Has holiness become a dirty word in our churches?

[jiminpa]

Adam's sin was rebelling against God. The knowledge of good and evil was medium of the rebellion.

 

[Freedom Now]

Adam's sin was rebelling against God. The knowledge of good and evil was medium of the rebellion.

Is rebellion the same as disobedience?

 

[Alithis]

Umm yes lol.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Is rebellion the same as disobedience?

no.

 

[FireDragon76]

That sounds like a pathological view of holiness that is going to end in religious burnout, if not for you, then someone else.

As Augustine said, "Love, and do what you will".

 

[Gideons300]

That sounds like a pathological view of holiness that is going to end in religious burnout, if not for you, then someone else.

As Augustine said, "Love, and do what you will".

And when we finally break before God and admit we do not know how to love Him with all of our heart, and confess that we do not love our neighbors as ourselves, nor if truth be told we do want to, we will finally be awakened to the truth that "doing what we will" is what has gotten us into the hypocritical, lukewarm, earthly minded mess the church finds itself in as we speak. We see doing God's will as restrictive and boring, hard and unpleasant. How Satan has succeeded in blinding us to the glory of fully submitting to do His will alone. Do we not see, that is where we adibe in Him, and His glory overshadows us and fills us with joyful awe and wonder?

Evil is increasingly these final days of man doing "as he wills". We see it unfolding more and more every day. The very fabric of society is unraveling before our eyes and millions are searching for something sure to hold on to in these ever darkening and unsure days. We are to guide them by our light to the answer, but the church is paralyzed, and unable to counter this with light, for we ourselves do not know how to walk in it, nor how to help others gain it. We shrug, accepting the darkness as inevitable, and as the word says, everyone looks after his own house, and none looks after the house of God. Do we not realize that judgment will begin with us, not them?

Our view of holiness is tainted by our fleshly eyes. We see it as something WE must do, and continue doing unrelentingly, and if it were on our shoulders, you are correct, burn-out would follow. But praise God, it is not on our shoulders at all. He, the captain of our salvation, our broad shouldered God has agreed to be yoked with us! He is the one who plants us on the highway of holiness and then keeps us there! Glory to God! We are told that even the weakest among us can walk there in perfect rest. Perhaps our problem is that we are too strong, amen? And maybe just a tad stiff necked.

Walking in holiness is perfect rest, perfect peace, and pure unadulterated joy, but how Satan has polluted our image of what it is to be holy...... fully God's possession, centered on the potter's wheel. He has convinced us that to be holy is a work we must do, and continue doing. How wrong we are.

No, brother, it is when we finally surrender and believe the good news that our fleshly nature did actually die when Christ died, and that we are now no longer in the flesh and owe it nothing, it is then that we discover that rest and holiness are synonymous. He has promised to not only forgive us, but to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness, and then to keep us there! We are not called to be saved in our sins but them!

Soon the scales will fall from our eyes, as we discard our fleshly nature, not by intense religious flavored self effort, but by an audacious profession of faith that it is no longer us that live, but Christ who lives in us. And as we awake, we will marvel at the power real grace has, for it is on God's strong shoulders to take us from positional holiness to possessional holiness. Can our God be THAT good? Can holiness be the easy yoke rather than the soul crushing hard one of religious bondage? We are about to find out. We are about to be amazed.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[FireDragon76]

There is no law against love (Gal 5:23). Augustine spoke correctly when he said "Love, and do what you will". This is not antinomianism, this is an acknowledgement of the freedom given to us in grace. Without this freedom, it is not possible to truly love God and our neighbor.

 

[Gideons300]

no.

Have we slipped away from truth so badly that we will quibble about whether disobedience and rebellion are the same? What, are we contending that one is bad and one is not so bad?

Imagine yourself, each one of you, on the day the books are opened and we have to give account for our lives. The affairs and concerns and desires of this life will have passed like a vapor of smoke, totally insignificant. What will matter is what we did with Jesus. Did we make gain in Him, as the profitable servants did with their talents of gold? Or, will we closer resemble the one who made no gain?

Will we smugly say to our Lord, the one who suffered and died to free us from the bonds of sin "Well, at least I was not rebellious. I was only disobedient." In light of the words of Jesus Himself "You are my friends if you do whatsoever that I command you.", how do our lives stack up? Will we be bold as so many are now that and contend that our willful disobedience is but a small matter because we have grace? Are we aware of what happened to the unprofitable servant? What God gave to him, God took back and gave to another. Ouch.

Listen, guys. If our sins that bind us are true weaknesses, and we hate the fact that we fail Him, and we long to be freed from the grip of them but do not know how to stop, good news is coming. The deliverer is about to roll up His sleeves and show Himself strong. But if we are trying to pass off sins that we willfully commit as "weaknesses", when we have no hatred for our behavior, and no desire to repent and obey our Lord, the road we are on right now leads to destruction, not to life.

It is this exact mentality that afflicted the Laodecians. They used the grace of God as a safety net while they continued to dance around the golden calf. They boasted that because of their deeper understands not of grace, they had need of nothing and continued to live for their pleasure. This, dear friends, is lukewarmness, caused by willful sin. Are our ears open to God's perspective on the matter? He said it makes Him sick, and those who continue will be spit out of His mouth.

We are told that to willfully sin is to put Christ to an open shame and that there remains no more sacrifice for sins for such a one. People ask me what I mean when I say we need to awake. This is a good place to start, an honest assessment of whether or not we truly are "in the faith". Lest we forget, we need to be reminded of what the angry master said after taking away His gift from the unprofitable servant. The words are found in Luke 19:

"Then bring all those who would not have me to reign over them, and slay them before me."

Double ouch. Rebellion? Yes. Disobedient? That too. We have tried to make Jesus our savior and even call Him Lord, but as to actually meaning it, and letting Him BE Lord over us? I fear far too many fall into this category. I pray we hear the call of our Lord in this late hour. It is not too late, but a shaking is coming. Things are not going to continue as they have. God is going to force the issue because He loves us so much and is not willing that bay should perish, but He will not be mocked.

Now is the time to seek His face and cry out to Him to cleanse us, free us and then, praise God, change us from the inside out. Hardened hearts from years of willfully doing things we know displease God CAN be softened. God is able to make them new and longs to do so. But the desire to please Him must surpass the desire to please us. It is when we finally see the culprit is our fleshly old nature and truly grow to hate it, God will then open eyes to how to be truly freed from its grip.

There will be no more "one foot in this world and one in Heaven." Those days are coming to a close. The shaking will see to that. We are about to clearly see that real salvation is being saved from the old US, our old rebellion, disobedient sinful nature. The valley of decision is coming into view and a clear choice will have to be made.be To think we can stay where we are and that all is good because of grace is to refuse Him that speaks to us now, warning us to be vigilant in this last hour and to run INTO Jesus, our strong and mighty tower, and find real safety.

Do not fear that such an action will make you miserable. That is Satan hissing "Has God said....?" When we can truly say "It is no more I that live but Christ who now lives in me" , to our amazement we will find that our previous life only made us miserable. Joy is coming. I pray all let it overtake them.

Blessings,

Gids

 

[FireDragon76]

The unprofitable servant got what he feared. Which only shows that perfect love casts off fear. A message of anxiety that you seem to be preaching doesn't seem compatible with that.

Christ preached to the Laodiceans... are you Christ?

 

[Freedom Now]

There is no law against love (Gal 5:23). Augustine spoke correctly when he said "Love, and do what you will".

Jesus spoke correctly when HE said,...

If a man loves ME, he will keep MY word...

and

If you love ME, you will keep MY commandments. ..

and

He who has MY commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves ME, ......

 

[Gideons300]

The unprofitable servant got what he feared. Which only shows that perfect love casts off fear. A message of anxiety that you seem to be preaching doesn't seem compatible with that.

Christ preached to the Laodiceans... are you Christ?

The unprofitable servant had what he had been given taken away because he was unprofitable .He made no gain with what had been entrusted to him. Why he was the unprofitable did not enter into the master's decisions. And we best remember tha it is the fearful, the doubting and the unbelieving who will find heaven's door shut on them.

And brother, the message which God has asked me to share brings anxiety only to our flesh. And we'll it should. The truth is, no man still walking in his old nature can love as Christ desires of us. It is impossible until self is deposed and Christ is made both savior AND Lord.

But praise God, when we finally come broken before the Lord and cry out for deliverance from our unruly fleshly nature, and admit that we cannot love Him with all of our hearts, and we certainly cannot love others as we love ourselves, God will hear the cries of such a one and reward him by planting him on the highway of holiness..... and keeping him there. New natures await each one of us, but it is those who know they have need of the great physician who will find the narrow way to overcoming first.

Blessings,

Gideon
.

 

[Alithis]

That sounds like a pathological view of holiness that is going to end in religious burnout, if not for you, then someone else.

As Augustine said, "Love, and do what you will".

Odd he said that... "Do what you will",is a line of text fplks have told me is in the satanic bible.

Where as the Lord jesus said..." If you love me ,keep my commandments ...."

 

[FireDragon76]

Odd he said that... "Do what you will",is a line of text fplks have told me is in the satanic bible.

Where as the Lord jesus said..." If you love me ,keep my commandments ...."

Love, and do what you will is not satanic. The emphasis is on love. But love is not a law in the strict sense of obligation, else it would not be love.

 

[W2L]

Love, and do what you will is not satanic. The emphasis is on love. But love is not a law in the strict sense of obligation, else it would not be love.

Cool, no need for sacraments then.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Odd he said that... "Do what you will",is a line of text....

Straight from the Bible actually !
"EVERYONE DID what was right in their own eyes"(No Righteousness, No Right Living, NOT what GOD WILL, total anarchy/ chaos/ SIN)

 

[FireDragon76]

Cool, no need for sacraments then.

Are you just trying to be offend me? That doesn't seem like a nice thing to do, especially as I didn't bring up sacramental theology.

 

[Si_monfaith]

I am confused. I have taken great pains to clarify that in no way am I espousing works as a requirement for our salvation. I have reiterated again and again that God promises that 0bedience WILL follow them that believe. If it does not, if fruits of the Spirit are absent, even after 10 or 20 years of being a Christian, something is wrong, for we will know true believers by their fruits. This is not my opinion, but God's promise.

And yet, again and again, with no scriptures to back your assertion, and with no answer for the msny scriptures presented to you that make it clear that God promises that obedience will happen because we now have new natures that want to obey, you simpy recite what you obviously have been taughtand simply regurgitate it.Brother, I mean no disrespect, but how can we discuss things if you do not back up assertionswith more than simply your opinion? if you do not present scriptures that back up your claim that once saved, a man can commit heinous sins, refuse to repent, live like the devil, and still make Heaven their home, why sould I believe you? I can presnt at least 15 very clear warnings that tell us the opposite.

Blessings,

Gideon

Sin is accounted only for those under the law (rom 5:13).

Using the term sin presupposes that the person chooses to be under law & thereby has rejected the grace which has set them free from curses (galat3:13).

 

[Gideons300]

Sin is accounted only for those under the law (rom 5:13).

Using the term sin presupposes that the person chooses to be under law & thereby has rejected the grace which has set them free from curses (galat3:13).

So back to the question you seem bent on avoiding answering.

If a Christian falls into adultery, and then digs in his heels and stays there, refusing to repent, because he is not under law, it really is not sin at all, so his standing with God is fine and heaven awaits. Do you agree with this?

If so, then how is it possible that the letters to the churches were even written? Why would
God threaten to spew people out of His mouth? Why would James write to Christians and tell them they were spiritual adulterers and to "cleanse your hands, you sinners"? Your one track view forces us to ignore huge portions of scripture simply because it cannot be made to line up with the doctrine you espouse.

How is it even possible to turn grace into lasciviousness if lasciviousness is really not bad at all? Why would John write warning us "if we sin" if we cannot? It simply boggles my mind how Satan could worm his way into the heart of our faith..... grace.... and twist it to where we do not fear continuing in sin at all. How can our hearts be hardened by continuing in sin if we can't sin? How do you answer all of these obvious contradictions? Do you yourself not want to figure out these obvious issues you seem bent on ignoring?

Lord, open up eyes by opening up hearts.

Gideon

 

[theologyandfishing]

I have been very blessed and disturbed by this whole thread.

One one hand, I grew up hearing OSAS however, what I've read in the Bible and what I've felt a deep conviction about is quite different.
I have been blessed to read Gideon's post as I have been "fighting off" the "legalistic" words that keep ringing in my ears. I am in no way perfect! Far from it! But I know what that my Lord is Holy, and has called me to live in holiness. I have been silently talking about this with my wife and we agree but can't be said loud in our community without being tagged legalist or "unaware of grace"

Thank you Gideon and others. You have been used by God to confirm what I have been wrestling with for years.

On another note, I am disturbed to read comments from a false gospel
Looking to appease itching ears.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gideons300]

I have been very blessed and disturbed by this whole thread.

One one hand, I grew up hearing OSAS however, what I've read in the Bible and what I've felt a deep conviction about is quite different.
I have been blessed to read Gideon's post as I have been "fighting off" the "legalistic" words that keep ringing in my ears. I am in no way perfect! Far from it! But I know what that my Lord is Holy, and has called me to live in holiness. I have been silently talking about this with my wife and we agree but can't be said loud in our community without being tagged legalist or "unaware of grace"

Thank you Gideon and others. You have been used by God to confirm what I have been wrestling with for years.

On another note, I am disturbed to read comments from a false gospel
Looking to appease itching ears.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you for your encouraging post. I would like to take this opportunity to clarify what I mean (and do not mean) about walking without sinning.

It does not mean "perfect", meaning there is no more changes to be made. It is not a state of being we "arrive at". It is a walk, continually abiding in Jesus. The truth is, true growth in grace will always continue, but as the years pass, we will be more and more laden down with spiritual fruits, characteristics of Christ in us coming to the surface.

We must get away from the "outside in" method of holiness whereby the Pharisees stumbled. It leads inevitably to legalism. It is death. In truth the vast majority of the church had fallen into this error, working on outer visible sins, and in essence trying to grow from fleshly men to new natured men. It simply does not work. After years, even decades of following this method, it should have dawned on us long ago that at th rate we are going, we will look remarkably like we did when we started, just more outwardly "religious". Our sins will be those hard to see one on the surface as we try to make a fair show in the flesh, but the self ruling heart is still firmly on the throne. And it will not fool God.

What we Ned to be awakened to in "inside-out Christianity". When a man obeys God and agrees with Him that when Christ died, he died, and when Christ came up new, so did he (the two things we must know as fact in Romans 6) and then ACTS on it by reckoning he myself as dead, confessing that deep in his inner being, he is no more fleshly nstured but a new man, it it then our new nature that has always been there is released. Finally, real progression begins!

Look. We will still look like we did the minute before our reckoning ourselves dead. Habits we had , we will still have. If a man was prone to anger, a situation arises and he may still get angry. The Spirit of God inside will be faithful to immediately convict him, and if he then lets it go, because now he can, he has not sinned! (Be ye angry and sin not. Let not th sun go down on your anger.) Now if after conviction, he holds onto his grudge, NOW he has sinned. Time for some repentance.

Walking without sinning is simply always saying yes to the Holy Spirit. No rules. It is the Holy Spirit a RULING, praise God! Our outside may still be flawed, needing spiritual fruits to replace fleshly ones developed over a lifetime of practice, LOL. BUT, he can still reckon he is dead to sin, for in his core being, his heart, he is new. That is inside out Christianity, almost unheard of,in the modern church but that is soon to change. We are being awakened to truth that works, truth that sets free indeed.

When we look into a mirror, who do we see? If we look into the mirror and see the glory of God inside us, new men, AND continue therein, we are changed from glory to glory, inner holiness growing towards the surface. But if we look into the mirror and listen to satan's accusations, we forget what manner of man we were and we begin to live again like men in the flesh. The lesson. Let us not be forgetful hearers but doers of the word. And when the men came to Jesus and asked him that question " What must we DO that we might work the works of God? Do you remember what He said "Believe on Him whom He has sent."
.
Here is a huge lesson to learn. When Satan comes tempting or condemning, our minds do not hear him whisper "You are a lousy Christian". He whispers "I am a lousy Christian" and we hear it in a OUR voice, as if it is our thought. How cunning. So how do we defend against that? We raise our shield of faith that says "It is no more I that live but Christ who lives in me". We agree with God who tells us that we are no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit and that we owe the flesh a big fat nothing. Praise God. It drives Satan crazy, LOL.

Walking without willfully sinning is NOT perfection. It is simply avoidance of disobedience.... negatives. Positives have yet to be grown in us, and God promises to make them happen. And as we walk in this amazing faith, overcoming the world, the flesh and the devil by faith, standing fast in the faith, we will be amazed to see dormant buds of God's fruit in us start to swell and blossom. It will get to the point that the changes in us will be amazing, and the most amazed will be US! This works, guys, it really does.

So what happens if we slip? Not when, but if? People will stop me here and say "Bt if you are new, how can you sin? Easy. Our faith at the beginning is weak. But as we stand in faith and grow in faith and abide in Him, as we fight our good fight of faith, we become established in it. And since it is always according to your faith be it unto you, a man established in the faith will simply stop ALL sin. He can technically sin, but why? Who would want to after finally learning to abide in Him, and Him in us?

Ok, back to my point. IF we do fall back into a sin, we do not throw up our hands and say "Well, that didn't work." Nor do we deny the sin. We acknowledge it to our loving God. We repent of it and ask forgiveness. But there is one more thing we must...... MUST..... do. We must pick back up our shield of faith and reckon ourselves dead to sin and agree with God that we are new creatures nonetheless. Audacious faith, and it drives Satan crazy, LOL.

You see, he is not after just getting us to sin. He wsnts to pry our testimony out of our hearts and mouths. Why? Because a Christian walking in his new man is a dangerous thing to the kingdom of darkness. That man's joy, his peace, his singleness of eye is totally appealing to all who love th light and simply do not find it in Sunday go to meeting church. Right now it is one here, another there who are discovering with great joy how to walk pleasing to God always. We are beginning to wake up. But wait until we start popping like kernels of popcorn. The fields are ripe.

The church is a slumbering giant, but we are about to awake, arise, and put on strength. The real latter rain is about to begin. Multitudes of true believers have never been told who they really are. But there is a part of them, deep inside, just like you and your wife, dear brother, who long to be obedient, long to really love as God desires, and who are ready to give up the trying to be holy in their efforts, climb out of the boat, and walk on the water to Jesus.

The highway of holiness awaits us. It is for both the weak and the strong, and in that order!
In Revelations we are told that in the last days the saints would overcome the devil by the blood of the lamb AND the word of their testimony. We are being awakened to the second part of the gospel, hat aGod is looking for weak saints so desperate to please Her m that they will believe the unbelievable, that we have new natures that not only want to obey, but CAN obey, and do it with audacious joy. Man, I love yet hat word!

Be greatly blessed, dear brother. If I can be of help to you, you have but to ask.

Gideon