Happiness in Heaven while Loved Ones Fry in Hell?

[Radrook]

Seems extremely sinister, abysmally inhumane and alien to demand such a thing from humans.

 

[JackRT]

As human beings we are bounded in both time and place. That is to say, we are finite. On the other hand we think of God as completely unbounded. God exists outside of both time and space. God is present everywhere and at all times. That is to say, God is infinite. This is the orthodox theistic understanding of God. To compare the finite to the infinite is beyond our human comprehension. Even to compare a grain of sand to Mount Everest falls far, far, far short. All of this brings up a number of questions in my mind.

The first question being “How is it even possible for a finite creature to offend an infinite God?” Could a grain of sand offend Mount Everest?

The second question being “If it were possible for the finite to offend the infinite, would the infinite punishment of a finite creature be just?” I will attempt to craft an analogy. You are in a park enjoying a picnic lunch when you glance down and notice an ant crawling across your sandwich. You are offended. How do you react? You have a number of options. You could ignore the ant. You could brush the ant away. You could move to a different location. You could kill the ant. You could kill the entire ant colony. You could capture the ant and confine it and proceed to torture it for several weeks until it finally dies. That last option is quite inadequate as a comparison to hell because hell is infinite in duration whereas the ant can only be tortured for a finite length of time.

To me the concept of hell flies in the face of any concept of a just and compassionate God. Hell would seem to be an entirely human invention based on a vindictive concept of retributatory justice. Perhaps we have the wrong idea of hell. Perhaps we have the wrong idea of justice. Perhaps we have the wrong idea of God. I completely reject the concept of hell as it is traditionally understood in most Christian churches.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Seems extremely sinister, abysmally inhumane and alien to demand such a thing from humans.

It's not demanded.
Everyone is free to fry - they don't even have to do anything, just remain as they are !

 

[VanillaSunflowers]

Seems extremely sinister, abysmally inhumane and alien to demand such a thing from humans.

Did you know you can edit the thread title for that typo? I found that out when I did a typo on one of mine. Makes it easier to read as a makes sense title rather than the first thing that catches attention is the bad spelling. I hate it when I do that.

What does the holy spirit tell you? You are a Christian. That means you're lead by the word.

 

[Radrook]

Did you know you can edit the thread title for that typo? I found that out when I did a typo on one of mine. Makes it easier to read as a makes sense title rather than the first thing that catches attention is the bad spelling. I hate it when I do that.

What does the holy spirit tell you? You are a Christian. That means you're lead by the word.

How do I edit it?

 

[Radrook]

It's not demanded.
Everyone is free to fry - they don't even have to do anything, just remain as they are !

That's like placing a gun at someone's head and claiming that they follow me of their own free will.

 

[Radrook]

Did you know you can edit the thread title for that typo? I found that out when I did a typo on one of mine. Makes it easier to read as a makes sense title rather than the first thing that catches attention is the bad spelling. I hate it when I do that.

What does the holy spirit tell you? You are a Christian. That means you're lead by the word.

Both common sense and the holy spirit tell me that such a concept isn't of a righteous God.

 

[Radrook]

As human beings we are bounded in both time and place. That is to say, we are finite. On the other hand we think of God as completely unbounded. God exists outside of both time and space. God is present everywhere and at all times. That is to say, God is infinite. This is the orthodox theistic understanding of God. To compare the finite to the infinite is beyond our human comprehension. Even to compare a grain of sand to Mount Everest falls far, far, far short. All of this brings up a number of questions in my mind.

The first question being “How is it even possible for a finite creature to offend an infinite God?” Could a grain of sand offend Mount Everest?

The second question being “If it were possible for the finite to offend the infinite, would the infinite punishment of a finite creature be just?” I will attempt to craft an analogy. You are in a park enjoying a picnic lunch when you glance down and notice an ant crawling across your sandwich. You are offended. How do you react? You have a number of options. You could ignore the ant. You could brush the ant away. You could move to a different location. You could kill the ant. You could kill the entire ant colony. You could capture the ant and confine it and proceed to torture it for several weeks until it finally dies. That last option is quite inadequate as a comparison to hell because hell is infinite in duration whereas the ant can only be tortured for a finite length of time.

To me the concept of hell flies in the face of any concept of a just and compassionate God. Hell would seem to be an entirely human invention based on a vindictive concept of retributory justice. Perhaps we have the wrong idea of hell. Perhaps we have the wrong idea of justice. Perhaps we have the wrong idea of God. I completely reject the concept of hell as it is traditionally understood in most Christian churches.

Your viewpoint is the right one and I am in total agreement. What really amazes me is that people who claim to love righteousness insist that torturing someone forever is a righteous thing to do. Are they serious or is this some kind of perverse joke?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

That's like placing a gun at someone's head and claiming that they follow me of their own free will.

It's more like someone already with the NOOSE AROUND THEIR NECK AT THE GALLOWS, A MOMENT FROM BEING HUNG BY THE NECK UNTIL THEY ARE DEAD,

and someone innocent of any crime, blameless in every way,
stepping forward and offering to take their place.

Surprisingly, MOST PEOPLE ON EARTH go ahead and die themselves instead of letting someone else die in their place.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

(a) Both common sense and
(b)the holy spirit tell me
that such a concept isn't of a (c)righteous God.

(a)
(b)
(c)
Any reality ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Your viewpoint is the right one and I am in total agreement. What really amazes me is that people who claim to love righteousness insist that torturing someone forever is a righteous thing to do. Are they serious or is this some kind of perverse joke?

Ask them 3.141592653979 million years after they start to be tortured.

 

[Radrook]

(a)
(b)
(c)
Any reality ?

Too cryptic for me to understand.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Both
(a) common sense and
(b) the holy spirit tell me that such a (d) concept isn't of a
(c) righteous God.

(a) (b) (c) and added (d) (for clarity if pursued; see below)
The whole world talks of these things without a clue about any of them....

Most of this forum included.

So, just looking to see if you "have a clue" .....

(perhaps add (d)) but no reply is needed actually..... just 'fishing' to see if there is a difference(from the world; i.e. "set apart"/ holy) worth posting and what it is if any).

 

[CodyFaith]

.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So if you truly love your family, they will be with you in paradise.

Backlash ? You expect ?
Because you already know you spoke rashly and in error and contrary to God ?

 

[miknik5]

Seems extremely sinister, abysmally inhumane and alien to demand such a thing from humans.

I'm not sure that's the case

 

[Der Alte]

Seems extremely sinister, abysmally inhumane and alien to demand such a thing from humans.

If it is true that people will be happy in heaven while their loved ones are punished in hell, and someone does not like it, will arguing about it here change anything?
.....Was Lot happy when his future sons-in-law were burned to death in Sodom?
.....Note this passage from Jeremiah. God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense.
.....God’s will, expressly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, all of Israel and all of Judah to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist. It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
.....God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”

Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
· · ·
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Note, verse 14, God said He will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.

 

[miknik5]

Someone please expound HE is able to keep what we have entrusted to HIM for the day

Or. What we bind on earth is bound in Heaven. And what we lose on earth is losed in heaven

 

[miknik5]

Was Job's children saved through his prayers?

 

[Radrook]

If it is true that people will be happy in heaven while their loved ones are punished in hell, and someone does not like it, will arguing about it here change anything?
.....Was Lot happy when his future sons-in-law were burned to death in Sodom?
.....Note this passage from Jeremiah. God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense.
.....God’s will, expressly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, all of Israel and all of Judah to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist. It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
.....God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”

Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
· · ·
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.​

Note, verse 14, God said He will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them.

Please note that a Christian's responsibility is to respond to the dissemination of any type of Satanic propaganda which is designed to besmirch or defame God's character. The accusation that God instituted eternal torment as punishment falls under that category.

If a Christian remains silent whenever his heavenly Father is defamed, then he is going contrary to Jesus' command that we preach and teach truth to others so they too can come to the full and accurate knowledge of God and his personality. In fact, such silence can very well be understood as a tacit agreement.

So yes, how a Christian responds to Devil inspired utterances does make difference because it either encourages it or discourages it, increases its convincing power, or diminishes its convincing power. As the Bible tells us, we cannot serve both God and Belial, we either serve one or the other. And again, he who doesn't gather scatters. So in this issue of the vindication of God's personality there is no middle ground.

The happiness of Lot when Sodom was DESTROYED can't be compared with a happiness of a person who knows that his loved ones are being eternally tortured. So that is a glaringly false analogy.