Has true faith been completely replaced by 'fantasy'?

[redblue22]

Of course, because it's obvious.

the truth is obvious? or is that truth is truth obvious? or is it that the truth is trustworthy truth that's obvious?

we can move on. maybe I'll get more out of it later. any thoughts on my original post after the part of wanting to have faith in the truth?

 

[redblue22]

I wonder. Can we be different and yet both trust the trustworthy truth that's true?

I would like to thank you for at least trying. Some people just prefer to judge instead of actually helping a student learn. I wonder why my questions go unanswered. A good example is when I wanted to learn about judging from Imagican. (we must remember that calling Imagican "judgmental" is a compliment in his faith)

Maybe he wasn't willing to teach me about judging, or maybe he was trying to teach judging through examples?

 

[Hieronymus]

the truth is obvious?

Hmm... no, it takes seeking it first, to the best of our ability.

or is that truth is truth obvious?

Yes

or is it that the truth is trustworthy truth that's obvious?

yes.

 

[Hieronymus]

I wonder. Can we be different and yet both trust the trustworthy truth that's true?

I think when we are convinced that God = Truth, we can both put our trust in Him, even when we have different views on it.

 

[Hieronymus]

You asked me to answer your questions:

1. how do you know that your beliefs are truth and not fantasy?

I have sought diligently and without presuppositions (or aware of my presuppostions being mere presuppositions) and have only followed where the evidence leads to.
This means it is by no means fantasy.
I have prayed to "the Originator" to let me find something true.
There's nothing more i could have done to actually find truth, it took me quite a while too and i'm still pursuing it.
I have found that God of the Bible is God and that the Bible is his written Word.

2. What does it mean to have "faith in truth"?

To me it means having faith in God, because God is Truth, because He is the author of our reality (He is the Creator).

3. you say we should question whether our beliefs are truth, can I assume you do the same thing?

Yes you can.
It's the only way to 'stay in truth' or 'proceed towards truth' i.m.o.

4. you said not to listen to what others tell us to believe. why do you want others to listen to you then?

The questions are not addressed to me, but i can answer them none the less.
Listening to someone is not the same as having someone tell you what to believe.
Speaking to someone, sharing ideas and what not, is not the same as telling someone what to believe.

5. you asked how do we know which god we are praying to. How do you know who you pray to?

When you're convinced God of the Bible is God, you pray to God of the Bible.
"Father who is in Heaven
thy Name be hallowed
thy Will be done."

 

[shelley1952]

I have no idea what your going on about.
I what what concerns you and how the
beliefs of others got in your underwear.

Well I see it has been a few weeks since anyone commented on this but never the less here goes......First of all I wasn't quite sure what to make of your comment SkyWriting, actually I understood Imagition was saying but your comment ????? That just doesnt sound real nice and I am not sure what you couldnt understand.

But I can assure you that 'if' I had 'bought in' to a particular 'church' or 'denomination' FIRST, it would be almost impossible to see it any other way than the manner in which it was 'introduced' to me. For 'who', once deciding upon a 'faith', wants to question whether their faith is valid or not? How many are willing to admit that what they 'believe' is 'false'?

When I was young I didnt really go to church much, mom would of taken us but had no drivers license and Dad didnt go. Later years my Mom started going but I was either already gone from home or it was right before I left home so I still didnt go. I was sent to VBS every summer when I was small, but we really didnt study we just did activities. Later years I still wasnt going to church but my Mother would talk about the sermons from her Pastor and she was taught that the things the disciples did ended with the death of the last Apostles and praying in tongues was of the devil. I didnt become a believer until I was 48 but still I didnt have too much previous Biblical learning. After first becoming a believer I listened to Pastors on TBN, well actually thats how I came to Christ and understood what praying in tongues was all about so a couple of those Pastors did help me. But as I started studying on my own and really digging and praying I quickly realized I had gotten a lot of wrong teaching on TBN. I went to several churches and realized I was getting teaching from the standpoint of whatever each denomination put an emphasis on. There was a couple of denominational churches I already knew not to try but to give them the benefit of the doubt I did read up on their beliefs and customs. As I continued to study and pray the more I saw how so many have strayed from the original teachings of our Lord. I am new to Christianity compared to lot of people. The only thing I know to do is keep studying and praying. I do have a Pastor. The thing I do like about him and anyone that is allowed to teach in this church is they do a lot of studying themselves, they do a lot of fasting and they always point you to the fact that we have Holy Spirit in us, we have a Bible, which if you dont they will give you a good Bible, and to check everything they say according to The Bible and Holy Spirit (for Jesus said He sent Him to teach us) and by praying, fasting and studying ourselves. So they dont expect us to just set in church week after week and be spoon fed whatever dribble they might choose and want us to just swallow it like good little children.
So you see, I have had to admit many times I was wrong in my thinking and who knows what else I may find out I m wrong about before I go home. And God bless us one and all !!

 

[watchman 2]

So often I encounter those who's faith seems more like fantasy than 'true faith'.

The Bible doesn't teach us to merely have 'faith'. It teaches us to have ''faith in the truth''.

So if one's faith isn't based on 'truth', then it can nothing other than 'fantasy'. Fantasy of their own design or designed by someone else.

And isn't that what 'most religion' is? A particular person comes up with their 'own fantasy', (interpretation of the Bible or their own ideas formed from 'outside' of the Bible), and then convince others to follow the 'same fantasy'?

That would probably explain why the 'word religion' is only in the Bible five times and four of the uses of the term are in response to people following 'false' beliefs.

So that begs the question: Does God really want us to follow 'fantasies' and call them 'faith'? And what possible benefit could we obtain by calling our fantasies 'faith'?

The Bible tells us that we 'must' serve God in 'spirit and truth'. How are we to accomplish this if we fail to learn the 'truth'? If all we 'learn' are what 'other men' tell us to believe, (the churches), and we 'never even question' it's validity, what could lead 'anyone' to believe that they follow in 'truth'?

Shouldn't that lead each and every one of us to question any and everything that someone in a 'church' would attempt to teach us? For the Bible warns us that there are many out there that would 'make merchandise of us' if we allow them to. So isn't it 'our' responsibility to 'seek' the truth rather than simply accepting 'anything' that a 'church' would attempt to teach us?

No different than those that simply accept whatever the government 'tells them' without seeking out the 'truth'. It would only take a couple of generations of such irresponsibility and the government is capable of leading us completely down an imaginary path to destruction instead of prosperity. Everybody 'knows' this, yet refuse to apply the same concept to their 'religion'. They simply 'accept' what they are 'taught' and rarely if ever even question whether it's the truth or not.

Having studied many 'religions', I find everyone of them to be based more on what 'men' have 'created' than what we are offered in the Bible.

But I can assure you that 'if' I had 'bought in' to a particular 'church' or 'denomination' FIRST, it would be almost impossible to see it any other way than the manner in which it was 'introduced' to me. For 'who', once deciding upon a 'faith', wants to question whether their faith is valid or not? How many are willing to admit that what they 'believe' is 'false'?

I have heard many when being informed of facts concerning their spouses or family members 'state': I don't want to hear that. And they 'don't. They would rather live with their 'beliefs' that are utterly contrary to the 'truth'.

Is it any different with the 'faith' of most that have been 'duped' into a false sense of faith that more fantasy than 'truth'?

Blessings,

MEC

So what is true Faith ? Unless i missed it , you didn't state that , at least in this thread.

 

[watchman 2]

So what is true Faith ? Unless i missed it , you didn't state that , at least in this thread.

Can anyone say what he means by "true Faith ?"