Hebrews 10:26 / 6:4-6 / 12:14-17

[JLR1300]

Someone said...

"this passage of Scripture gives us the most detailed description of what it means to be saved that we find anywhere in the Bible,"

I would disagree with that. Does it say that they were Elected before the foundation of the World?... does it say that they were redeemed by the blood of Christ? Does it say that they were Regenerated? Born Again? that they had faith in Jesus? That they were JUSTIFIED? That they were SAVED? That they were ADOPTED AS SONS? That they were sanctified? That they were predestined to be glorified? That they know God? Did it call them Saints? That they were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise?

These are the things that are said about the turly saved. Instead it is simply said that they were enlightened ...not regenerated or born again. It says that they had only tasted the heavenly gift. Jesus said "I am the living bread... if anyone EATS of this bread He will live forever" Tasting isn't eating. We do know that since they had lived in the time of Christ and Had seen Him or his Apostles perform miracles by the Holy Spirit that they were therefore partakers of the Holy Spirit in some sense ...but it doesn't say that they were "sealed by the Holy Spirit" which is said of true believers. They had also only "tasted" the good word of God and the powers of the age to come since they had heard the preaching of God's word and had seen the miracles of the Apostles... but lots of people had heard the word and seen miracles.

I do admit that at first glance it being impossible to renew them to repentance is the most problematic one for the person who believes in the security of the believer but if we remember the situation it isn't really hard to understand.

The book of Hebrews was written to Jewish people who left the Jewish religion and joined the Christian people. They had changed their minds (repented) with regards to Judaism and publicaly joined the Christian movement. But then they changed their minds again (repented) and went back to the Jewish religion. So you are not going to be able to change their minds again and get them to come and join the Christian religion again. Outwardly leaving one institutional religion and joining another and then going back to the first one is a type of changing your mind or repentance but it isn't necessarily the repentance that truly saves. The repentance that saves is to change your mind about trusting works for salvation and to genuinely trust Christ and his blood alone for salvation. Lots of people repent (change their minds) about Islam or something and join a christian group and then later change their minds and go back to the first group and yet they were never really saved.... because they just changed their minds about which group to worship with.

So the people Hebrews 6 is talking about came really close to salvation. They changed their minds (repented) of being Jews and Joined Christianity at least outwardly ...They were enlightened in many ways, and tasted a little here and nibbled a little there... heard the word of God preached... etc. But then they left and went back to the Judaism.

Now the Apostle John said that these people weren't ever really saved... In 1st John 2:19 He says of those who joined the Christian movement and then later left the Christian movement..."They went out from us but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us, but they went out that they might be made manifest that NONE of them were of us."

John 6:39 Jesus said... "This is the will of the Father who sent me (Jesus always does God's will) that of all He has given me I should lose nothing but should raise it up at the last day" Christ won't lose any that the Father chose and gave to Him to keep.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Someone said...

"this passage of Scripture gives us the most detailed description of what it means to be saved that we find anywhere in the Bible,"

I would disagree with that. Does it say that they were Elected before the foundation of the World?... does it say that they were redeemed by the blood of Christ? Does it say that they were Regenerated? Born Again? that they had faith in Jesus? That they were JUSTIFIED? That they were SAVED? That they were ADOPTED AS SONS? That they were sanctified? That they were predestined to be glorified? That they know God? Did it call them Saints? That they were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise?

These are the things that are said about the turly saved. Instead it is simply said that they were enlightened ...not regenerated or born again. It says that they had only tasted the heavenly gift. Jesus said "I am the living bread... if anyone EATS of this bread He will live forever" Tasting isn't eating. We do know that since they had lived in the time of Christ and Had seen Him or his Apostles perform miracles by the Holy Spirit that they were therefore partakers of the Holy Spirit in some sense ...but it doesn't say that they were "sealed by the Holy Spirit" which is said of true believers. They had also only "tasted" the good word of God and the powers of the age to come since they had heard the preaching of God's word and had seen the miracles of the Apostles... but lots of people had heard the word and seen miracles.

Anihilus,

I believe that a good place to start is getting a good handle on the word apostate. An apostate is a person who has committed apostasy. The word apostasy came into the English language in the 14th century from the Late Latin word apostasia, which came into Latin from the Greek word aphistasthai, a compound word from apo, with the root meaning of off, away from, and histasthai meaning to stand. This word is found in the New Testament in the following places:

Acts 21:21 21. and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. (NASB, 1995)

2 Thess. 2:3. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, (NASB, 1995)

Therefore an apostate is someone who had taken a stand for Christ, a Christian, but one who is now standing away from Christ, having forsaken Him. Some people, including the large majority of Baptists but the minority of Christians, believe that it is impossible for a Christian to forsake Christ and thus lose his salvation. This concept, however, is relatively new to the Christian faith, first being introduced in the 16th century having been conceived as a consequence of a new and incorrect understanding of the sovereignty of God. Indeed, many of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers explicitly wrote of Christians who committed apostasy and lost their salvation because it. And the Scriptures, in many places, explicitly say that it is possible in a manner so very clearly that they were never interpreted to say otherwise until the 16th century. For an example, let us look at one of the three Scriptures in the title of your post,

Heb. 6:4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
7. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8. but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
9. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. (NASB, 1995)

Up until the 16th century this passage was universally interpreted as teaching that a Christian could lose his salvation, and the large majority of Bible scholars today still hold to that position. Indeed, this passage of Scripture gives us the most detailed description of what it means to be saved that we find anywhere in the Bible, and the end of these saved persons who subsequently fall away from the Christian faith is eternal damnation in the fires of hell.

The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews wrote his Epistle using the terminology and phraseology of the very early Church. Therefore, in order to accurately interpret the Epistle to the Hebrews it is essential to have a solid background in the writings of the very early Church and the terminology and phraseology that they used.

The phrase in verse 4, “those who have once been enlightened,” is a reference to water baptism. Indeed, Justin Martyr (died in 165 A.D.) wrote that the term “enlightenment” was used as a synonym for water baptism of converts to Christianity and he uses the term “the enlightened one” for a person who has been baptized. And the Peshitta, an ancient Syriac translation of the Greek New Testament, renders (when translated into English) the phrase in verse 4, “who have gone down into baptism.”

The phrase in verse 4, “have tasted of the heavenly gift,” was variously interpreted during the first 1500 years, but it was ALWAYS interpreted as describing a born-again Christian. Some, for example, saw it to be a reference to the Eucharist; others saw it to be a reference to the teaching of Christ in John 6:31-58. Still others saw it to be a reference to the forgiveness of sins; others saw it to be a reference to the blessings conferred upon the Christian believer.

The phrase in verse 4, “and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,” is an obvious reference to receiving the Holy Spirit, something that, in the New Testament, happens EXCLUSIVELY to those who have been saved.

The phrase in verse 5, “and have tasted the good word of God,” is a clear reference to the Christian’s experience of hearing the word of God preached and taught and the consequential experience of it in his life as a believer.

The phrase in verse 5, “and the powers of the age to come,” is a reference to the miracles that were performed by the Apostles and other Christians as a foreshadowing of the kingdom to come, and to the other blessings that Christians experience now in part but shall experience in their fullness in the future kingdom.

The phrase in verse 6, “and then have fallen away,” can be properly interpreted only to be speaking of falling from grace and the Christian faith, something that can NOT happen until AFTER a person is saved.

The phrases in verse 6, “it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame,” tell us of the absolutely horrendous consequence of a Christian falling from grace, making the death of Christ on the cross for his sins to be of no effect. This passage expressly speaks of a person who has heard the Gospel, believed it, was saved and baptized, repented of his sins, and enjoyed the blessing of being a born-again Christian—but who subsequently chose to reject Christ and return to his sins. And the fate of such a person could not possibly be any worse—it is “impossible to renew them again to repentance.” Most obviously it is not impossible to renew an unsaved person to repentance if they have repented but not been born again and then fall back into sin. Therefore the person spoken of has necessarily been born again but has fallen away from the Christian faith. And the born-again Christian who, of his own free will, chooses to reject the Christ who redeemed him is beyond redemption and damned to the fires of hell for eternity.

Verses 7 & 8 are an analogy used to support the author’s statements. Just as the ground which once brought forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled received a blessing from God, and the ground that now yields thorns and thistles is worthless and ends up being burned, so the Christian which once brought forth good fruit unto God but who now brings forth bad fruit ends up being burned in the fires of hell.

Verse 9 tells us that the author has been warning his Christian readers about things that do not accompany salvation, things that happen to Christians who fall away from the faith. Nonetheless, he is reassuring them that that he does not expect them to fall away, as some others had done, but is convinced of better things concerning them, and things that, in their case, accompany salvation, even though he felt that he needed to warn them of the horrendous consequences of apostasy from the Christian faith.

Only Christians can fall away from the Christian faith.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

I do admit that at first glance it being impossible to renew them to repentance is the most problematic one for the person who believes in the security of the believer but if we remember the situation it isn't really hard to understand.

The book of Hebrews was written to Jewish people who left the Jewish religion and joined the Christian people. They had changed their minds (repented) with regards to Judaism and publicaly joined the Christian movement. But then they changed their minds again (repented) and went back to the Jewish religion. So you are not going to be able to change their minds again and get them to come and join the Christian religion again. Outwardly leaving one institutional religion and joining another and then going back to the first one is a type of changing your mind or repentance but it isn't necessarily the repentance that truly saves. The repentance that saves is to change your mind about trusting works for salvation and to genuinely trust Christ and his blood alone for salvation. Lots of people repent (change their minds) about Islam or something and join a christian group and then later change their minds and go back to the first group and yet they were never really saved.... because they just changed their minds about which group to worship with.

So the people Hebrews 6 is talking about came really close to salvation. They changed their minds (repented) of being Jews and Joined Christianity at least outwardly ...They were enlightened in many ways, and tasted a little here and nibbled a little there... heard the word of God preached... etc. But then they left and went back to the Judaism.

When a Jew under the Law believes the gospel, the Bible does not say that he “repented” of being a Jew under the Law.

Now the Apostle John said that these people weren't ever really saved... In 1st John 2:19 He says of those who joined the Christian movement and then later left the Christian movement..."They went out from us but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us, but they went out that they might be made manifest that NONE of them were of us."

The First Epistle of John was NOT written to the same community as the recipients of the Epistle to the Hebrews, and John NEVER wrote or implied that the persons written of in Hebrews 6:4-8 were not true Christians. Indeed, NO ONE wrote that the persons written of in Hebrews 6:4-8 were not true Christians until the 16th century!

 

[PrincetonGuy]

John 6:39 Jesus said... "This is the will of the Father who sent me (Jesus always does God's will) that of all He has given me I should lose nothing but should raise it up at the last day" Christ won't lose any that the Father chose and gave to Him to keep.

John 6:37. “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38. “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39. “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
40. “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
41. Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.”
42. They were saying, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, ‘I have come down out of heaven’?”
43. Jesus answered and said to them, “Do not grumble among yourselves.
44. “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.”

What occasioned Jesus to say these words, and what did He mean by them? The answer to those questions is learned from the context in which they are found. For that, we need to backup to v. 22,

22. The next day the crowd that stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was no other small boat there, except one, and that Jesus had not entered with His disciples into the boat, but that His disciples had gone away alone.
23. There came other small boats from Tiberias near to the place where they ate the bread after the Lord had given thanks.
24. So when the crowd saw that Jesus was not there, nor His disciples, they themselves got into the small boats, and came to Capernaum seeking Jesus.
25. When they found Him on the other side of the sea, they said to Him, “Rabbi, when did You get here?”
26. Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.
27. “Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
28. Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?”
29. Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
30. So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform?
31. “Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘HE GAVE THEM BREAD OUT OF HEAVEN TO EAT.’”
32. Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven.
33. “For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”
34. Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.”
35. Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.
36. “But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.”

We can see immediately from the above verses that the conversation between Jesus and this crowed was confrontational and that the crowd consisted of a group of selfish Jews who were more interested in getting free food to eat (v. 26) than they were in partaking of the Bread of Life. Jesus responded to their worldly, selfish attitude by saying,

27. “Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”
28. Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?”
29. Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Jesus goes here right to the heart of the matter—they MUST “work” for the food which endures to eternal life (v. 27). The Jews respond by asking Him what that “work” is that they must perform (v. 28). He replies (v. 29) that the work of God that they must perform is believing “in Him whom He has sent.” There is no imaginative play on words here, no change in the use of the genitive case, no exegetically sound way out of this one! Jesus is telling this crowd of Jews that the work of God that they must perform is believing “in Him whom He has sent.”

In verse 30, the Jews ask Jesus, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work (the same Greek word) do You perform?” They tell Jesus that God gave their fathers manna in the wilderness, and Jesus replies that, “it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven.” Notice that God gives the true bread, but that He gives it to those persons whom perform the work of God, that is, to those persons who believe in Him whom He has sent.”

In verse 37, Jesus says to these Jews, “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.” To whom does the word “all” in this verse apply? It applies to all those persons who perform the work of God, believing in Him whom the Father has sent (v. 29), so that the Father can give them to Jesus. All of those persons who perform the work of God, believing in Him whom the Father has sent, will come to Jesus. The Father gives the believers to Jesus, and the believers come to Jesus. In verse 39, Jesus says it is His Father’s will that none of those believers whom His Father gives to Him be lost by Him. The Greek verb translated here as ‘lost’ is in the active voice and the aorist tense indicating that the action spoken of is on the part of Jesus rather on the part of the believers, and that the action is punctiliar rather than continuous. Jesus does not lose apostates—apostates lose Jesus and the eternal life found only in Him.

Moreover, in John 17:12, Jesus, speaking to His Father, says that His Father gave Judas to Him, but that Judas was lost!

12. “While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.”

Furthermore, as the linguist and Bible scholar Adam Clarke wrote, “It is the will of God that every soul who believes should continue in the faith, and have a resurrection unto life eternal. But he wills this continuance in salvation, without purposing to force the persons so to continue. God may will a thing to be, without willing that it shall be.”


In John chapter 6 we find, therefore, Jesus expressly teaching these Jews that, in order to be saved and have eternal life, they must perform the work of God, believing in Him whom the Father has sent. God’s work is to give Jesus to the sinner; the sinner’s work is to believe in Jesus whom the father has sent.

John 6:29. Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

(All quotations from Scripture are from the Updated NASB, 1995)

 

[98cwitr]

Partaker in hebrews 6 translates as the following:

γεύομαι,v \{ghyoo'-om-ahee}
1) to taste, to try the flavour of 2) to taste 2a) i.e. perceive the flavour of, partake of, enjoy 2b) to feel, make trial of, experience 3) to take food, eat, to take nourishment, eat

Makes me think of people who go to church, surround themselves with the elect, and yet are not of them. Even Judas was at the Last Supper.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Partaker in hebrews 6 translates as the following:

γεύομαι,v \{ghyoo'-om-ahee}
1) to taste, to try the flavour of 2) to taste 2a) i.e. perceive the flavour of, partake of, enjoy 2b) to feel, make trial of, experience 3) to take food, eat, to take nourishment, eat

Makes me think of people who go to church, surround themselves with the elect, and yet are not of them. Even Judas was at the Last Supper.

David L Allen, Dean of the school of theology and Professor of preaching and director of the Center of Biblical Preaching at Southwestern Baptist Seminary, argues from a detailed analysis of the Greek Grammar, the choice of Greek words used, and the history of the interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-8 that genuine Christians are in view rather than unbelievers. On the phrase “have tasted of the heavenly gift,” he writes*,

The “heavenly gift” is a euphemism for salvation, which the readers have “tasted.” The Greek word for “tasted” is the same here as in v. 5 and is used metaphorically indicating “to eat or drink,” thus experiencing something fully, not merely superficial participation in something. There is no connotation in the word itself of tasting but not swallowing. This can be seen from the usage in Heb 2:9 where Jesus “tasted” death for everyone, meaning he experienced the full force of physical death.

On page 353 he writes,

Precisely how an unsaved person can possess a spiritual gift is a mystery left unexplained. Grudem’s treatment of Heb. 6:4-6 illustrates the tendentious nature of much of the Calvinistic exegesis of this passage.
The sheer force of the descriptive phrases militates against such an interpretation [that unsaved persons are being spoken of]. How can it be conceived that such descriptive phrases as enlightenment, experience of the heavenly gift of salvation, full sharing in the Holy Spirit, sharing in the Word of God and the powers of the coming age, do not have believers as their referent. Each of these statements finds their counterparts scattered throughout the New Testament, and when used in the same context as here, they refer to those who are genuine believers. . . . At issue is whether unsaved people can be so described by an author who thinks or knows them to be unsaved. The issue of determining their status is not the point for the author. By the descriptive language he chooses, he indicates their status as believers. Had the author wanted to convey their status as unbelievers, he could have done so. There is no direct statement that those described in Heb. 6:4-6 were unbelievers. If the author is referring to unsaved people, this is the only place in the New Testament where such language can be said to be used in this fashion.

*Allen, David L. Hebrews, Volume 35 of the New American Commentary. Nashville: B & H Publishing Group, 2010.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Hebrews 10:29. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

People who are merely claiming to be saved have not been sanctified by the blood of Christ Jesus. Therefore we know for a fact from Scripture itself that a man who has been both saved and sanctified has the potential of,

• Trampling under foot the Son of God
• Regarding as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified
• Insulting the Spirit of grace.

And for doing these sinful things, the reward is NOT salvation; the reward is the VENGEANCE of God.

30. For we know Him who said, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY.” And again, “THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.”
31. It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

(All quotations from Scripture are from the NASB, 1995)

 

[corinth77777]

In the book...of Hebrew....Those people spoken of as being Partakers...are still used as a hypothetical situation..to show why the Hebrews which custom and religion was Jew...why they should move forward in faith. THE author doesnt know which Hebrew accepted Christ...but can see obviously that many are doing and hearing things that are not
Right......The major point I want to show is that the Law was still spirutual...the law also showed a taste..because they were shadows of the real thing...but now once Jesus Christ is made known....one is either cut off because of unbelief...or..they believe and bear fruit...examples the author used..was when one believes they cease from their own works...Those in the wilderness had the father working miracles...for 40 years and still...had unbelief...so never entered his rest...He said to them...So by their actions some..by what the author is saying havent entered....If the purpose of a tree is to bear fruit...in season....those branches have had a part..in the tree..yet..are now cut off because of unbelief...I can see the example of the wilderness the same..because
The promise land was a symbol of God's rest..Jesus. Recall how he states..they received the gospel just like we have.
One can partake in a call to be saved...and not partake in salvation. SO THE BEGINNING of confidence is upon being called through the word....and the end may be faith....because vs 3; 14.....and the meaning of 4; 14

 

[98cwitr]

David L Allen, Dean of the school of theology and Professor of preaching and director of the Center of Biblical Preaching at Southwestern Baptist Seminary, argues from a detailed analysis of the Greek Grammar, the choice of Greek words used, and the history of the interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-8 that genuine Christians are in view rather than unbelievers. On the phrase “have tasted of the heavenly gift,” he writes*,

The “heavenly gift” is a euphemism for salvation, which the readers have “tasted.” The Greek word for “tasted” is the same here as in v. 5 and is used metaphorically indicating “to eat or drink,” thus experiencing something fully, not merely superficial participation in something. There is no connotation in the word itself of tasting but not swallowing. This can be seen from the usage in Heb 2:9 where Jesus “tasted” death for everyone, meaning he experienced the full force of physical death.

On page 353 he writes,

Precisely how an unsaved person can possess a spiritual gift is a mystery left unexplained. Grudem’s treatment of Heb. 6:4-6 illustrates the tendentious nature of much of the Calvinistic exegesis of this passage.
The sheer force of the descriptive phrases militates against such an interpretation [that unsaved persons are being spoken of]. How can it be conceived that such descriptive phrases as enlightenment, experience of the heavenly gift of salvation, full sharing in the Holy Spirit, sharing in the Word of God and the powers of the coming age, do not have believers as their referent. Each of these statements finds their counterparts scattered throughout the New Testament, and when used in the same context as here, they refer to those who are genuine believers. . . . At issue is whether unsaved people can be so described by an author who thinks or knows them to be unsaved. The issue of determining their status is not the point for the author. By the descriptive language he chooses, he indicates their status as believers. Had the author wanted to convey their status as unbelievers, he could have done so. There is no direct statement that those described in Heb. 6:4-6 were unbelievers. If the author is referring to unsaved people, this is the only place in the New Testament where such language can be said to be used in this fashion.

*Allen, David L. Hebrews, Volume 35 of the New American Commentary. Nashville: B & H Publishing Group, 2010.

"believers"...there's a word that is commonly misrepresented imo. It's errantly used to refer to the elect, the saved, the faithful...and yet even the devil "believes." There's a stark difference between, in my opinion, belief and real, saving faith. See Hebrews 11.

 

[JLR1300]

There are things that MIGHT indicate that you are a doctor and there are things that pretty much PROVE that you are.

Things that might indicate you are a Doctor.

-You graduated from High School.
-You went to college.
-You wear a white overcoat.
-You sometimes wear a stethoscope
-You went to graduate school
-You drive a Mercedes
-You read medical books

These are all things that are said about Doctors from time to time right? Right. So then they prove that you are a Doctor right? Wrong. These things do NOT accompany being a Doctor… not necessarily.

Here are some things that pretty much PROVE you are a Doctor.

-You have a degree in Medicine.
-You graduated from Medical school.
-You are called “Doctor” by other Doctors
-You regularly perform brain surgery.
-You prescribe medicine.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT ACCOMPANY BEING A DOCTOR.

Now in Hebrews 6 after the writer said that some had been enlightened and had tasted the word etc. he then said to the others in verse 9...

“But beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation.”

The writer did not think that the things which he spoke about the first group accompanied salvation…not necessarily. They did not really prove that they had salvation.

Just like with the illustration about the Doctor some things MIGHT indicate that they had been Christians…

-They were enlightened to some extent or other.
-They had at least tasted of the heavenly gift.
-They had become partakers of the Holy Spirit at least in some sense (because the Spirit convicted them of sin and of righteousness and of the judgment and also they had seen the miracles the Apostles performed by the Power of the Holy Spirit.
-They tasted the word of God by hearing the preaching of the gospel.
-They had at least tasted the powers of the age to come.

So is it true that these things MIGHT indicate that they were Christians? Yes. Do these things PROVE that they were Christians? No.

Here are the things that would have pretty much proved that they were Christians if the writer of Hebrews had said these things...

-They were born again.
-They were elect
-They know God.
-They were Justified.
-They were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise.
-They had eternal life.
-They were saved.
-They believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.
-They were Saints.

These are things that accompany salvation. The first group of things don’t necessarily accompany salvation. They could indicate that they might have salvation but they don’t necessarily accompany salvation… at least not according to the writers of Hebrews.

I know that, to some people, the list given by the writer of Hebrews accompanies salvation. But not to the writer of Hebrews. After giving the list about the first group He says that He is convinced of better things regarding the second group of people… yes, things that accompany salvation.

I think if we understand what faith in Jesus really is we will understand passages like this better. Some people see faith as believing that Jesus is Divine or that Jesus died for our sins or that Jesus rose again etc. Those things are all true. But here is what faith is. Faith is believing that Jesus paid for all your sins… past, present and future and therefore He saves you personally. He paid for all your sins and thus, you are automatically and permanently rescued from the wrath of God. Faith is believing that Christ saves you and that He alone does it without any help from you. That is trusting in Him for salvation.

Here are things that do not qualify as faith.
1. Believing that Jesus’ blood covers your past sins but not your future ones.

2. Believing that He gets you half way to heaven… and by your works and perseverance you make it the rest of the way.

3. Believing that He saves you but you can lose it if you don’t maintain good works. That means you are depending on yourself for salvation and it makes Christianity a works religion.

4. Believing that faith isn’t a gift. He does His part by providing salvation and you do your part by adding faith which comes from you not from God. This is actually trusting yourself for part of your salvation instead of Christ alone.

Make sure that you believe on Christ alone for salvation and do not look to yourself.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

There are things that MIGHT indicate that you are a doctor and there are things that pretty much PROVE that you are.

Things that might indicate you are a Doctor.

-You graduated from High School.
-You went to college.
-You wear a white overcoat.
-You sometimes wear a stethoscope
-You went to graduate school
-You drive a Mercedes
-You read medical books

These are all things that are said about Doctors from time to time right? Right. So then they prove that you are a Doctor right? Wrong. These things do NOT accompany being a Doctor… not necessarily.

Here are some things that pretty much PROVE you are a Doctor.

-You have a degree in Medicine.
-You graduated from Medical school.
-You are called “Doctor” by other Doctors
-You regularly perform brain surgery.
-You prescribe medicine.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT ACCOMPANY BEING A DOCTOR.

Now in Hebrews 6 after the writer said that some had been enlightened and had tasted the word etc. he then said to the others in verse 9...

“But beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation.”

The writer did not think that the things which he spoke about the first group accompanied salvation…not necessarily. They did not really prove that they had salvation.

Just like with the illustration about the Doctor some things MIGHT indicate that they had been Christians…

-They were enlightened to some extent or other.
-They had at least tasted of the heavenly gift.
-They had become partakers of the Holy Spirit at least in some sense (because the Spirit convicted them of sin and of righteousness and of the judgment and also they had seen the miracles the Apostles performed by the Power of the Holy Spirit.
-They tasted the word of God by hearing the preaching of the gospel.
-They had at least tasted the powers of the age to come.

So is it true that these things MIGHT indicate that they were Christians? Yes. Do these things PROVE that they were Christians? No.

Here are the things that would have pretty much proved that they were Christians if the writer of Hebrews had said these things...

-They were born again.
-They were elect
-They know God.
-They were Justified.
-They were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise.
-They had eternal life.
-They were saved.
-They believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.
-They were Saints.

These are things that accompany salvation. The first group of things don’t necessarily accompany salvation. They could indicate that they might have salvation but they don’t necessarily accompany salvation… at least not according to the writers of Hebrews.

I know that, to some people, the list given by the writer of Hebrews accompanies salvation. But not to the writer of Hebrews. After giving the list about the first group He says that He is convinced of better things regarding the second group of people… yes, things that accompany salvation.

I think if we understand what faith in Jesus really is we will understand passages like this better. Some people see faith as believing that Jesus is Divine or that Jesus died for our sins or that Jesus rose again etc. Those things are all true. But here is what faith is. Faith is believing that Jesus paid for all your sins… past, present and future and therefore He saves you personally. He paid for all your sins and thus, you are automatically and permanently rescued from the wrath of God. Faith is believing that Christ saves you and that He alone does it without any help from you. That is trusting in Him for salvation.

Here are things that do not qualify as faith.
1. Believing that Jesus’ blood covers your past sins but not your future ones.

2. Believing that He gets you half way to heaven… and by your works and perseverance you make it the rest of the way.

3. Believing that He saves you but you can lose it if you don’t maintain good works. That means you are depending on yourself for salvation and it makes Christianity a works religion.

4. Believing that faith isn’t a gift. He does His part by providing salvation and you do your part by adding faith which comes from you not from God. This is actually trusting yourself for part of your salvation instead of Christ alone.

Make sure that you believe on Christ alone for salvation and do not look to yourself.

Heb. 6:9. But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. (NASB, 1995)

Verse 9 tells us that the author has been warning his Christian readers about things that do not accompany salvation, things that happen to Christians who fall away from the faith. Nonetheless, he is reassuring them that that he does not expect them to fall away, as some others had done, but is convinced of better things concerning them, and things that, in their case, accompany salvation, even though he felt that he needed to warn them of the horrendous consequences of apostasy from the Christian faith.

 

[98cwitr]

well stated, JLR

 

[JLR1300]

Thanks 98 : )

 

[PrincetonGuy]

There are things that MIGHT indicate that you are a doctor and there are things that pretty much PROVE that you are.

Things that might indicate you are a Doctor.

-You graduated from High School.
-You went to college.
-You wear a white overcoat.
-You sometimes wear a stethoscope
-You went to graduate school
-You drive a Mercedes
-You read medical books

These are all things that are said about Doctors from time to time right? Right. So then they prove that you are a Doctor right? Wrong. These things do NOT accompany being a Doctor… not necessarily.

Here are some things that pretty much PROVE you are a Doctor.

-You have a degree in Medicine.
-You graduated from Medical school.
-You are called “Doctor” by other Doctors
-You regularly perform brain surgery.
-You prescribe medicine.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT ACCOMPANY BEING A DOCTOR.

Now in Hebrews 6 after the writer said that some had been enlightened and had tasted the word etc. he then said to the others in verse 9...

“But beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation.”

The writer did not think that the things which he spoke about the first group accompanied salvation…not necessarily. They did not really prove that they had salvation.

Just like with the illustration about the Doctor some things MIGHT indicate that they had been Christians…

-They were enlightened to some extent or other.
-They had at least tasted of the heavenly gift.
-They had become partakers of the Holy Spirit at least in some sense (because the Spirit convicted them of sin and of righteousness and of the judgment and also they had seen the miracles the Apostles performed by the Power of the Holy Spirit.
-They tasted the word of God by hearing the preaching of the gospel.
-They had at least tasted the powers of the age to come.

So is it true that these things MIGHT indicate that they were Christians? Yes. Do these things PROVE that they were Christians? No.

Here are the things that would have pretty much proved that they were Christians if the writer of Hebrews had said these things...

-They were born again.
-They were elect
-They know God.
-They were Justified.
-They were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise.
-They had eternal life.
-They were saved.
-They believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.
-They were Saints.

These are things that accompany salvation. The first group of things don’t necessarily accompany salvation. They could indicate that they might have salvation but they don’t necessarily accompany salvation… at least not according to the writers of Hebrews.

I know that, to some people, the list given by the writer of Hebrews accompanies salvation. But not to the writer of Hebrews. After giving the list about the first group He says that He is convinced of better things regarding the second group of people… yes, things that accompany salvation.

I think if we understand what faith in Jesus really is we will understand passages like this better. Some people see faith as believing that Jesus is Divine or that Jesus died for our sins or that Jesus rose again etc. Those things are all true. But here is what faith is. Faith is believing that Jesus paid for all your sins… past, present and future and therefore He saves you personally. He paid for all your sins and thus, you are automatically and permanently rescued from the wrath of God. Faith is believing that Christ saves you and that He alone does it without any help from you. That is trusting in Him for salvation.

Here are things that do not qualify as faith.
1. Believing that Jesus’ blood covers your past sins but not your future ones.

2. Believing that He gets you half way to heaven… and by your works and perseverance you make it the rest of the way.

3. Believing that He saves you but you can lose it if you don’t maintain good works. That means you are depending on yourself for salvation and it makes Christianity a works religion.

4. Believing that faith isn’t a gift. He does His part by providing salvation and you do your part by adding faith which comes from you not from God. This is actually trusting yourself for part of your salvation instead of Christ alone.

Make sure that you believe on Christ alone for salvation and do not look to yourself.

I disagree wholeheartedly! Believing in the tenets of Calvinism has not and will not save anyone. The faith that saves a man, whether he be a Calvinist or Arminian, is the faith that saves him from sin (Matt. 1:21), rescuing him from the domain of darkness, and transferring Him to the kingdom of the Father’s beloved Son (Col. 1:13). The believer dies in the domain of darkness, and is buried (Rom. 6:2-3); and he is born again (John 3:3) in the kingdom of God. Doing nothing will not and cannot get anyone into the kingdom of God. The believer MUST seek first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness (Matt. 6:33), and he MUST love God (James 2:5).

Matt. 6:33. “But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.”

Mark 1:14. Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
15. and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”

Luke 4:43. But He said to them, “I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, for I was sent for this purpose.”

Luke 8: 1. Soon afterwards, He began going around from one city and village to another, proclaiming and preaching the kingdom of God. The twelve were with Him,

Luke 9:2. And He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to perform healing.

Luke 9:60. But He said to him, “Allow the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the kingdom of God.”

Luke 10:8. “Whatever city you enter and they receive you, eat what is set before you;
9. and heal those in it who are sick, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’”

Luke 12:29. “And do not seek what you will eat and what you will drink, and do not keep worrying.
30. “For all these things the nations of the world eagerly seek; but your Father knows that you need these things.
31. “But seek His kingdom, and these things will be added to you.”

Luke 16:16. "The Law and the Prophets {were proclaimed} until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

Luke 18:29. And He said to them, “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God,
30. who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life.”

John 3:3. Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

John 3:5. Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

Acts 1:3. To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over {a period of} forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Acts 8:12. But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.

Acts 14:21. After they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch,
22. strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and {saying,} “Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.”

Acts 19:6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they {began} speaking with tongues and prophesying.
7. There were in all about twelve men.
8. And he entered the synagogue and continued speaking out boldly for three months, reasoning and persuading {them} about the kingdom of God.

Acts 20:25. “And now, behold, I know that all of you, among whom I went about preaching the kingdom, will no longer see my face.”

Acts 28:23. When they had set a day for Paul, they came to him at his lodging in large numbers; and he was explaining to them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to persuade them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from morning until evening.

Acts 28:30. And he stayed two full years in his own rented quarters and was welcoming all who came to him,
31. preaching the kingdom of God and teaching concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with all openness, unhindered.

1 Cor. 6:9. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10. nor thieves, nor {the} covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cor. 15:50. Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Gal. 5:19. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20. idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21. envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph. 5:5. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

Col. 4:10. Aristarchus, my fellow prisoner, sends you his greetings; and {also} Barnabas's cousin Mark (about whom you received instructions; if he comes to you, welcome him);
11. and {also} Jesus who is called Justus; these are the only fellow workers for the kingdom of God who are from the circumcision, and they have proved to be an encouragement to me.

1 Thes. 2:10. You are witnesses, and {so is} God, how devoutly and uprightly and blamelessly we behaved toward you believers;
11. just as you know how we {were} exhorting and encouraging and imploring each one of you as a father {would} his own children,
12. so that you would walk in a manner worthy of the God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory. 10. You are witnesses, and {so is} God, how devoutly and uprightly and blamelessly we behaved toward you believers;
11. just as you know how we {were} exhorting and encouraging and imploring each one of you as a father {would} his own children,
12. so that you would walk in a manner worthy of the God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.

2 Thes. 1:5. {This is} a plain indication of God's righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering.

James 2:5. Listen, my beloved brethren: did not God choose the poor of this world {to be} rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

Rev. 12:10. Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.”

 

[PrincetonGuy]

So is it true that these things MIGHT indicate that they were Christians? Yes. Do these things PROVE that they were Christians? No.

Up until the time of Calvin, the people spoken of in Heb. 6:4-6 were universally understood to be Christians—and we have hundreds of ancient documents that prove that to be the case. If the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews was, in reality, writing about unsaved persons in Heb. 6:4-6, he was a ridiculously incompetent writer that was severely misunderstood! What does that say about the inspiration of the Epistle to the Hebrews and its place in the New Testament Canon?

The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews used the same terminology to describe Christians that other New Testament writers used for that purpose—and NEVER to describe unsaved persons. Moreover, he used the same terminology to describe Christians that the early Ante-Nicene Fathers of the Church used for that purpose—and NEVER to describe unsaved persons. He was very careful to avoid being misunderstood—and he was not misunderstood until the time of Calvin when hundreds of biblical passages were radically reinterpreted to bring them into harmony with the teachings Calvin.

 

[P1LGR1M]

Up until the time of Calvin, the people spoken of in Heb. 6:4-6 were universally understood to be Christians—and we have hundreds of ancient documents that prove that to be the case.

Up until the time of Calvin there are numerous doctrines that were universally understood to be...Christian...but were not.

The argument that what the early Church fathers believed either supports or denies a doctrine or interpretation of a verse, passage, book, or even a Testament is not only weak it is contrary to what we are commanded to do...test them against the Word of God.

The only documents relevant to an understanding of the passages in view is in fact the passages themselves. We allow for the error of men within the framework of doctrinal positions of the early fathers, but we do not allow for error on the part of inspired Scripture, nor those used to present it to the Church.

If the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews was, in reality, writing about unsaved persons in Heb. 6:4-6, he was a ridiculously incompetent writer that was severely misunderstood!

Misunderstood, yes. That is why these passages remain among the most hotly debated passages in Scripture.

That doesn't mean that what he wrote has to be misunderstood.

It seems the focus is whether those written to in Hebrews 6:4-6 were saved or not. We know the writer addressed the Church, that is not in question, but, seeing you say you are an ordained Baptist Minister, let me ask you: did you assume that everyone in your congregation...was saved? Born again? Did you neglect to warn, exhort, rebuke, correct...because, after all, everyone was saved so you had no need to consider the possibility that someone among them was playing Church?

Let's look at it, but let's back up to find the context:


Hebrews 5:8-12

King James Version (KJV)

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.


Notice the writer begins to speak of Christ. Christ, being made perfect, became the Author of Eternal Salvation unto them that obey Him. The writer states " 'We' have many things to say (about Him), but it is difficult to do, seeing ye are...dull of hearing."

Those hearing this, who were without question assumed by the writer and his ministry team to be people who would hear this epistle, were part of the congregation/s they wrote to, so again, the question is...were they saved?

Again, when you preach/ed to an audience...did you assume they were all saved? That there was no error in their lives which needed to be addressed? That there were no visitors that were not saved?

So what does the writer say about Christ our Great High Priest?

Well, nothing...yet.

He has to stop and address an issue which he felt interfered with those he wrote to, namely...their ignorance and sloth concerning the First Principles of the Oracles (Word) of God.

First...they are dull of hearing. We can bracket this section all the way through the unfortunate chapter division (which men introduced, not the Lord) to Hebrews 6:12, where he exhorts them not to be slothful (nothros, translated "dull" in 5:11). While it is true that born again believers can be lazy and not understand either the First Principles found in the Old Testament or the more complete knowledge afforded by the writer and others used to clarify and declare Christ, it is equally true that those who are guilty of what those in this first century congregation(s) are stated of being guilty of show that their faith did not lie in Christ, because they were still practicing the (Covenant) Law.

Secondly, they need to be taught again, and take note...the First Principles of the Oracles of God. What does he mean? He may as well say "It is no wonder you cannot understand New Covenant teaching...you are confused about the teachings of Christ in the Law!" And the reason is...they were lazy.

Third, the insult here is that they had been associated long enough with Christ that they should themselves be teaching, but they are not. They need to be taught again, and as most of the New Testament writers did, they taught men by expounding Christ from the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). The writer does this often in this Epistle.

Fourth, they have become in need of milk, like babes.

The sum statement is "Because you are lazy you are not capable of teaching others, but need others to teach you the basic principles. You cannot ingest strong meat, but need milk."

Now who is it that needs milk? Those that are limited in their understanding, which would include new believers, but does not in any way exclude those who have not been saved.

All of this is a result of the actions and conduct of those he writes to, thus his teaching concerning Christ's Priesthood is interrupted to address serious error found among those he writes to.

Next he states...


Hebrews 5:13-14

King James Version (KJV)

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


He separates those that partake of strong meat from those are in need of milk, or in other words, those who would understand what he wants to teach concerning our Great High Priest from those that are as he described in the previous verses.

Those using milk are "without experience" which, seeing it is the Word of God in view (and particularly knowledge of Christ), the primary lack in their lives is understanding of Christ Himself.

Now note that strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age. Many will view this as saying "Strong meat belongs to them that are mature," but I would suggest to you, based on the contrast between those that are in need of learning First, or Basic Principles of Christ, and those who are not slothful and are able to ingest deeper knowledge, that, while we can see an application of maturity here, what is actually in view is salvation itself. "Full Age" speaks about something that is brought to an end, or, made complete. It is used in Hebrews 9:11 to contrast the earthly tabernacle with the Heavenly.

Again, we see a contrast drawn between two different things. Here, the contrast is between those made perfect and those in need of the First Principles.

To find out what the writer means, we simply step into the next chapter, and the first verse expands the teaching of the perfection that is in view:


Hebrews 6

King James Version (KJV)

1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,


Again, strong meat belongs to those contrasted with those that are rebuked, those of full age (perfect, made perfect) with those lazy to hear and in need of milk.

Here, the writer states "Therefore, leaving the First (principles) of the Doctrine of Christ..."

...stop.

Take careful note that this is speaking about what is written of Christ in the Hebrew Scriptures. That is what is in view.

Now to whom would we tell they have need to leave (and this does not mean abandon) what is written about Christ in the Old Testament?

Those who had not fully accepted that the Christ had come and that what was now being taught was to be embraced.

Note he states..."let us go on unto perfection." Does he mean "Let us mature and stop being babies in understanding"? Yes. But...the maturity in view is not that of an older, wiser believer, but the contrast is between believers in Christ from an Old Testament understanding and believers in Christ with a New Testament understanding.

We can see the difference between the understanding of Peter, for example, in regards to his understanding of Christ...in two primary positions. Before the Cross and Pentecost, something many do not recognize in Peter, is that he was in opposition to the Gospel of Christ. Sound like an outrageous statement? Go back to the Gospels and see Peter's rebuke of Christ for stating He was going to Jerusalem to die. See Peter's desperate attempt to fulfill Old Testament prophecy concerning Christ, which was a temporal Kingdom ruled by Christ...when he takes up the sword to defend Christ, that He might not be taken and thus die. Then contrast that with Peter's understanding and conduct after Pentecost, after He was Baptized with the Holy Ghost. And if you are not sure whether Peter was, or was not Baptized with the Holy Ghost prior to Pentecost, simply consult Acts 1:4-8.

In view in Hebrews is not a modern understanding impacted by understanding of the New Testament, but Jews who truly believed Christ was coming, and could accept that Christ...might be the Messiah. But many Jews still had that temporal understanding of Christ, and had not gone on unto perfection, or, true faith in Christ.

In v.1 the writer forbids laying again the foundational principles, which would be found in the Old Testament.


Hebrews 6

King James Version (KJV)

1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.


We can contrast each of these basic principles with New Testament principles, but the writer will sum all of them up:


4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Verse 4 makes some believe this proves that those being rebuked here were born again believers, but, what is forgotten is that it is the Holy Spirit, in the ministry of Comforter, that enlightens all men...that they might be saved. Did not Christ teach that when He was come, He would convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment? "Of sin," said He, "...because they believe not on Me."

Some of the divisive issues in the Body of Christ can be easily resolved if we forego what men have taught and focus on what the Word of God teaches. Calvinists and Arminians could heal their great breach simply by acknowledging that unbelievers are ministered to by the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, Who began His Ministry on the Day of Pentecost. This particular passage loses it's power as a loss of salvation teaching when a very simple principle is maintained: the Comforter convicts of sin, and He uses the very Word of God to do so. The response of those ministered to varies, some will yield, some will reject.

But no-one comes to repentance apart from the Ministry of the Comforter. And not all those enlightened will yield to God and be saved. Peter writes "...it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them (2 Peter 2:21)." We see in this single verse that men can be enlightened, understand...turn from it. In John 6, which I view as the greatest passage dealing with how we are saved, where Christ states specifically that men must believe He died for them, we see disciples who were willing to follow Christ for gain (being fed), but when the specifics arise, they walk away.


Continued...

 

[P1LGR1M]

One more point from this passage:


4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


The foundational principles being laid again result in a rejection of Christ the ministry of the Comforter.

Note here that those who fall away "crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh." What does he mean?

Simply put, to offer up again the sacrifices of the Law...was to do again that which those sacrifices did in the first place: picture Christ.

Those guilty of this crucified Christ again, in figure, and this...to themselves.

In Hebrews 10:29 it is written...


Hebrews 10:29

King James Version (KJV)

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


...and again we see a contrast between the First Covenant (The Covenant of Law) and the New Covenant (see vv.26-29 in context). We see that in view is not the sins that every believer will commit as he is growing and being conformed to the image of Christ, but the specific sin of rejection of Christ Himself, as well as the means of enlightenment, the Ministry of the Comforter.

Again, in view is the understanding of those he writes to of the Word of God, and he goes on to say...


7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.


The Word of God goes out to all men. While there are those who may never hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Paul assures us that all men will have the revelation of God, whether it be through Creation, the internal witness of God, or specific revelation such as the Word of God, no man or woman will stand before God and say, "But...you never told me!"

Again we see a contrast, not between good or mature believers and those not so mature, but between believers and unbelievers. We will know them by their fruit, and by their words, and by their deeds. For those in view here, the writer has already spent much time warning against unbelief. Anyone reading chs. 3-4 and stating that unbelievers are never in view...need to read it again.

What does that say about the inspiration of the Epistle to the Hebrews and its place in the New Testament Canon?

The interpretations of men do not impact, and are not relevant to the Inspiration of Scripture. That men can misinterpret, and still be genuine in their faith in Christ is a possibility. If what we have concluded is in conflict with what is taught elsewhere in Scripture, then it is we that must go back and find out where our error lies.

And we can say with confidence that an interpretation of this passage as teaching loss of salvation is in error. We need not go out of Hebrews to show this:


Hebrews 10:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


Again, the writer exhorts his Hebrew brethren..."Therefore, let us go on unto perfection."

And those that have been made perfect in regards to remission of sin have been, according to New Covenant promise, forgiven their sins, and that sin will no more be remembered by the Lord.

And if one tries to establish a "Clean Slate" soteriology, keep in mind that in doing so the Word of God is nullified in preference for a theological view that conflicts with Eternal Redemption itself. If sins were remembered, then it could not be said that those sanctified by the Blood of Christ have been made perfect forever.

The author of the Epistle to the Hebrews used the same terminology to describe Christians that other New Testament writers used for that purpose—and NEVER to describe unsaved persons.

Actually, he spends quite a bit of time speaking about unsaved people. Here are a few examples:


Hebrews 3:12

King James Version (KJV)

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.


Hebrews 3:17-19

King James Version (KJV)

17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.



Hebrews 4

King James Version (KJV)

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.


6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:


11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.



It is difficult stating those that were unbelievers were saved. The contrast drawn here is between those with an evil heart of unbelief in the Wilderness, and those, in the New Testament Economy who have entered into Rest through faith and belief. We do not divorce obedience in this comparison, but we do note that unbelievers, who cannot be said to be saved (because the Word they heard was not mixed with faith), are definitely spoken of by the writer, and this is a constant theme.

The warning here is to those who might replicate the unbelief of those who did not enter into the temporal rest of God, and in so doing not enter into Rest in Christ.

Moreover, he used the same terminology to describe Christians that the early Ante-Nicene Fathers of the Church used for that purpose—and NEVER to describe unsaved persons.

Just not an accurate statement, as seen in passage above.

When we approach Hebrews 6:4-6. let us not overlook the foundation the writer lays going into his rebuke of those who are simply negligent to place priority on the Word of God, and thus come to an understanding of Christ.

Hebrews 10:26 is no different, because if we look at the groundwork laid in chs.8-9, not to mention his specific address of sacrifice for sin which contrasts Christ's sacrifice with the sacrifices of the Levitical Economy, we would not erroneously conclude that born again believers are in view in 10:26.

They are contrasted with the unsaved under the Law, who rejected...not embraced...the Covenant in view:


Hebrews 10:26-29

King James Version (KJV)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Those that despise Christ and the New Covenant are contrasted and compared with those that despised Moses' Law (the First Covenant, Covenant of Law). Rejection of Christ is why certain judgment will come, and the writer asks..."How much sorer will it be?"

It is a question that demands an answer, and the answer is it will be much more severe than those that despised Moses' Law.

In view is rejection of the New Covenant, which the writer speaks about in great detail before making this declaration of warning.

And we see the same statement here...


Hebrews 10:16-18

King James Version (KJV)

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


...that he makes here...


Hebrews 10:26

King James Version (KJV)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,


...which is the consistent teaching of the New Testament...only the sacrifice of Christ can save. Only through His death can we receive remission of sins.

Yet no-one mistakes the intent of the writer in the former passage, so we ask...how can they misinterpret the latter?

It is because of faith and loyalty to a Theology System, which I would suggest is unnecessary in the Body of Christ to begin with, and based on error itself.

We need to be in the Books of the Bible, not in books about the Bible.

He was very careful to avoid being misunderstood—and he was not misunderstood until the time of Calvin when hundreds of biblical passages were radically reinterpreted to bring them into harmony with the teachings Calvin.

I have to disagree, because error in regards to Christ, Christian conduct, and Christian Doctrine...does not even wait until the entirety of the New Testament is given us by God.

Much of the New Testament Epistles address...error. Even with living, breathing Apostles ministering to the Church, error was present and had to be dealt with.

To imply that until Calvin the Church was doing just fine, lol, cannot be concluded from the Books of the New Testament. To imply that the doctrinal positions of the Church were in good order before Calvin is also something that few would try to actually support.

Only Scripture can be consulted if we want flawless doctrine. The doctrines of men will always have one problem...men are involved.

As to whether those doctrines "reinterpret" or not, that should be easily enough settled...in the Word.

One error Paul addressed in 1 Corinthians, and addressed it before anything else...was sectarian division and exalting men, who did not die for us.

Paul did not die for us. Apollos did not die for us. We can place any name, except for the Name of Christ, in that statement, and it will always be true. Only Christ could and did die for us, to take upon Himself the penalty for our sins, and as God promised and then fulfilled in Christ, when we are sanctified by the blood of Christ, we are made perfect, complete...forever.

God will not renege on His promise to no more remember our sins. Faith in Christ, and specifically, that He died for our sins, is our entrance into New Covenant relationship with God. For the first century Jew, prior to the destruction of the Temple, there was a very difficult situation presented. Those who were born and bred into one of the most religious cultures the world has ever seen were faced with great loss by turning away from the Law and it's sacrifices. But that was the choice they had. For them to associate with Christ and still offer up sacrifice for remission of sins was a clear statement that they were not trusting in Christ for remission of sins, but that they were still under obligation to offer up according to the Law. Those who did so "crucified to themselves Christ again."

And that is why the writer makes it clear "There is no more sacrifice for sins."

If one despises Christ, there is no other sacrifice for sins which they can turn to.


God bless.

 

[corinth77777]

As I went back ad read Hebrews..when the
Author speaks I believe he is at times speaking
Corporately..as a whole I dont believe they all
Were saved by faith but at some point saved
Under the law.....because they were covered by sacrafices
He goes back to we who believed have entered that rest.
If u truly entered that rest you would not be trying to keep the law for salvation
Because Jesus is the end of the law for those who believe. SOUNDS LIKE THEY
HEARD BUT NOT ALL ENTERED..AS A UNITY OF JEWS

 

[P1LGR1M]

As I went back ad read Hebrews..when the
Author speaks I believe he is at times speaking
Corporately..as a whole I dont believe they all
Were saved by faith but at some point saved
Under the law.....because they were covered by sacrafices
He goes back to we who believed have entered that rest.
If u truly entered that rest you would not be trying to keep the law for salvation
Because Jesus is the end of the law for those who believe. SOUNDS LIKE THEY
HEARD BUT NOT ALL ENTERED..AS A UNITY OF JEWS

You are correct: in view is the Hebrew people specifically, just as the example given in ch.3 also speaks of the Hebrew people (and of course we do not discount the mixed multitude, even as we would not preclude application to Gentile believers among the Hebrew Christians who would hear this epistle read).

No-one was "saved" under the Law, and that is the distinction that has to be made between the two Covenants, which the writer does numerous times throughout the epistle. Read chs.7-10 to see how the two covenants are distinguished. In chapter 9-10 this is particularly a specific intention, and we see that the Law afforded only a shadow, a figure (same word translated "parable") of the good things to come, which the writer impresses upon his people...those things have come.

Now what would we say that "the end of the Law" means in the context of the Book of Hebrews?


God bless.

 

[corinth77777]

I believe we see falling away....anytime
There is abscents of faith, or teaching that
Mix faith in Christ for salvation and works for salvation.
We should rather have a working faith. A faith that works
Through love. As fire gives off heat...our works should reflect
What we believe....if both works and faith enter us in...it will cause us
To waver not only in understanding but in works...For the works cant come from the motivation of both love and fear when you are in christ....because..our works have to
Stand the test of fire. They only last if the motive comes from eternal love. Remeber our works
Were prepared in Christ before hand.Everything that last will come from him...if
Works of the flesh are still involved..because u believe u entered in his rest...then why are you working for salvation...this is the wavering..because one has not understood or accepted Christ's finished works......so how do you believe you entered into Christ? Will determine if u really entered in at all.