Has holiness become a dirty word in our churches?

[Gideons300]

Your life seems not to be Christ centered but your holiness centered.
Jesus is the only way to salvation from beginning till end as he is alpha & omega.

In the modern church, we have succeeded in separating the two.... holiness and Christ. In the early church, there was no separation. At the very beginning, purity was of supreme importance and when Ananias and Saphira lied to appear more in the eyes of others, they learned very quickly that holiness and purity were an essential part of the walk Christ wants for us.

The truth be told, how many of us would conveniently come down with a cold if we knew at the next Sunday service,court hearts would be examined by the Holy Spirit to see if we were truly walking in all the light of truth we had been given? We are told great fear came upon the church.

We hear that and cringe. What a horrible thing, we think. We are not supposed to fear God! Nothing can separate us from the love of God. We do not even have to repent when we sin. Our salvation is a done deal, and Christ has assured us that even sin hardened hearts are still given the thumbs up as He now winks at our sins, right?

We have ignored scriptures telling us to be holy, for He is holy. We have scoffed at clear scriptures telling us that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Why? Because we have no clue how to get full control over our fleshly natures, so we opt for simply ignoring all those "legalistic" verses rather than falling on our knees and begging the Lord to show us how to walk as living sacrifices.

Is not this mentality the epitome of the Laodecian's lukewarmness, where we are told the positionally we are holy so relax..... chill..... stop being such a downer? We remain ignorant of the fact that one of the prime purposes of grace is that it teach us HOW to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts. We do not hear exhortations to holy living from our pulpits because the vast majority of our ministers have no hunger for such a glorious walk themselves so they have no clue how to proceed. Plus, they fear if they do, it will empty the offering plates. To them, walking in true holiness as living sacrifices is not freedom, but bondage. It is not joy, but dour and miserableness personified. We have swallowed the lie, and the result is a shallow Christianity that changes few and impresses even fewer.

The world is not buying what we are peddling, because of the huge disconnect between what they know instinctively Christ should do for His own and how we as His representatives are actually living, which is summed up as forgiveness, a free unconditional buss pass to Heaven and little if any desire to let Him reign over us or purify our behavior.

Bless us? Yup, we hear that plenty. Change us? Free us? Cause us to walk as joy filled obedient children? There it gets awfully, awfully quiet, amen? Praise God, all that is beginning to change, but I suspect God is going to free the prostitutes and drug addicts first to finally provoke us to jealousy and seek for it ourselves. History will be repeated no doubt.

Christ's will for us is clear. He wants holy children and He will do it for us....if we hunger for such a thing with an unrelenting desire to walk in full obedience to the one we say we serve. When we finally realize that pleasing Him is where the real blessing is found, and we set our affections fully on Him as we seek first the kingdom of God AND His righteousness instead of being satisfied with bus passes to Heaven and hearts firmly entrenched in this life, we will discover to our amazement that holiness, joy and Christ are all one in the same. But there is an old mindset that must die, and that is no easy task. Thank God He is patient with us. He will awaken us, even if we want to sleep on a bit longer.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Gideons300]

In the modern church, we have succeeded in separating the two.... holiness and Christ. In the early church, there was no separation. At the very beginning, purity was of supreme importance and when Ananias and Saphira lied to appear more in the eyes of others, they learned very quickly that holiness and purity were an essential part of the walk Christ wants for us.

The truth be told, how many of us would conveniently come down with a cold if we knew at the next Sunday service, our hearts would be examined by the Holy Spirit to see if we were truly walking in all the light and truth we had been given?

We are told great fear came upon the church. We hear that and cringe. What a horrible thing, we think. We are not supposed to fear God! Nothing can separate us from the love of God. We do not even have to repent when we sin. Our salvation is a done deal, and Christ has assured us that even sin hardened hearts are still given the thumbs up as He now winks at our sins, right? But Godly fear is the door into true joy and abundant life and the early church took the gospel to the entire world in one generation. No publicists, no programs, no printing presses or radio promos. Just the power of Christ in them as they walked on the highway of holiness.

We have ignored scriptures telling us of the need to be holy, for He is holy. We have scoffed at clear scriptures telling us that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Scriptures like that are always referring to "other people", not us. Why? Because we have no clue how to get full control over our fleshly natures, so if those verses are actually for us, we are in dire straits. So we opt for simply ignoring all those "legalistic" verses rather than falling on our knees and begging the Lord to show us how to walk as living sacrifices.

Is this mentality not the epitome of the Laodecian's lukewarmness, where we are told the positionally we are holy so relax..... chill..... stop being such a downer? We remain ignorant of the fact that one of the prime purposes of grace is that it teach us HOW to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts. We do not hear exhortations to holy living from our pulpits because the vast majority of our ministers have no hunger for such a glorious walk themselves so they have no clue how to proceed. Plus, they fear if they do, it will empty the offering plates. To them, walking in true holiness as living sacrifices is not freedom, but bondage. It is not joy, but dour living and miserableness personified. We have swallowed the lie, and the result is a shallow Christianity that changes few and impresses even fewer.

The world is not buying what we are peddling, because of the huge disconnect between what they know instinctively Christ should do for His own and how we as His representatives are actually living, which is summed up as forgiveness, a free unconditional buss pass to Heaven and little if any desire to let Him reign over us or purify our behavior.

Bless us? Yup, we hear that plenty. Change us? Free us? Cause us to walk as joy filled obedient children? There it gets awfully, awfully quiet, amen? Praise God, all that is beginning to change, but I suspect God is going to free the prostitutes and drug addicts first to finally provoke us to jealousy and seek for it ourselves. History will be repeated no doubt.

Christ's will for us is clear. He wants holy children and He will do it for us....if we hunger for such a thing with an unrelenting desire to walk in full obedience to the one we say we serve. When we finally realize that pleasing Him is where the real blessing is found, and we set our affections fully on Him as we seek first the kingdom of God AND His righteousness instead of being satisfied with bus passes to Heaven and hearts firmly entrenched in this life, we will discover to our amazement that holiness, joy and Christ are all one in the same. But there is an old mindset that must die, and that is no easy task. Thank God He is patient with us. He will awaken us, even if we want to sleep on a bit longer.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[jiminpa]

Your life seems not to be Christ centered but your holiness centered.

Wow! just wow.

 

[Si_monfaith]

In the modern church, we have succeeded in separating the two.... holiness and Christ. In the early church, there was no separation. At the very beginning, purity was of supreme importance and when Ananias and Saphira lied to appear more in the eyes of others, they learned very quickly that holiness and purity were an essential part of the walk Christ wants for us.

The truth be told, how many of us would conveniently come down with a cold if we knew at the next Sunday service,court hearts would be examined by the Holy Spirit to see if we were truly walking in all the light of truth we had been given? We are told great fear came upon the church.

We hear that and cringe. What a horrible thing, we think. We are not supposed to fear God! Nothing can separate us from the love of God. We do not even have to repent when we sin. Our salvation is a done deal, and Christ has assured us that even sin hardened hearts are still given the thumbs up as He now winks at our sins, right?

We have ignored scriptures telling us to be holy, for He is holy. We have scoffed at clear scriptures telling us that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Why? Because we have no clue how to get full control over our fleshly natures, so we opt for simply ignoring all those "legalistic" verses rather than falling on our knees and begging the Lord to show us how to walk as living sacrifices.

Is not this mentality the epitome of the Laodecian's lukewarmness, where we are told the positionally we are holy so relax..... chill..... stop being such a downer? We remain ignorant of the fact that one of the prime purposes of grace is that it teach us HOW to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts. We do not hear exhortations to holy living from our pulpits because the vast majority of our ministers have no hunger for such a glorious walk themselves so they have no clue how to proceed. Plus, they fear if they do, it will empty the offering plates. To them, walking in true holiness as living sacrifices is not freedom, but bondage. It is not joy, but dour and miserableness personified. We have swallowed the lie, and the result is a shallow Christianity that changes few and impresses even fewer.

The world is not buying what we are peddling, because of the huge disconnect between what they know instinctively Christ should do for His own and how we as His representatives are actually living, which is summed up as forgiveness, a free unconditional buss pass to Heaven and little if any desire to let Him reign over us or purify our behavior.

Bless us? Yup, we hear that plenty. Change us? Free us? Cause us to walk as joy filled obedient children? There it gets awfully, awfully quiet, amen? Praise God, all that is beginning to change, but I suspect God is going to free the prostitutes and drug addicts first to finally provoke us to jealousy and seek for it ourselves. History will be repeated no doubt.

Christ's will for us is clear. He wants holy children and He will do it for us....if we hunger for such a thing with an unrelenting desire to walk in full obedience to the one we say we serve. When we finally realize that pleasing Him is where the real blessing is found, and we set our affections fully on Him as we seek first the kingdom of God AND His righteousness instead of being satisfied with bus passes to Heaven and hearts firmly entrenched in this life, we will discover to our amazement that holiness, joy and Christ are all one in the same. But there is an old mindset that must die, and that is no easy task. Thank God He is patient with us. He will awaken us, even if we want to sleep on a bit longer.

Blessings,

Gideon

Ananias matter is one of being under law rather than his action. Curse works only for those under law. Under grace curse has no place.

This was what happened to adam. Curse came to him when he chose law & not becz he was moving in God's presence in eden in a naked fashion.

To be precise, under law actions are judged but under grace actions are not seen-eph2:8,9.

 

[Gideons300]

Ananias matter is one of being under law rather than his action. Curse works only for those under law. Under grace curse has no place.

This was what happened to adam. Curse came to him when he chose law & not becz he was moving in God's presence in eden in a naked fashion.

To be precise, under law actions are judged but under grace actions are not seen-eph2:8,9.

Ananias matter is one of being under law rather than his action. Curse works only for those under law. Under grace curse has no place.

This was what happened to adam. Curse came to him when he chose law & not becz he was moving in God's presence in eden in a naked fashion.

To be precise, under law actions are judged but under grace actions are not seen-eph2:8,9.

There was no law when Adam disobeyed. There was just disobedience. If what you are professing was true, then every single apostle was way off base in warning us to not be deceived by sin. We are told to be vigilant, to keep our bodies under, to walk out our time here as living sacrifices, holy and pure.

But because we have not been taught how to do so, and tried in our own strength to do so, and failed, instead of seeking God's face as to how a holy and obedient walk is to be done, we have fallen into unbelief, that such a walk is impossible because we could not do it. Once we come to that conclusion, the multitude of scriptures urging us to holy walks are gutted, deemed legalistic and irrelavant, because we have a "new" revelation of grace.

Now, if the fruit of such revelation was more hunger for purity, more desire to put away all sin in our lives, a deeper agape love for others as we long to serve rather than be served, perhaps it would deserve more study. But the sad truth is that the Christians who have adopted such a stance, beLieving that there is no danger in sin or that it can our standing with God are not fervent in Spirit, seeking more of God and desiring to be conformed to His image. They have opted for contentment without godliness.....Christlike behavior. Instead of wrestling in prayer for souls, they more often than not relax, and think this is the rest God has for them.

You say that under grace, actions are not seen, yet Paul himself said that he pressed, he kept his body under. He said if we win willfully, there remains no more sacrifice for sin, only a fearful looking for of judgment. Peter told his flock to not be deceived by a gospel that pleasing itching ears. James said friendship with the world is adultery with God. John said he that says that he knows God and does not obey Him is a liar and the truth is not in him. It seems clear that what you are saying is simply in disagreement with the Word. What we do, how we live, it does not save us, but it is the fruit of a living relationship with our Father.

What do we do if disobedience is in our lives? First, we feel Godly sorrow. It should break our hearts that we continue to disobey the one we serve and do things that Christ had to die to deliver us from. And then, if we cannot gain the victory, we have to confront the real culprit.....unbelief. God told us that He promises to cause us....yes, cause us, to walk obediently. He tells us our shield of faith will quench ALL the fiery arrows of Satan. He tells us that He will not allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist. There IS real freedom from sinning, and when we believe it, everything changes.

Please understand. I am not preaching sinless perfection. We still must be transformed. Christ's nature must be grown in us. But we do not grow from willful disobedience into holiness a bit at a time. We escape our old nature in a moment by a radical, wonderful act of audacious faith. We do so by agreeing with our God that our fleshly nature died when Christ died. We put it off by faith. We put on our new natures and stand with our shields held high that we not only can obey. We WILL obey. Why? Because the old us is dead.

When that happens, get ready to get excited. Fighting from the point of victory, rather than fighting to get it, makes all the difference in the world.

Blessings,

Gids

 

[Si_monfaith]

There was no law when Adam disobeyed. There was just disobedience. If what you are professing was true, then every single apostle was way off base in warning us to not be deceived by sin. We are told to be vigilant, to keep our bodies under, to walk out our time here as living sacrifices, holy and pure.

But because we have not been taught how to do so, and tried in our own strength to do so, and failed, instead of seeking God's face as to how a holy and obedient walk is to be done, we have fallen into unbelief, that such a walk is impossible because we could not do it. Once we come to that conclusion, the multitude of scriptures urging us to holy walks are gutted, deemed legalistic and irrelavant, because we have a "new" revelation of grace.

Now, if the fruit of such revelation was more hunger for purity, more desire to put away all sin in our lives, a deeper agape love for others as we long to serve rather than be served, perhaps it would deserve more study. But the sad truth is that the Christians who have adopted such a stance, beLieving that there is no danger in sin or that it can our standing with God are not fervent in Spirit, seeking more of God and desiring to be conformed to His image. They have opted for contentment without godliness.....Christlike behavior. Instead of wrestling in prayer for souls, they more often than not relax, and think this is the rest God has for them.

You say that under grace, actions are not seen, yet Paul himself said that he pressed, he kept his body under. He said if we win willfully, there remains no more sacrifice for sin, only a fearful looking for of judgment. Peter told his flock to not be deceived by a gospel that pleasing itching ears. James said friendship with the world is adultery with God. John said he that says that he knows God and does not obey Him is a liar and the truth is not in him. It seems clear that what you are saying is simply in disagreement with the Word. What we do, how we live, it does not save us, but it is the fruit of a living relationship with our Father.

What do we do if disobedience is in our lives? First, we feel Godly sorrow. It should break our hearts that we continue to disobey the one we serve and do things that Christ had to die to deliver us from. And then, if we cannot gain the victory, we have to confront the real culprit.....unbelief. God told us that He promises to cause us....yes, cause us, to walk obediently. He tells us our shield of faith will quench ALL the fiery arrows of Satan. He tells us that He will not allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist. There IS real freedom from sinning, and when we believe it, everything changes.

Please understand. I am not preaching sinless perfection. We still must be transformed. Christ's nature must be grown in us. But we do not grow from willful disobedience into holiness a bit at a time. We escape our old nature in a moment by a radical, wonderful act of audacious faith. We do so by agreeing with our God that our fleshly nature died when Christ died. We put it off by faith. We put on our new natures and stand with our shields held high that we not only can obey. We WILL obey. Why? Because the old us is dead.

When that happens, get ready to get excited. Fighting from the point of victory, rather than fighting to get it, makes all the difference in the world.

Blessings,

Gids

Ephesians 2:8,9: no option to say, 'i was saved 50% by my works'.

God allows no boasting. Salvation from start to end is a gift earned by Jesus.

 

[Gideons300]

Ephesians 2:8,9: no option to say, 'i was saved 50% by my works'.

God allows no boasting. Salvation from start to end is a gift earned by Jesus.

Paul also tells us to give all diligence to make our calling and election sure. Is this diligence we are commanded to do a work or simply the proper response to being saved?

There are more than a handful of verses saying IF we respond as directed, we will be saved. IF we endure to the end. IF we walk in the light as He is in the light. We are truly His friends If we do those things He commands us.

I have brought up several things telling us that we must put our roots down into Christ by yielding fully to His Lordship. We are not our own. He bought us. He owns us. Do we think we can somehow recite a magic prayer, continue to live for us and follow our will, resist the leadings and chastenings of the Holy Spirit, and still hear "Well done, thou good and faithful servant"? If so, we are being deceived.

In the parable of the talents, the man that made no gain had what had originally given to him taken away. Whoa. That doesn't sit too well with our picture of God, does it? The master then made his feelings known to us about all who think they are safe with such a rebellious attitude and I pray the words the master then spoke reverberate in our ears. They are found in Luke 17.

"Then bring all those who would not have me to reign over them and slay them before me."

What do we think Jesus meant with this parable? That we can walk in disobedience, live our lives with no desire to obey Him, and still saunter on into heaven regardless? Most balk at the things brought up because to us, they sound like works, and I agree with you. Works cannot save us. But letting God have His way with us is not works but the very definition of salvation. Yielding fully to God is not a work, but what we did to get saved to begin with. It is an exchange. Our pearls for His. Our will for His. But boy, we have been taught differently.

He said that we are His friends IF we do those things He commands us. If we find that after giving our full effort, we cannot do them, let us cry out for God to show us how. I promise, He will. But if, on the other hand, we decide that we WILL not do them, and expect to still see Heaven regardless, we have crossed the line and unless we relent and repent, we will be those shocked on the final day and what we will get will not be Heaven, but weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

God is awaking us all in these last days to rescue us from the lies we have been fed. Some will listen, some will dig in their heels and continue to cling to their verses that make it all ok, and ignore the multitudes of warning God has provided us. How we respond as we come face to face with the full truth will be the determining factor as to who we truly are.... Obedient sheep or rebellion goats. I pray we all bow before Him and cry out for new hearts that long to obey. If we truly want to please Him, and as well find real joy, that is the pathway He offers.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Si_monfaith]

Paul also tells us to give all diligence to make our calling and election sure. Is this diligence we are commanded to do a work or simply the proper response to being saved?

There are more than a handful of verses saying IF we respond as directed, we will be saved. IF we endure to the end. IF we walk in the light as He is in the light. We are truly His friends If we do those things He commands us.

I have brought up several things telling us that we must put our roots down into Christ by yielding fully to His Lordship. We are not our own. He bought us. He owns us. Do we think we can somehow recite a magic prayer, continue to live for us and follow our will, resist the leadings and chastenings of the Holy Spirit, and still hear "Well done, thou good and faithful servant"? If so, we are being deceived.

In the parable of the talents, the man that made no gain had what had originally given to him taken away. Whoa. That doesn't sit too well with our picture of God, does it? The master then made his feelings known to us about all who think they are safe with such a rebellious attitude and I pray the words the master then spoke reverberate in our ears. They are found in Luke 17.

"Then bring all those who would not have me to reign over them and slay them before me."

What do we think Jesus meant with this parable? That we can walk in disobedience, live our lives with no desire to obey Him, and still saunter on into heaven regardless? Most balk at the things brought up because to us, they sound like works, and I agree with you. Works cannot save us. But letting God have His way with us is not works but the very definition of salvation. Yielding fully to God is not a work, but what we did to get saved to begin with. It is an exchange. Our pearls for His. Our will for His. But boy, we have been taught differently.

He said that we are His friends IF we do those things He commands us. If we find that after giving our full effort, we cannot do them, let us cry out for God to show us how. I promise, He will. But if, on the other hand, we decide that we WILL not do them, and expect to still see Heaven regardless, we have crossed the line and unless we relent and repent, we will be those shocked on the final day and what we will get will not be Heaven, but weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

God is awaking us all in these last days to rescue us from the lies we have been fed. Some will listen, some will dig in their heels and continue to cling to their verses that make it all ok, and ignore the multitudes of warning God has provided us. How we respond as we come face to face with the full truth will be the determining factor as to who we truly are.... Obedient sheep or rebellion goats. I pray we all bow before Him and cry out for new hearts that long to obey. If we truly want to please Him, and as well find real joy, that is the pathway He offers.

Blessings,

Gideon

Diligence & responding mean we take what Jesus redeemed on cross what we lost by adam's choice of moral law.

We cannot produce anything. Only Jesus can do that. He has finished doing all on cross. No option for us but to take what he redeemed, earned & produced.

Hope your posts do not dilute Christ-centricity with works-centricity.

 

[Gideons300]

Diligence & responding mean we take what Jesus redeemed on cross what we lost by adam's choice of moral law.

We cannot produce anything. Only Jesus can do that. He has finished doing all on cross. No option for us but to take what he redeemed, earned & produced.

Hope your posts do not dilute Christ-centricity with works-centricity.

One can take what Jesus offers lazily or diligently. There is a vast difference. But there is only one way to obey Him. And if we are not, and do not care, ignoring the Holy Pirit that is given to correct and reprove us because He loves us, then John tells us very clearly that we are liars and the truth is not in us.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Si_monfaith]

One can take what Jesus offers lazily or diligently. There is a vast difference. But there is only one way to obey Him. And if we are not, and do not care, ignoring the Holy Pirit that is given to correct and reprove us because He loves us, then John tells us very clearly that we are liars and the truth is not in us.

Blessings,

Gideon

None can take what Jesus offers without Jesus granting us the desire to take-Phillip2:13.

Billions are in hell for not taking what Jesus offered-john3:18.

So taking is not possible by man's power or wisdom.

Adam was nude & still in God's holy presence. We all wud have been nude if adam had not chosen the kge &still be in God's holy presence.

So relax brother rather than be too legalistic & lose your rest that Jesus restored.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You say that under grace, actions are not seen, yet Paul himself said that he pressed, he kept his body under. He said if we win willfully, there remains no more sacrifice for sin, only a fearful looking for of judgment. Peter told his flock to not be deceived by a gospel that pleasing itching ears. James said friendship with the world is adultery with God. John said he that says that he knows God and does not obey Him is a liar and the truth is not in him. It seems clear that what you are saying is simply in disagreement with the Word. What we do, how we live, it does not save us, but it is the fruit of a living relationship with our Father.

How you keep preaching this false doctrine I do not know.
This verse referred to the Hebrews who had the priesthood that previously did sacrifices for sin. So Paul is telling them that UNDER CHRIST, there is NO MORE sacrifice for sin. ONLY JESUS CHRIST. No priesthood sacrifices.

Ask questions if you do not understand. Also interesting is you paraphrase God's Word into your own words mixing two or three concepts together. This is why I don't come here anymore. People do not upgrade their theology, it stays the same year after year.

Please stop preaching this false gospel, using God's Word out of context and as a sword.

Thank you!

 

[Gideons300]

How you keep preaching this false doctrine I do not know.
This verse referred to the Hebrews who had the priesthood that previously did sacrifices for sin. So Paul is telling them that UNDER CHRIST, there is NO MORE sacrifice for sin. ONLY JESUS CHRIST. No priesthood sacrifices.

Ask questions if you do not understand. Also interesting is you paraphrase God's Word into your own words mixing two or three concepts together. This is why I don't come here anymore. People do not upgrade their theology, it stays the same year after year.

Please stop preaching this false gospel, using God's Word out of context and as a sword.

Thank you!

Sister, am I understanding you correctly that we contend that we can sin willfully after having received Christ and there is no danger to us? Do you realize if every single instance where you have been provided scriptural warnings and exhortations, they are always somehow mean for other people, not us? Why is that?

Let's look at this objectively. If I am in error, well, we all get saved regardless, so the only fallout is that a few deceived souls who listen to my endless chattering on about dangers from willfully sinning actually try to stop, and their joy is reduced temporarily as they try in vain to do so. Of course, in te end, all is well. Joy comes and swallows up our misery, and Heaven is ours!

However, if the position you propose is the one in error, millions are being led astray and it will cost them their souls unless they find repentance and realize that obeying the Lord is the actual scriptural proof of our being saved and that the path they have tread upon for years is gross error and wil lead to hell, not heaven.

As I have shared, each one of us is being led into the valley of decision, where we will have to choose whom we will serve, either God or us. Who will rule? Will we continue to have God as our "co-pilot", which is a polite way of saying we will still make all major decisions based upon what we want, unless of course we get into a real mess and then we temporarily hand over controls to Him until the crisis passes.

Or will we finally see the root of our problem, our shallowness, our lukewarmness, is that we have never come the point we hate US, our rebellion, our pride, our love of us more than others, our love of sin when we feel like it. It is a painful place to come to, but it is necessary And why is brokenness so important? Because it is that mentality that allows faith to ignite in our hearts, so that we can actually believe that Jesus made us new, and that we are not in the flesh any longer, and that we owe it nothing. True liberty. Free indeed.

Why would any child of God fight for the right to continue in sin? Why would we not rather be found on our knees crying out like Paul did for the deliverer to do what He does, deliver us? Will tell you why. Paul saw himself as a wretched man. We in the modern church don't for the most part. We see ourselves as "doctrinally enlightened", and think grace makes repentance a moot point. We see the sacrifice of our master allows us a free pass regardless of the state of our hearts. We as a whole are being led like lambs to the slaughter. Thank God He is awakening us to righteousness and telling us He will free us from its grip if we desire it more than our daily bread. Do we? I pray so.

Blessings to you, dear sister

Gideon

 

[ToBeLoved]

Sister, am I understanding you correctly that we contend that we can sin willfully after having received Christ and there is no danger to us? Do you realize if every single instance where you have been provided scriptural warnings and exhortations, they are always somehow mean for other people, not us? Why is that?

Let's look at this objectively. If I am in error, well, we all get saved regardless, so the only fallout is that a few deceived souls who listen to my endless chattering on about dangers from willfully sinning actually try to stop, and their joy is reduced temporarily as they try in vain to do so. Of course, in te end, all is well. Joy comes and swallows up our misery, and Heaven is ours!

However, if the position you propose is the one in error, millions are being led astray and it will cost them their souls unless they find repentance and realize that obeying the Lord is the actual scriptural proof of our being saved and that the path they have tread upon for years is gross error and wil lead to hell, not heaven.

As I have shared, each one of us is being led into the valley of decision, where we will have to choose whom we will serve, either God or us. Who will rule? Will we continue to have God as our "co-pilot", which is a polite way of saying we will still make all major decisions based upon what we want, unless of course we get into a real mess and then we temporarily hand over controls to Him until the crisis passes.

Or will we finally see the root of our problem, our shallowness, our lukewarmness, is that we have never come the point we hate US, our rebellion, our pride, our love of us more than others, our love of sin when we feel like it. It is a painful place to come to, but it is necessary And why is brokenness so important? Because it is that mentality that allows faith to ignite in our hearts, so that we can actually believe that Jesus made us new, and that we are not in the flesh any longer, and that we owe it nothing. True liberty. Free indeed.

Why would any child of God fight for the right to continue in sin? Why would we not rather be found on our knees crying out like Paul did for the deliverer to do what He does, deliver us? Will tell you why. Paul saw himself as a wretched man. We in the modern church don't for the most part. We see ourselves as "doctrinally enlightened", and think grace makes repentance a moot point. We see the sacrifice of our master allows us a free pass regardless of the state of our hearts. We as a whole are being led like lambs to the slaughter. Thank God He is awakening us to righteousness and telling us He will free us from its grip if we desire it more than our daily bread. Do we? I pray so.

Blessings to you, dear sister

Gideon

No. What I said is that you used that verse out of it's original context. Please explain why you did not address my statement

 

[Gideons300]

No. What I said is that you used that verse out of it's original context. Please explain why you did not address my statement

Sister, read the entire chapter of Hebrews 10. The context is clear. The writer explains the law and that by the grace and mercy of God, He has forgiven us and washed us. He then moves forward to us. He warns that if we win willfully after having received such grace, there remains no more sacrifice for sins. Christ's blood is no longer protecting such a one. We are told that under the old covenant, any who despised the law died if there were two or three witnesses to his sin. He then follows that up with this verse.

"Of how much sorter punishment, suppose he, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden underfoot the son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant,cohere with he was sanctified, an unholy thing and has done despite to the Sporit of Grace?"

I am not sure who has taught you that somehow the writer of Hebrews is not speaking to Christians, as an exhortation to not fall backwards into willful sin. They have taught wrong.

When we choose to willfully sin, we are stepping onto Christ to avail ourselves of the benefit of His shed blood. The thought should make us cringe, should melt us into a heep of weeping and shame. How can we do so, and do it in the name of grace? God is not mocked. He never sent His only begotten son to die so that we could continue on in our rebellion. He offers us a bridge, a way out of such evil.

To think we can go back and visit our fleshly roots any time we want and at the same time use the blood of Christ as our free pass to do so without consequences is abhorrent. Well, it should be. But sadly, we have come to a place where it is not. How has this come about? Simple. Sin hardens hearts, clouds our vision, deceives us in an increasingly darkening manner.

Now, I have answered your question. Would you please answer the one I posed to you? Do you believe we who are saved can willfully sin and grace makes it all ok, and that there are no eternal consequences unless we turn from that sin?

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Si_monfaith]

Sister, am I understanding you correctly that we contend that we can sin willfully after having received Christ and there is no danger to us? Do you realize if every single instance where you have been provided scriptural warnings and exhortations, they are always somehow mean for other people, not us? Why is that?

Let's look at this objectively. If I am in error, well, we all get saved regardless, so the only fallout is that a few deceived souls who listen to my endless chattering on about dangers from willfully sinning actually try to stop, and their joy is reduced temporarily as they try in vain to do so. Of course, in te end, all is well. Joy comes and swallows up our misery, and Heaven is ours!

However, if the position you propose is the one in error, millions are being led astray and it will cost them their souls unless they find repentance and realize that obeying the Lord is the actual scriptural proof of our being saved and that the path they have tread upon for years is gross error and wil lead to hell, not heaven.

As I have shared, each one of us is being led into the valley of decision, where we will have to choose whom we will serve, either God or us. Who will rule? Will we continue to have God as our "co-pilot", which is a polite way of saying we will still make all major decisions based upon what we want, unless of course we get into a real mess and then we temporarily hand over controls to Him until the crisis passes.

Or will we finally see the root of our problem, our shallowness, our lukewarmness, is that we have never come the point we hate US, our rebellion, our pride, our love of us more than others, our love of sin when we feel like it. It is a painful place to come to, but it is necessary And why is brokenness so important? Because it is that mentality that allows faith to ignite in our hearts, so that we can actually believe that Jesus made us new, and that we are not in the flesh any longer, and that we owe it nothing. True liberty. Free indeed.

Why would any child of God fight for the right to continue in sin? Why would we not rather be found on our knees crying out like Paul did for the deliverer to do what He does, deliver us? Will tell you why. Paul saw himself as a wretched man. We in the modern church don't for the most part. We see ourselves as "doctrinally enlightened", and think grace makes repentance a moot point. We see the sacrifice of our master allows us a free pass regardless of the state of our hearts. We as a whole are being led like lambs to the slaughter. Thank God He is awakening us to righteousness and telling us He will free us from its grip if we desire it more than our daily bread. Do we? I pray so.

Blessings to you, dear sister

Gideon

Willful sinning refers to forsaking Jesus & going back to law.
It does not refer to violating the law.

 

[Gideons300]

Willful sinning refers to forsaking Jesus & going back to law.
It does not refer to violating the law.

And what exactly does God mean when he tells us that he that DOETH righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous?

People read that and hear legalism so they must discard it as truth, for if it means what it says, our whole theology is upended. What we do not see, and praise God, what he is awakening us to is the long lost second half of the gospel. And what is that?

It is that when we finally disconnect ourselves from the old man, confessing and believing that Jesus really did put him to death and gave us brand new natures, God then does exactly as he promised to do..... Cause us to walk in righteousness and begin to grow holy fruits in us.

You see, doing righteousness is not keeping us saved. That IS legalism. But doing righteousness is the sign that Jesus is alive in us and growing. When we finally break before God and cry out like Paul did to be delivered from our old rebellious self, we will then find that He is the God that transforms us after we get saved. He indeed DOES cause us to flee sin by holding up our shields of faith, believing Satan has no more hold upon us. That is the power of the man walking in his new nature.

God has said "Open your mouth wide and I will fill it." He is not lying. We are just as yet dis-believing. Ah, but glory to God, change is coming and it is going to be glorious to see a church awake to righteousness, because they awoke to the God who gives us brand new natures.

Thanks for sharing brother. This is a good discussion.

Blessings, Gideon

 

[Si_monfaith]

And what exactly does God mean when he tells us that he that DOETH righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous?

People read that and hear legalism so they must discard it as truth, for if it means what it says, our whole theology is upended. What we do not see, and praise God, what he is awakening us to is the long lost second half of the gospel. And what is that?

It is that when we finally disconnect ourselves from the old man, confessing and believing that Jesus really did put him to death and gave us brand new natures, God then does exactly as he promised to do..... Cause us to walk in righteousness and begin to grow holy fruits in us.

You see, doing righteousness is not keeping us saved. That IS legalism. But doing righteousness is the sign that Jesus is alive in us and growing. When we finally break before God and cry out like Paul did to be delivered from our old rebellious self, we will then find that He is the God that transforms us after we get saved. He indeed DOES cause us to flee sin by holding up our shields of faith, believing Satan has no more hold upon us. That is the power of the man walking in his new nature.

God has said "Open your mouth wide and I will fill it." He is not lying. We are just as yet dis-believing. Ah, but glory to God, change is coming and it is going to be glorious to see a church awake to righteousness, because they awoke to the God who gives us brand new natures.

Thanks for sharing brother. This is a good discussion.

Blessings, Gideon

Doing righteusness means trusting Jesus who alone is our righteousness(1corin1:30,31).
Our works after we are saved are to rejoice in Christ just as adam did works to rejoice in Him before the fall.

 

[Si_monfaith]

And what exactly does God mean when he tells us that he that DOETH righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous?

People read that and hear legalism so they must discard it as truth, for if it means what it says, our whole theology is upended. What we do not see, and praise God, what he is awakening us to is the long lost second half of the gospel. And what is that?

It is that when we finally disconnect ourselves from the old man, confessing and believing that Jesus really did put him to death and gave us brand new natures, God then does exactly as he promised to do..... Cause us to walk in righteousness and begin to grow holy fruits in us.

You see, doing righteousness is not keeping us saved. That IS legalism. But doing righteousness is the sign that Jesus is alive in us and growing. When we finally break before God and cry out like Paul did to be delivered from our old rebellious self, we will then find that He is the God that transforms us after we get saved. He indeed DOES cause us to flee sin by holding up our shields of faith, believing Satan has no more hold upon us. That is the power of the man walking in his new nature.

God has said "Open your mouth wide and I will fill it." He is not lying. We are just as yet dis-believing. Ah, but glory to God, change is coming and it is going to be glorious to see a church awake to righteousness, because they awoke to the God who gives us brand new natures.

Thanks for sharing brother. This is a good discussion.

Blessings, Gideon

If a person trusts in his works, then Lord will say,'do good works' becz it shall be according to his faith.
But if a person trusts in the Lord's works alone to be saved then Lord might say,'do this or that' but that is to help the person to rejoice in Him & not to earn salvation or righteousness.

 

[Si_monfaith]

And what exactly does God mean when he tells us that he that DOETH righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous?

People read that and hear legalism so they must discard it as truth, for if it means what it says, our whole theology is upended. What we do not see, and praise God, what he is awakening us to is the long lost second half of the gospel. And what is that?

It is that when we finally disconnect ourselves from the old man, confessing and believing that Jesus really did put him to death and gave us brand new natures, God then does exactly as he promised to do..... Cause us to walk in righteousness and begin to grow holy fruits in us.

You see, doing righteousness is not keeping us saved. That IS legalism. But doing righteousness is the sign that Jesus is alive in us and growing. When we finally break before God and cry out like Paul did to be delivered from our old rebellious self, we will then find that He is the God that transforms us after we get saved. He indeed DOES cause us to flee sin by holding up our shields of faith, believing Satan has no more hold upon us. That is the power of the man walking in his new nature.

God has said "Open your mouth wide and I will fill it." He is not lying. We are just as yet dis-believing. Ah, but glory to God, change is coming and it is going to be glorious to see a church awake to righteousness, because they awoke to the God who gives us brand new natures.

Thanks for sharing brother. This is a good discussion.

Blessings, Gideon

It is doing works to be justified that leads people to a state where they are unable to receive abundant blessings from God.

 

[Si_monfaith]

And what exactly does God mean when he tells us that he that DOETH righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous?

People read that and hear legalism so they must discard it as truth, for if it means what it says, our whole theology is upended. What we do not see, and praise God, what he is awakening us to is the long lost second half of the gospel. And what is that?

It is that when we finally disconnect ourselves from the old man, confessing and believing that Jesus really did put him to death and gave us brand new natures, God then does exactly as he promised to do..... Cause us to walk in righteousness and begin to grow holy fruits in us.

You see, doing righteousness is not keeping us saved. That IS legalism. But doing righteousness is the sign that Jesus is alive in us and growing. When we finally break before God and cry out like Paul did to be delivered from our old rebellious self, we will then find that He is the God that transforms us after we get saved. He indeed DOES cause us to flee sin by holding up our shields of faith, believing Satan has no more hold upon us. That is the power of the man walking in his new nature.

God has said "Open your mouth wide and I will fill it." He is not lying. We are just as yet dis-believing. Ah, but glory to God, change is coming and it is going to be glorious to see a church awake to righteousness, because they awoke to the God who gives us brand new natures.

Thanks for sharing brother. This is a good discussion.

Blessings, Gideon

If People who believe both in Jesus &their works to be saved, do mortal sins in addition to venial sins, then they will lose their salvation.
This is becz they reject trusting in Jesus alone to be saved.