader, not I, so follow his lead not mine or anyone else's.
     
  15. Blessedj01

    Blessedj01 Guest

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    I don't see that you tried to become a "spiritual leader" to this man, or that you "usurped" anybody. I think prayer is a different thing. Didn't Jesus heal the sick on the Sabbath? Isn't it the intention that matters more? That doing God's work is more important? You didn't disregard your husband either, though whether you are now or not is another matter completely. I'm not sure why your husband should choose to focus on this aspect of the story either, rather than focusing on the prayer for a sick child. God wants us to pray right? I've got no problem with women praying for me, or for anyone who needs prayer at any time, period. I think this story demonstrates legalism gone wrong.
     
  16. His_disciple3

    His_disciple3 Newbie

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    I have somewhat against this post for Gal. 3:28 is directly speaking of salvation only, and we have no contradictions in the Holy Word of God and other scriptures do distinguish a difference between male or female, "the Bishop must be the Husband of one wife" 1 Tim. 3:2

    as to the opening post. I will not come between you and your Husband, I do have a problem with you deciding to open this matter up to all. now I am not saying your husband was right, but I have not Heard your husband's reasoning So I can not say, but You know yourself that some baptist separate men and women prayer groups, as this was the practice in the Jewish temples as well. however I think we could find scripture that would not encourage that practice, outside the Church. for they gathered at mary's house to pray for Peter while he was in prison (Acts 12:12 but even the scriptures tell you that you are to ask your husband of scriptural matters, so I feel you are wrong trying to find someone in this forum to agree with you, so that you can go back to your husband and say hey you were wrong, pray for this situation, as well as you could have very well said that you have a need, that you would like all in here to pray about for you.
     
  17. WilliamB

    WilliamB Well-Known Member

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    Boy how people just love to be under the yoke of the law. Free them from one law and they'll just create another. Love has no boundaries and there are no laws to prevent it. There is a reason God created woman from the rib.

    1. It's because the ribs protect the heart
    2. It's because women are to stand beside man. Not in front and certainly not behind, but beside man.

    If you're husband is wrong, it's your job to help him see the truth. You don't follow your husband off a spiritual cliff. You're partners in your walk. You need to be strong when he is weak and he needs to be strong when you are weak. Dominance or submission based on ignorance, leaves the whole family ignorant.

    The reason this was an issue at the time of Christ, is because woman were not allowed to read scripture and in many cases couldn't read at all. This is no longer the case. Women can be just as knowledgable about the Word as men. And in many cases, understand love for one another far better than the prideful, selfish and arrogant man of today.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  18. Boidae

    Boidae Senior Veteran

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    ^This

    Then again, I have no issues with women teaching me or leading prayer, but then I live in an egalitarian marriage, so it kinda all goes together.
     
  19. His_disciple3

    His_disciple3 Newbie

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    If You love Keep my Commandments a quote From Jesus Christ Himself, they kept the old testament law to be righteous, we (The new testament) folks keep the law because we are righteous. Jesus said if thy lust after another woman, ye have already committed adultery, is this Jesus freeing us to commit adultery, or having freedom to turn from sin? the verse I quoted is found in the new testament, " a bishop is to be the husband of one wife. this goes all the way back to the garden, before the law, the wife was to be under the husband and have pains in child bearing, has this curse been broken do women still have pain in child bearing, Jesus gave us 2 commandments and said they were not grievious, to love God with all we got and then love one another, To love God or please God we have to have standards, God set a curse on woman and man in the garden, scriptures tells us that what ever God has blessed no man can curse, or what He has cursed no man can bless, but I guess women can raised themselves above God and Bless women over men and call anyone who says that If God cursed women in the garden and no one should try to break that curse, well we will just call them prideful selfish and arrogant men, who don't love their wives because they want them to please God.

    no the reason women were treated the way they were in Jesus' days is Because God cursed women in the beginning, as he cursed man as well:

    Genesis 3:16
    16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
    KJV
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  20. WilliamB

    WilliamB Well-Known Member

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    The new testament is not a new set of laws. There is only one law and that's the 10 commandments. He didnt free us from one law to put us under another. If you want to take them that way, that is your right. The righteous dont need laws because He wrote His laws on our hearts. How could one commit adultery if youre loving one another as yourself? Its impossible.

    It's impossible to violate any of the 10 commandments if you're loving God and loving one another. These 2 commands are sufficient in keeping the whole law. Thus, the OP is in now way in violation of the law, as she was operating in love for one another. Operating in love, does not lead to sin. Period! It's impossible! Trying to prevent someone from operating in love, is only standing in the way of Gods works, for selfish ideals. A good man, operating in love and not law, would know that. Since you argue to be under a law, you must keep the whole law. So answer these:

    Do you permit women to speak in church?
    Do you have a store or sell things in church?
    Do you keep the sabbath Holy or did you move it Sunday?
    Did you sell everything you own and give it all to the church or the poor?

    The point is, we can't even keep the only law He gave us without love and thats why He freed us from the law so we could operate in love. If you're teaching law over love, I will pray for you. God Bless!
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2012