Healthcare overhaul won't stop premium increases

GodbetheGlory

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Why would it insurance companies helped to write the bill. It's going to make them a ton of $$$.

They can take up to 8% of you're income. So a single person making $50,000 a year could pay upwards of $4,000 a year for health care.

And the 16,500 more IRS agents they're hiring are going to help inforce it. Better be extra careful when you do you taxes, expect a lot more audits.
 
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rambot

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Why would it insurance companies helped to write the bill. It's going to make them a ton of $$$.

They can take up to 8% of you're income. So a single person making $50,000 a year could pay upwards of $4,000 a year for health care.

And the 16,500 more IRS agents they're hiring are going to help inforce it. Better be extra careful when you do you taxes, expect a lot more audits.
A single person paying 4000 a year of health insurance? Wow. Up in "Commie healthcare land" nobody pays anywhere near that much. That's too bad.
 
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Schneiderman

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A single person paying 4000 a year of health insurance? Wow. Up in "Commie healthcare land" nobody pays anywhere near that much. That's too bad.

I don't know about the tax structures of commieworld countries but I imagine that since it does come out of taxes, there are indeed a lot of people paying $4000 and over per year for their health coverage.

be aware that I said 'commieworld' in jest

What the health care bill did was give insurance companies a free pass to raise insurance rates as much as they want, because people have to either buy insurance from them or pay a "fine". When people decide that paying the fine is cheaper they'll not buy insurance then the fine will go up then insurance rates will go up even more.
 
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Billnew

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I don't know about the tax structures of commieworld countries but I imagine that since it does come out of taxes, there are indeed a lot of people paying $4000 and over per year for their health coverage.

be aware that I said 'commieworld' in jest

What the health care bill did was give insurance companies a free pass to raise insurance rates as much as they want, because people have to either buy insurance from them or pay a "fine". When people decide that paying the fine is cheaper they'll not buy insurance then the fine will go up then insurance rates will go up even more.
#1: but its the rich people, so who cares.

#2: Insurance is short sighted. I do believe you are right, I believe the insurance companies embraced this bill, not seeing that in the long term,
it will put them out of business.
This bill never considered premiums, oh it was a selling point for passing HCR, but it was never considered this time.

To the insurance companies defense:
You can not increase coverage to every person and offer improved benefits without the company having to increase income. They pay out more in claims, so they have to take in more. (there is a reason they didn't insure these people. (Big bills, more payouts then money brought in)
This bill just makes it manditory to have minimum coverage, it does little to help people pay the manditory premiums.

So to quote a phrase from a double talking politician:
"They have to pay a fine and still don't have insurance." B.H.Obama in debate with Clinton during the election. Obama opposed this type of reform during the election.

Remember this bill when November comes around. It can be repealed, or at least defunded.
Congress controls the budget.
 
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ACougar

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The Healthcare bill isn't stoping Earthquakes from taking place either... and there are still lot's of people in prison. Now I find out it won't stop premium increased either.... holy cow. Premiums have like doubled in the last 7-8 years while wages have only gone up like 30%. The bill hardly fixes anything! So what if premiums don't go up as fast, or if people can't be droped from coverage because thier sick, or pre-existing conditions are now covered, yada yada yada... what good is making the world a better place if you can't make it perfect?

 
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Corey

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jayem

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The provision that may have kept premiums down was jettisoned. That of course being the public option to compete with private insurors. As the law currently provides, by 2014, individuals and small employers will purchase coverage through exchanges, run by states (or consortia of states.) Carriers will have to compete with each other in these exchanges, which could keep premiums down somewhat. The law also appropriated funds to allow consumer groups to form non-profit co-ops which can sell qualified plans through the exchanges. IIRC, by 2017, all employers will obtain coverage through the exchanges, which in theory can use the buying power of big companies to keep prices down. The law gives the exchanges oversight of health plans in areas like consumer protection and rate reviews, but I'm not sure exactly how much teeth they have.

The law is a compromise. The public option was a no-go. But it attempts a free market/competition approach to keeping premiums down. But this doesn't kick in fully for 3 1/2 more years, so it's business as usual for a while. As I've posted before, my preference is for a single-payer, non-profit catastrophic plan whose rates are regulated like a public utility.
 
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wpiman2

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The provision that may have kept premiums down was jettisoned. That of course being the public option to compete with private insurors. As the law currently provides, by 2014, individuals and small employers will purchase coverage through exchanges, run by states (or consortia of states.) Carriers will have to compete with each other in these exchanges, which could keep premiums down somewhat. The law also appropriated funds to allow consumer groups to form non-profit co-ops which can sell qualified plans through the exchanges. IIRC, by 2017, all employers will obtain coverage through the exchanges, which in theory can use the buying power of big companies to keep prices down. The law gives the exchanges oversight of health plans in areas like consumer protection and rate reviews, but I'm not sure exactly how much teeth they have.

The law is a compromise. The public option was a no-go. But it attempts a free market/competition approach to keeping premiums down. But this doesn't kick in fully for 3 1/2 more years, so it's business as usual for a while. As I've posted before, my preference is for a single-payer, non-profit catastrophic plan whose rates are regulated like a public utility.

I like the compromise; but a public option would never have to compete with the insurance companies as it would be backed by the government. When it went bankrupt, it would reach into your wallet and get more cash. Look at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as an example of GSEs.
 
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Maynard Keenan

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I'd like to point out a bit of conservative schizophrenia on the issue of rising health care costs. On the one hand, conservatives say that any kind of price controls, or any lowering of medicare payments for example, will just out doctors out of business. But at the same time, they say if we had more competition in healthcare as a result of people paying their own bills or through using high deductible plans, it would force prices down. What I don't get is how these aren't mutually incompatible beliefs? If lowering prices will necessarily put doctors out of business, then competition can't lower prices because there is no room to lower them.
 
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Maynard Keenan

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Sounds like he just "had a hunch" and followed it, and due to the confirmation bias fallacy, decided it had to be divine. He won't recount the times he had a hunch that turned out wrong. That something unusual happened isn't miraculous. Unusual things happen all the time. Given billions of "things" happening every day, some of them are going to be even one-in-a-billion shots. Might feel miraculous to the person it happens to, but its just the law of statistics.
 
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Autumnleaf

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I'd like to point out a bit of conservative schizophrenia on the issue of rising health care costs. On the one hand, conservatives say that any kind of price controls, or any lowering of medicare payments for example, will just out doctors out of business. But at the same time, they say if we had more competition in healthcare as a result of people paying their own bills or through using high deductible plans, it would force prices down. What I don't get is how these aren't mutually incompatible beliefs? If lowering prices will necessarily put doctors out of business, then competition can't lower prices because there is no room to lower them.

What I don't understand is how plumbers manage to make a living without having to deal with insurance. The free market seems to work just fine there.
 
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GodbetheGlory

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I'd like to point out a bit of conservative schizophrenia on the issue of rising health care costs. On the one hand, conservatives say that any kind of price controls, or any lowering of medicare payments for example, will just out doctors out of business. But at the same time, they say if we had more competition in healthcare as a result of people paying their own bills or through using high deductible plans, it would force prices down. What I don't get is how these aren't mutually incompatible beliefs? If lowering prices will necessarily put doctors out of business, then competition can't lower prices because there is no room to lower them.

The whole Doctors going out of business is nonsense. Even if prices came down (which they won’t under this bill) doctors would still be making a very nice living. It’s not like there’s a ton of $150k-$200k+ jobs available.
And if any doctors did go out of business it would be the primary care physicians who are way over paid and the many of what they do is useless. If you go them with a sickness all they do is look in a book and prescribe you the latest drug, after spending a whole 2 minutes with you. A nurse could do that. And if you have an injury, lets see a knee that needs surgery, and you have an HMO all these doctors do is waste you’re time before you can see the orthopedic doctor who can actually do something.
I say this based on all my experiences and experiences of people I know.
 
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GodbetheGlory

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Because most serious health care procedures cost a good deal more than most people have the capacity to pay, so they pool risk.


The reason things in the medicial world cost so much is largely because health insurance and companies taking advantage of it.
When I use to work as a Fitness trainer for a health club we’d normally charge $40-50 a session. When someone would come in on a doctors notice and the insurance was paying we’d charge 2-3x that.
So if us fitness trainers were doing that imagine who else is. Everyone is. Especially the drug companies who charge $60 or more for a drug that cost them $2. This brings costs way up.
There was a time when health insurance like we know it today didn’t exist and things were fine. Way less people were hooked on drugs and doctors even came to you.
 
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Autumnleaf

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The whole Doctors going out of business is nonsense. Even if prices came down (which they won’t under this bill) doctors would still be making a very nice living. It’s not like there’s a ton of $150k-$200k+ jobs available.
And if any doctors did go out of business it would be the primary care physicians who are way over paid and the many of what they do is useless. If you go them with a sickness all they do is look in a book and prescribe you the latest drug, after spending a whole 2 minutes with you. A nurse could do that. And if you have an injury, lets see a knee that needs surgery, and you have an HMO all these doctors do is waste you’re time before you can see the orthopedic doctor who can actually do something.
I say this based on all my experiences and experiences of people I know.

Lol. Primary care doctors do the most work and are the least paid. They tend to work crummy hours compared to specialists too. Would you trust a nurse to decide if you need some Motrin or an orthopedic consult as much as you do a Primary care doc? Face it, primary care physicians do a lot of grunt work in healthcare.
 
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GodbetheGlory

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Lol. Primary care doctors do the most work and are the least paid. They tend to work crummy hours compared to specialists too. Would you trust a nurse to decide if you need some Motrin or an orthopedic consult as much as you do a Primary care doc? Face it, primary care physicians do a lot of grunt work in healthcare.

Least paid because they're the less specialized and I don’t know any who are working crummy hours. Unless you mean PCP's that may work in the ER. That’s the exception.
I talking more about regular 9-5 PCP who you have to make an appointment with.
I don’t trust PCP’s at all. They make mistakes all the time and prescribe people wrong drugs that injury and kill them. People put these individuals on a pedestal. They see so many people a day that they get rushed and make mistakes. Plus they get the majority on what drugs to prescribe from Pharmaceutical Sales reps.
I rarely see a doctor. If I do I do my own research before seeing them.
The last time I did was because of an injury. All the PCP did was waste my time and tell me I need to see a specialist, which I already knew.
 
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