Has holiness become a dirty word in our churches?

[Farine]

That was a refreshing read.

Thank you

I'm grateful to hear you are refreshed. I pray before typing and certainly before hitting the 'Post Reply' button. I believe that helps.

 

[Farine]

i want to read this in more depth later .. one aspect missing (but i have only kim read it so far) .. mat be the death into christ's death through baptism .. meaning the old nature is already overcome this is what people need to realize .for then they can deal with false excuses they have been taught or given themselves .... --incomplete reply --

Ah, I am keen to read what a deeper focus would grant you. Am patiently waiting.

 

[Farine]

A W Tozer wrote some good books! He ministered in Toronto for some years.

I have been on a mighty quest to learn what I can from those who had the fire breathed on them by God setting all their words ablaze. There are a lot more books yet to read.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Brother, I am more than willing to discuss this topic with you, but to do so we must have dialogue. This is a deep and critically important topic, but you seem determined to talk only about law, nakedness and kge. I mean no disrespect in this. I simply cannot understand where you are coming from and where you are going if when questions are asked of you, you simply sidestep the issue brought up and revert to your trifecta of terms.

How can anyone benefit from what your are sharing if you are not willing to clarify when someone is confused and needs an answer to something they are perhaps mis-understanding?

You asked if I had a nature free from the knowledge of good and evil. I do, absolutely. It is the new nature God has for every single one of His children. I do not deserve it, but nine years ago, in complete and utter brokenness, God broke through. It is not because I was special or more spiritual. Just the opposite. But what was to me a curse, seeing myself as a truly wretched man in the flesh, became a well disguised blessing, for I was sick and needed the Great Physician to make me whole.... and knew it! I had finally arrived at the point that I had NO confidence in the flesh. I KNEW that it would take a miracle, and God gave it to me. It is a hard place to get to, but it is a blessed place when one finally arrives. Why? Because a broken, humbled, desperate man can truly believe. There is simply no other option for him. And praise a God, this blessed state is available to any who will fully yield and simply ask..... and by faith receive it.

Much of what you say, I agree with. What I struggle to understand is whether this is simply a "positional" theology where the actual possession and eventual display of it is manifested for others to see never seems to follow, or if you believe that by holding the position you sharei actually changes our outward behaviors as the seed of a new nature grows to the surface from the initial seed.

That s why I continue to seek your thoughts on the question of a Christian who falls into adultery, refuses to repent, continues in this behavior until death. Is adultery sin for this man? Is sin even possible for a Christian? Do you espouse that because Jesus gave us holy natures, in reality it is impossible for a believer to sin at all?

Answering these clearly would do wonders to help move this conversation along. If you can do so, it would be much appreciated. Either way, be blessed.

Gideon

A person who is set free from kge by the death of Jesus will not think & talk about sin becz it is the kge which supplies the knowledge that an act is sin just as it did to adam & eve.

If there is a worry & fear about sinning, then either it is just a transitional feeling or the person has not yet said,"Jesus, in your death I am dead to the law & the kge it supplies as per romans 7:4. Help me & guide me".

 

[Si_monfaith]

By that standard God is evil for creating the tree that gave us that knowledge is he not? It is not KGE that sets us apart from Him, it is the DECISION that was made to eat of that tree after He forbid it.

By your reasoning, technically God introduced sin (made them aware that there was something they could not do) by telling them not to eat it. Was this all a trick?

If you claim that KGE is what separates us from Him and we can live as we want without KGE then you are making God a liar and a deceiving entity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Choosing kge is to state that one can earn success by conforming to kge & thereby needs no free success that comes by grace. God provided that choice & shows his respect for us.

Second, without kge in the mind, we would not even know what sin is.

Trying to do works to enter heaven while holding on to this kge which brought spiritual & physical death is meaningless. Ask the Lord. He will guide you.

 

[theologyandfishing]

Choosing kge is to state that one can earn success by conforming to kge & thereby needs no free success that comes by grace. God provided that choice & shows his respect for us.

Second, without kge in the mind, we would not even know what sin is.

Trying to do works to enter heaven while holding on to this kge which brought spiritual & physical death is meaningless. Ask the Lord. He will guide you.

Ok, well just answer me this; and I'm really not asking sarcastically or in an offensive manner. I am really trying to understand your take on things. Maybe we are all saying the same thing just differently. Let's be clear and without beating around the bush.

So if I believe in Christ, accept his forgiveness, you know the whole deal. Then 2 years later or however long you want to say I make a lifestyle of committing murder, do I go to heaven if I die?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gideons300]

Ok, well just answer me this; and I'm really not asking sarcastically or in an offensive manner. I am really trying to understand your take on things. Maybe we are all saying the same thing just differently. Let's be clear and without beating around the bush.

So if I believe in Christ, accept his forgiveness, you know the whole deal. Then 2 years later or however long you want to say I make a lifestyle of committing murder, do I go to heaven if I die?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good luck.

 

[Gideons300]

My dear SI, I hope you understand, but because I am the one who opened this post, and because you continue to openly avoid questions asked of you by myself and others to try to understand your position and how it directly correlates to the question put forth in the OP. I would appreciate that you open your own post to put forth your take on things and discontinue posting here.

I think I have been more than patient in trying to politely engage you to clarify your position, but what happens is that the thread veers off its intended course. I hope you understand and honor my request.

I do pray blessings on you and are led by the Spirit into the fullness of His truth.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Si_monfaith]

Ok, well just answer me this; and I'm really not asking sarcastically or in an offensive manner. I am really trying to understand your take on things. Maybe we are all saying the same thing just differently. Let's be clear and without beating around the bush.

So if I believe in Christ, accept his forgiveness, you know the whole deal. Then 2 years later or however long you want to say I make a lifestyle of committing murder, do I go to heaven if I die?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A person corrupted by kge is ruled by sin. Sin prevents people from doing what they desire & makes them do what they do not (rom7:17).

 

[theologyandfishing]

A person corrupted by kge is ruled by sin. Sin prevents people from doing what they desire & makes them do what they do not (rom7:17).

Ok I'm done with this
I am really curious why you don't just answer the question but I feel this is venturing into an unedifying region with a continuos evasion of a simple question.
Gideon thank you for your insight on this topic, I was truly blessed by reading your posts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JCFantasy23]

MOD HAT ON

Please stay on topic

Please remember to stay on topic

Please stay on topic to the original discussion. If you want to discuss something else, please make a new thread.

The full list of site rules can be found here.

Further issues with this thread may result in further cleans, a permanent shut down, and member staff actions.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The following instruction comes to mind.

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still:
and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still:
and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still:
and he that is holy, let him be holy still. (Revelation 22:11)

 

[Alithis]

does he that is Holy .. (seperated unto god ) ,willfully practice that which is sin (unholy)

 

[Si_monfaith]

does he that is Holy .. (seperated unto god ) ,willfully practice that which is sin (unholy)

Holy refers to being apart from kge. God keeps Himself apart in order to show love thru His Son.

Violation is sinning. There is no violation apart from kge.

 

[Si_monfaith]

Ok, well just answer me this; and I'm really not asking sarcastically or in an offensive manner. I am really trying to understand your take on things. Maybe we are all saying the same thing just differently. Let's be clear and without beating around the bush.

So if I believe in Christ, accept his forgiveness, you know the whole deal. Then 2 years later or however long you want to say I make a lifestyle of committing murder, do I go to heaven if I die?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A person is ruled by His grace when accepts grace. Such a person will love others by seeing thru grace - not thru kge.

Seeing thru kge leads people to see the acts of sins of others.

 

[Alithis]

A person is ruled by His grace when accepts grace. Such a person will love others by seeing thru grace - not thru kge.

Seeing thru kge leads people to see the acts of sins of others.

This is all a bit of meaningless double talk and empty doctrines. Grace anf kge !??? .