Heaven

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I feel rather chagrined about making a thread speculating about Hell, especially since it is not our final destination. It's a bit like wondering about a country you don't intend to visit. I'd rather talk about Heaven and some of the things we hope we'll get to do or see.
 
Last edited:

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
We all sin, again and again. There is no such thing as sinless perfection on this side of eternity. One of the things I look forward to is being my whole self, without sin and knowing my loved ones as their whole selves, without sin. Having perfect communion with them, and everyone.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: BeStill&Know
Upvote 0

John Hyperspace

UnKnown ReMember
Oct 3, 2016
2,385
1,272
53
Hyperspace
✟35,143.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
As I'm lead to understand, heaven is a word that, naturally, means the sky. But what God does with the "land and sky/earth and heaven" is create a physical analogue of empirical reality and abstract reality. Empirical means, the reality perceived through the senses. The Bible uses words like earthly, carnal, worldly, fleshly, sensual, of men. Abstract means reality perceived through the mind. The Bible used words like heavenly, spiritually, of God. The realm of thought, and idea. Heaven and earth; immaterial and material.

So when we look at the earth, we see it as very solidly made, with angles and forms, very defined, very sensual, to be felt. This being the analogue for empirical. Then when we look at the sky, it's not well defined. It's wisps of nebulous vapors drifting along a canvas of blue. Very unearthly, and this is the analogue of abstract; the realm of thought and idea.

And so the kingdom of heaven is not a worldly or empirical kingdom, it is an abstract kingdom of the mind: a kingdom of understanding. This is why Jesus would say, the kingdom doesn't come with observation. You can't see it, or touch it; it's an abstract kingdom.

Likewise, heaven isn't something we literally go to, it is a state of mind, a state of understanding; a state of heart and mind which through proper understanding of the Word brings us into a close communion with the Spirit of God within us, and causes peace with that personal idea of God that exists in our mind. A person who is not correctly understanding the Word can have a very corrupt image of God in their mind that causes them torment and fear, as they await wrath to come, or, make themselves to feel worthless and no good. But with proper understanding of the Word, the mind can be cleansed from all impurity of thought toward the relation and communion with God.

So heaven is a destination for our mind and understanding. Coming out of the darkness of fear, and enmity with God, caused by a conscience convicted of sin through ignorance, and gradually gaining clearer understanding, and coming into a better relationship with God through the lamp of understanding, the light of the Word. Once we come to this place of soundness of understanding, we have entered the kingdom of heaven, and increase in understanding from there.

So I don't believe heaven is a place we go that is like, a secondary earth hidden away in some other carnal location; but heaven is in the mind, and is readily available to us right now. We can "go to heaven" without ever having left "the earth"

BUT, I'd be remiss in not saying that, I do believe there will be a time coming in which the minds of men will have sufficiently come far enough out of the darkness of ignorance and, being lead by those in the kingdom of heaven, the earth will become "heaven on earth", entailing all that comes with that (a resurrection of the dead, a removal of disease and poverty, creation of an Edenic environment). This to me is because, the earth reflects the heaven. The earth that we currently live in is reflecting the mind of man, but when the mind of material man begins to wax toward immaterial godly mentality, then the earth will reflect the mind of God.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
I feel rather chagrined about making a thread speculating about Hell, especially since it is not our final destination. It's a bit like wondering about a country you don't intend to visit. I'd rather talk about Heaven and some of the things we hope we'll get to do or see.
Well,
both are important, and hell is the final destination of most people.
Y'SHUA MESSIAH talked more of hell than of heaven you know?
(people needed to be warned,
and need to be warned today; even if they never listen).
 
  • Agree
Reactions: BeStill&Know
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
We all sin, again and again.
This is not quite what YHWH'S WORD says, even in the TORAH / OLD TESTAMENT / PROPHETS ! (Before Y'SHUA SAVIOR MESSIAH CAME).

In fact, it is directly contrary to how YHWH says to think, in the OT and in the NT.

But that is when HE is talking to / instructing/ HIS PEOPLE , not the world.
The world sins endlessly, non-stop.

NOT SO YHWH'S PEOPLE, OT and NT.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: BeStill&Know
Upvote 0

BeStill&Know

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 13, 2015
1,078
553
✟68,040.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I feel rather chagrined about making a thread speculating about Hell, especially since it is not our final destination. It's a bit like wondering about a country you don't intend to visit. I'd rather talk about Heaven and some of the things we hope we'll get to do or see.
I hope first to see Jesus,:idea: well actually my dream is to be welcomed into Heaven by all my multitude of loyal furry friends I've had since I was a child. My trip to Heaven will be accompanied by my Guardian Angel who many times protected me from an early death and has warned me of danger many, many times. I hope after Jesus, I will see Abraham. Then my dead brother and sister, mom and I hope my father.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I am weak
If you are weak, then you are in good company. I Corinthians 26-31
"For see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the WEAK things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in His presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."

His grace is made perfect through our weakness.
 
Upvote 0

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
As I'm lead to understand, heaven is a word that, naturally, means the sky. But what God does with the "land and sky/earth and heaven" is create a physical analogue of empirical reality and abstract reality. Empirical means, the reality perceived through the senses. The Bible uses words like earthly, carnal, worldly, fleshly, sensual, of men. Abstract means reality perceived through the mind. The Bible used words like heavenly, spiritually, of God. The realm of thought, and idea. Heaven and earth; immaterial and material.

So when we look at the earth, we see it as very solidly made, with angles and forms, very defined, very sensual, to be felt. This being the analogue for empirical. Then when we look at the sky, it's not well defined. It's wisps of nebulous vapors drifting along a canvas of blue. Very unearthly, and this is the analogue of abstract; the realm of thought and idea.

And so the kingdom of heaven is not a worldly or empirical kingdom, it is an abstract kingdom of the mind: a kingdom of understanding. This is why Jesus would say, the kingdom doesn't come with observation. You can't see it, or touch it; it's an abstract kingdom.

Likewise, heaven isn't something we literally go to, it is a state of mind, a state of understanding; a state of heart and mind which through proper understanding of the Word brings us into a close communion with the Spirit of God within us, and causes peace with that personal idea of God that exists in our mind. A person who is not correctly understanding the Word can have a very corrupt image of God in their mind that causes them torment and fear, as they await wrath to come, or, make themselves to feel worthless and no good. But with proper understanding of the Word, the mind can be cleansed from all impurity of thought toward the relation and communion with God.

So heaven is a destination for our mind and understanding. Coming out of the darkness of fear, and enmity with God, caused by a conscience convicted of sin through ignorance, and gradually gaining clearer understanding, and coming into a better relationship with God through the lamp of understanding, the light of the Word. Once we come to this place of soundness of understanding, we have entered the kingdom of heaven, and increase in understanding from there.

So I don't believe heaven is a place we go that is like, a secondary earth hidden away in some other carnal location; but heaven is in the mind, and is readily available to us right now. We can "go to heaven" without ever having left "the earth"

BUT, I'd be remiss in not saying that, I do believe there will be a time coming in which the minds of men will have sufficiently come far enough out of the darkness of ignorance and, being lead by those in the kingdom of heaven, the earth will become "heaven on earth", entailing all that comes with that (a resurrection of the dead, a removal of disease and poverty, creation of an Edenic environment). This to me is because, the earth reflects the heaven. The earth that we currently live in is reflecting the mind of man, but when the mind of material man begins to wax toward immaterial godly mentality, then the earth will reflect the mind of God.

Where do you think the soul goes after physical death?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: BeStill&Know
Upvote 0

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Well,
both are important, and hell is the final destination of most people.
Y'SHUA MESSIAH talked more of hell than of heaven you know?
(people needed to be warned,
and need to be warned today; even if they never listen).
I assume most people on the forum is Christian, so I thought it might be more edifying to think about our ultimate destination rather than the opposite. When I am around Christians in real life, we don't talk about Hell very much, but we DO talk about Heaven.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BeStill&Know
Upvote 0

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I hope first to see Jesus,:idea: well actually my dream is to be welcomed into Heaven by all my multitude of loyal furry friends I've had since I was a child. My trip to Heaven will be accompanied by my Guardian Angel who many times protected me from an early death and has warned me of danger many, many times. I hope after Jesus, I will see Abraham. Then my dead brother and sister, mom and I hope my father.
I think our pets will be in Heaven, too. I've sent some Home and I know my sister is taking care of them. Yes, I want to see Jesus. I think the verse in the Bible about how He will wipe all tears from our eyes is because when we see Him and the scars, we'll cry thinking about what He did for us, and then He will wipe our tears and smile at us and say 'No more sadness, welcome Home."

Abraham is a good choice, my favorite is Paul. I want to hear him preach. I want to talk to my loved ones- and I want to meet my great uncle I never knew.

I hope you will get to see your father, too. There are some of mine I don't know are there or not. I hope they are.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
When I am around Christians in real life, we don't talk about Hell very much, but we DO talk about Heaven.
Y'SHUA with HIS disciples most often talked about hell and judgment, much more than about heaven.
There is a very good reason for this.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: BeStill&Know
Upvote 0

John Hyperspace

UnKnown ReMember
Oct 3, 2016
2,385
1,272
53
Hyperspace
✟35,143.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Where do you think the soul goes after physical death?

Right now we've got a sensual body, and an spiritual body. In modern vernacular, an empirical body and an abstract body. The empirical/sensual body is the object that "represents" you in the sensual world, but it's not the "real" you. The real you is the abstract body, your consciousness; that which makes you who you are. Right now, we're two abstract beings communicating with one another. You don't see my sensual form, all you know is my, spirit. My mind.

When we lose the sensual body, the mind is still there. Consciousness is the thing that is eternal; it's not actually a part of the sensual world. You can't touch it or see it; just like any abstract thing. So all that really would happen is that, the sensual form is lost. Obviously I can't know what it's like to exist purely in abstraction, but that's what would happen. At the loss of the sensual form, you would begin existence as purely an abstract consciousness.

Perhaps in some kind of, dream world? In an imaginary environment? I don't mean, imaginary, as, not real (because abstraction are quite as real as sensual things; one may argue that abstractions are even more real than sensual things), but as, the same "substance" of which imaginings are made. But who knows.

But, after physical death the consciousness must continue to be the same, just, experiencing in a more, unlimited, way.

Also, don't forget that the soul remains in the ones you've touched in your walk with others. Those moved on are still, really, very much with us in our our consciousness, and they still live here, through us; if you know what I mean.
 
Upvote 0

John Hyperspace

UnKnown ReMember
Oct 3, 2016
2,385
1,272
53
Hyperspace
✟35,143.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
This is not quite what YHWH'S WORD says, even in the TORAH / OLD TESTAMENT / PROPHETS ! (Before Y'SHUA SAVIOR MESSIAH CAME).

In fact, it is directly contrary to how YHWH says to think, in the OT and in the NT.

But that is when HE is talking to / instructing/ HIS PEOPLE , not the world.
The world sins endlessly, non-stop.

NOT SO YHWH'S PEOPLE, OT and NT.

You stopped sinning?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Galatea

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2016
2,257
1,891
44
Alabama
✟70,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Right now we've got a sensual body, and an spiritual body. In modern vernacular, an empirical body and an abstract body. The empirical/sensual body is the object that "represents" you in the sensual world, but it's not the "real" you. The real you is the abstract body, your consciousness; that which makes you who you are. Right now, we're two abstract beings communicating with one another. You don't see my sensual form, all you know is my, spirit. My mind.

When we lose the sensual body, the mind is still there. Consciousness is the thing that is eternal; it's not actually a part of the sensual world. You can't touch it or see it; just like any abstract thing. So all that really would happen is that, the sensual form is lost. Obviously I can't know what it's like to exist purely in abstraction, but that's what would happen. At the loss of the sensual form, you would begin existence as purely an abstract consciousness.

Perhaps in some kind of, dream world? In an imaginary environment? I don't mean, imaginary, as, not real (because abstraction are quite as real as sensual things; one may argue that abstractions are even more real than sensual things), but as, the same "substance" of which imaginings are made. But who knows.

But, after physical death the consciousness must continue to be the same, just, experiencing in a more, unlimited, way.

Also, don't forget that the soul remains in the ones you've touched in your walk with others. Those moved on are still, really, very much with us in our our consciousness, and they still live here, through us; if you know what I mean.
I agree with you that the abstract is actually more real than the concrete. The soul, or essence is the real you- not your body. But I believe that the soul, or consciousness or essence goes on to live in Heaven or Hell, I don't know where they are- but I believe that they are real places.
 
Upvote 0