Have You Made An Informed Choice?

[Electric Skeptic]

There are no hidden messages and Science is the one that uses the Alphabet not me. In case you have not noticed "DNA" are letters from our alphabet. The only question here is what came first, the chemicals or the letters that we assign to the chemicals. I say the letters came first.

That's insane. The letters, invented by humans, came before the chemicals that were needed to produce humans?

 

[JohnR7]

The letters, invented by humans, came before the chemicals that were needed to produce humans?

The words or the letters that express those words came first. The DNA did NOT come first. We see this when we study Hebrew. They have changed the alphabet over the years for man's convience and that makes it harder to see how what God said became expressed in the DNA and how life came from that.

Of course if you want to tell me where you think those chemicals come from I would be glad to hear your explaination. Because the only "primitive soup" they could have come from was alphabet soup. It all happened when "God said". Then God saw it was good.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

The words or the letters that express those words came first. The DNA did NOT come first. We see this when we study Hebrew. They have changed the alphabet over the years for man's convience and that makes it harder to see how what God said became expressed in the DNA and how life came from that.

Of course if you want to tell me where you think those chemicals come from I would be glad to hear your explaination. Because the only "primitive soup" they could have come from was alphabet soup. It all happened when "God said". Then God saw it was good.

Do you ever look at your posts after you write them to verify that they actually make sense? Because this one doesn't. Not even close.

It's obvious to anyone sane that DNA, and the chemicals that make it up, came before the letters that we (or anyone else) use to describe it and them.

 

[TheBear]

Yes.

 

[tocis]

Why is this so strange to you Odwin, Odin (may be Zeus) has been sending me messages in my Alphabet soup and cereal for years now.

Can't have been Odin, he'd have used Futhark runes

 

[RealityCheck]

There are no hidden messages and Science is the one that uses the Alphabet not me. In case you have not noticed "DNA" are letters from our alphabet. The only question here is what came first, the chemicals or the letters that we assign to the chemicals. I say the letters came first.

Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass

Through the letters we assign to DNA we can see how what God said, became DNA to bring forth the grass.

John, I'd like a sample of whatever it is you're on. I don't think it's in any standard formulary, but I'd like to check all the same.



Seriously. Either you truly have rejected reality and substituted your own, or you are just an off-the-deep-end troll and poser looking to make fundamentalism look absolutely inane and insane.

(Or you're channelling Bucky the Cat, that's also a strong possibility here.)

 

[RealityCheck]

Can't have been Odin, he'd have used Futhark runes

New on the grocery store shelves: Futhark-bits cereal, part of this complete pre-pillaging breakfast.

 

[Sungrazer]

Just on this note, I have been an atheist for over twenty years. For the first ten of that, I knew virtually nothing about evolution - just wasn't into it. Then I gradually began to read some science and learn about it. And I can honestly say that the closest I have come to 'leaving' atheism and becoming some brand of theist was when I began to understand evolutionary theory and how it works. I found it difficult to believe that such an amazing system, yielding such variety could exist without a creator.

I don't understand. How did you believe everything came about before? I came to the opposite conclusion. I was a Christian until I was 25 or so. My beliefs changed in part because I eventually came to understand that we can explain the natural world without resorting to supernatural causes. Evolution is beautiful proof of that.

 

[pinqy]

The words or the letters that express those words came first. The DNA did NOT come first. We see this when we study Hebrew. They have changed the alphabet over the years for man's convience and that makes it harder to see how what God said became expressed in the DNA and how life came from that.

Of course if you want to tell me where you think those chemicals come from I would be glad to hear your explaination. Because the only "primitive soup" they could have come from was alphabet soup. It all happened when "God said". Then God saw it was good.

Do you ever look at your posts after you write them to verify that they actually make sense? Because this one doesn't. Not even close.

It's obvious to anyone sane that DNA, and the chemicals that make it up, came before the letters that we (or anyone else) use to describe it and them.

It does make sense actually. The concept, which goes back to the earliest days of language, is that the word IS the thing. Words are representatives of objects or concepts and under ancient beliefs of magic, they're not just representative, they are the things themselves. We invoke an object when we speak of it, and initial creation comes from the word being said, bringing the object into existence. Tolkein used this concept in the Silmarillion, and Ursula LeGuin used the concept of Names as the basis of magic in her Earthsea series.

Biblically, we see this concept used in the Commandment against taking the Name of the Lord in vain. The Name is the Lord and by saying the Name you are invoking Him. This is why the Name was protected and rarely used. We also see it in John 1, where God pronounces the Word (Logos) and thus causing it to come into being.

JohnR7's belief then seems to be that ancient Hebrew is the representation of the sounds of the Words God used for Creation.

 

[Data]

There are no hidden messages and Science is the one that uses the Alphabet not me. In case you have not noticed "DNA" are letters from our alphabet. The only question here is what came first, the chemicals or the letters that we assign to the chemicals. I say the letters came first.

...

Hahahaha, whaaat? Oh man, this is serious isn't it.

DNA is not made up of letters from our or any language - it's made up of a series of 4 linked bases, guanine, adenine, cytosine and thymine. Their names were coined for no other reason than to make them easy to refer to, they don't have much other relevance. They could have just as easily been called base 1, 2, 3 and 4.

I don't know where you're getting this stuff from, but it's easily the most insane thing I've heard in a good while.

 

[arensb]

I was raised as a YEC. I've read Genesis many times. My (public) high school biology teacher was a YEC and he spent a semester teaching us why evolution was wrong.

...then I took a college level biology course. That was all it took.

You remind me of one of my favorite threads on talk.origins. The OP is a young woman who had grown up YEC and came to t.o after a long search for straight answers to straightforward questions like "what's a kind?" and "why did God make gorillas to look so much like humans?"

See also a more compact version in her post of the month.

 

[I_Love_Cheese]

There are no hidden messages and Science is the one that uses the Alphabet not me. In case you have not noticed "DNA" are letters from our alphabet. The only question here is what came first, the chemicals or the letters that we assign to the chemicals. I say the letters came first.

Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass

Through the letters we assign to DNA we can see how what God said, became DNA to bring forth the grass.

Just a question John, What was DNA made of before the Bible was written? Oh and what is the Hebrew equivalent of C and G or are they the same?

 

[RealityCheck]

Oh and what is the Hebrew equivalent of C and G or are they the same?

Double-snap!

 

[JohnR7]

Just a question John, What was DNA made of before the Bible was written? Oh and what is the Hebrew equivalent of C and G or are they the same?

It was made of the same thing it is made of now. Written language is a way to express spoken language. DNA is a way to express the spoken langage of God.

Let me give you something real simple so that a child can understand it. DNA code is made up of ACGT. The A here is the first letter in the alphabet. It is the beginning and DNA is also the beginning of everthing that is living. C stands for Christians. It is the Christians that are here to deliver God's message to the world. G of course stands for God. It is God who is expressing Himself in the DNA and thus God is expressing Himself in Creation. The T of course expresses God and the head or in His leadership over man. There is a lot that can be said about this, but now is not the place. If you have a small t then of course you have the cross that Jesus gave Himself for us. If you have a small g you will see that God has expressed Himself in us. The small c of course represents our humility before God. If we have pride or ego or are puffed up before God, then it is not going to work according to God's plan and purpose. The small a of course shows how things start off small in the beginning and over time they become greater. A journey of 1000 steps begins with one step. A study of the Bible begins with one word and one passage at a time.

That is pretty much the extent of it. In order to get more out of it, you would have to look at it in the origional Hebrew Language. We are limited using English because they have made changes to try to make it easier to learn and that tends to cause it to lose meaning.

 

[Beastt]

It does make sense actually. The concept, which goes back to the earliest days of language, is that the word IS the thing. Words are representatives of objects or concepts and under ancient beliefs of magic, they're not just representative, they are the things themselves. We invoke an object when we speak of it, and initial creation comes from the word being said, bringing the object into existence. Tolkein used this concept in the Silmarillion, and Ursula LeGuin used the concept of Names as the basis of magic in her Earthsea series.

Biblically, we see this concept used in the Commandment against taking the Name of the Lord in vain. The Name is the Lord and by saying the Name you are invoking Him. This is why the Name was protected and rarely used. We also see it in John 1, where God pronounces the Word (Logos) and thus causing it to come into being.

JohnR7's belief then seems to be that ancient Hebrew is the representation of the sounds of the Words God used for Creation.

I suppose it matters not, (to the believer), that reality demonstrates these concepts to be pure fallacy.

 

[JohnR7]

Oh and what is the Hebrew equivalent of C and G or are they the same?

The alphabet is the same in every language. The alphabet is based on the sounds of langauge. Of course before the Phoenician came up with Phonics or the Alphabet, there were a few forms of writting like in Egypt and China where they use a symbol or a picture to represent each word. This tends to be very difficult to learn. Using the alphabet then anyone can learn how to read or write, even a child. The word is written down the way it sounds. So it is very easy to develop a written language for any langage, anywhere in the world.

 

[RealityCheck]

The alphabet is the same in every language. The alphabet is based on the sounds of langauge. Of course before the Phoenician came up with Phonics or the Alphabet, there were a few forms of writting like in Egypt and China where they use a symbol or a picture to represent each word. This tends to be very difficult to learn. Using the alphabet then anyone can learn how to read or write, even a child. The word is written down the way it sounds. So it is very easy to develop a written language for any langage, anywhere in the world.

John, you owe me a new laptop. I've destroyed mine through all the coffee spewed on it after laughing so hard at your posts that I lose bladder control.

 

[JohnR7]

JohnR7's belief then seems to be that ancient Hebrew is the representation of the sounds of the Words God used for Creation.

Actually this is the ancient Hebrew belief or Hebrew creationism. This book is highly recommended as a guide to what the Hebrews believe.

 

[RealityCheck]

The alphabet is the same in every language. The alphabet is based on the sounds of langauge. Of course before the Phoenician came up with Phonics or the Alphabet, there were a few forms of writting like in Egypt and China where they use a symbol or a picture to represent each word. This tends to be very difficult to learn. Using the alphabet then anyone can learn how to read or write, even a child. The word is written down the way it sounds. So it is very easy to develop a written language for any langage, anywhere in the world.

Okay now that I've recovered a bit.

John, why then does Greek contain the letter "theta" for the "th" sound, but English has to combine two letters, neither of which makes that sound, to represent it?

Where is our equivalent of the greek "psi"?

Why does the original latin alphabet use the same symbols for U and V, and for I and J?

Why does the German alphabet have quite a few more letters than English?

Why doesn't Hebrew have any vowels?

How come English (and most other languages) don't have letters for clicks? We can make clicking noises and there are languages that use clicks as phonemes. So why don't we have those?

And FYI - the Phoenicians did not invent Phonics.

 

[I_Love_Cheese]

It was made of the same thing it is made of now. Written language is a way to express spoken language. DNA is a way to express the spoken langage of God.

Let me give you something real simple so that a child can understand it. DNA code is made up of ACGT. The A here is the first letter in the alphabet. It is the beginning and DNA is also the beginning of everthing that is living. C stands for Christians. It is the Christians that are here to deliver God's message to the world. G of course stands for God. It is God who is expressing Himself in the DNA and thus God is expressing Himself in Creation. The T of course expresses God and the head or in His leadership over man. There is a lot that can be said about this, but now is not the place. If you have a small t then of course you have the cross that Jesus gave Himself for us. If you have a small g you will see that God has expressed Himself in us. The small c of course represents our humility before God. If we have pride or ego or are puffed up before God, then it is not going to work according to God's plan and purpose. The small a of course shows how things start off small in the beginning and over time they become greater. A journey of 1000 steps begins with one step. A study of the Bible begins with one word and one passage at a time.

That is pretty much the extent of it. In order to get more out of it, you would have to look at it in the origional Hebrew Language. We are limited using English because they have made changes to try to make it easier to learn and that tends to cause it to lose meaning.

Now is a place, where is it?
Have you been there?
Can you tell us how to get there?

What if the code were written in Helium, Iridium , Sulfer and Tungsten?

Why did the Hebrews borrow their alphabet from the Phonecians, couldn't god make up his own that wouldn't get mistranslated all the time?