Haplogroup J1c3 (Y-DNA)

[Jazer]

I get asked for this again and again. The J1c3 Haplogroup was renamed on February 2010. This is closely associated with the spread of the Semitic language. The origin of J1c3 is likely to have been in "a geographical zone, including northeast Syria, northern Iraq and eastern Turkey" Notice the P58 is a neolithic period mutation, not a pre neolithic. Science would pin it down to 6000 years ago. Just exactly when the Bible said Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden in this same geographical zone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Victar/Haplogroup_J1c3_(Y-DNA)

The P58 marker which defines subgroup J1c3 was first identified by Karafet et al. in 2008.[2]

"In human genetics, Haplogroup J1c3 (P58) is a Y-chromosome haplogroup which is a subdivision of haplogroup J1c. It was known as J1e until February 2010, when a number of mutations were discovered in the J1 tree that made a change in nomenclature necessary."

"A 2009 study concluded that the haplogroup had a more Northern origin than previously thought. According to this article, the origin of J1c3 is likely to have been in "a geographical zone, including northeast Syria, northern Iraq and eastern Turkey", spreading southward and towards the Mediterranean. Moreover, the network analysis of J1c3 haplotypes shows that some of the populations with low diversity, such as Bedouins from Israel, Qatar, Sudan and UAE, are tightly clustered near high-frequency haplotypes suggesting founder effects with "star burst" expansion in the Arabian Desert.[1] The overall conclusion of the study was that that J1c3 spread with pastoral nomads who would migrate based on rainfall patterns from the Zagros and Taurus mountains to the Levant, with the first such migrations occurring during the neolithic period."

"The expansion of Haplogroup J1c3d is closely tied to the expansion of the Semitic languages, they themselves both linked to the expansion of herder–hunters moving into the arid regions of the Arabian Peninsula.[1], which is both consistent with J1c3d's age estimate and its parent clade's place of highest diversity."

 

[Phred]

I get asked for this again and again. The J1c3 Haplogroup was renamed on February 2010. This is closely associated with the spread of the Semitic language. The origin of J1c3 is likely to have been in "a geographical zone, including northeast Syria, northern Iraq and eastern Turkey" Notice the P58 is a neolithic period mutation, not a pre neolithic. Science would pin it down to 6000 years ago. Just exactly when the Bible said Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Victar/Haplogroup_J1c3_(Y-DNA)

Let's be clear, shall we? First off, "neolithic". New findings put the beginning of the Neolithic culture back to around 10,700 to 9400 BCE. Until those findings are adopted within the archaeological community, the beginning of the Neolithic culture is considered to be in the Levant (modern-day West Bank) about 9500 BCE. That's 12,700 - 11,500 years ago. Or about 5,000 years BEFORE your supposed "garden of eden" existed.

Not to mention the tons of evidence of cultures that existed BEFORE the neolithic. Thus before the world was even created in your imagination.

"In human genetics, Haplogroup J1c3 (P58) is a Y-chromosome haplogroup which is a subdivision of haplogroup J1c. It was known as J1e until February 2010, when a number of mutations were discovered in the J1 tree that made a change in nomenclature necessary."

"A 2009 study concluded that the haplogroup had a more Northern origin than previously thought. According to this article, the origin of J1c3 is likely to have been in "a geographical zone, including northeast Syria, northern Iraq and eastern Turkey", spreading southward and towards the Mediterranean. Moreover, the network analysis of J1c3 haplotypes shows that some of the populations with low diversity, such as Bedouins from Israel, Qatar, Sudan and UAE, are tightly clustered near high-frequency haplotypes suggesting founder effects with "star burst" expansion in the Arabian Desert.[1] The overall conclusion of the study was that that J1c3 spread with pastoral nomads who would migrate based on rainfall patterns from the Zagros and Taurus mountains to the Levant, with the first such migrations occurring during the neolithic period."

"The expansion of Haplogroup J1c3d is closely tied to the expansion of the Semitic languages, they themselves both linked to the expansion of herder–hunters moving into the arid regions of the Arabian Peninsula.[1], which is both consistent with J1c3d's age estimate and its parent clade's place of highest diversity."

Let's look at this, shall we? "with the first such migrations occurring during the neolithic period." That means that numbers of people were migrating. Not one or two. But enough to spread their genes in a fashion that would impact populations. Adam and Eve wouldn't have been able to do this by themselves. This is evidence AGAINST creationism, not for. Further:

The frequency of Haplogroup J1c3 collapses suddenly at the borders of Arabic speaking countries [citation needed] with mainly non-Arabic speaking countries, such as Iran (10.40%)[10] and Turkey (9%).[11] The distribution of J1 outside of the Middle East is associated with the Semites who traded and conquered in Sicily, southern Italy, Spain and Pakistan. It is also seen in the Black sea region of Turkey as well as in Dagestan, Russia in the Caucasus.[1] In a study of 259 men of minorities from Iran and Azerbaijan (Roewer2009), 17-marker STR haplotypes resembling those typical for J1c3 were found in Iranian Arabs at 23.9%, and 10.9% in nearby Bakhtiaris. North Talysh (now part of Azerbaijan) had an incidence of 16.3. 11.1% in South Talysh, 7.0% in Gilaki and 4.4% in Mazandarani.[6]

This wouldn't happen in a society where language was decided later at the tower of Babel. Genes would have freely mixed and then spread all over AFTER the incident at the tower. Again, evidence AGAINST the Bible.

 

[Loudmouth]

The origin of J1c3 is likely to have been in "a geographical zone, including northeast Syria, northern Iraq and eastern Turkey"

It would have also occurred in a single male who had at least 1 or 2 sons. Who do you think those sons had children with? Their sisters?

 

[Jazer]

Let's be clear, shall we? First off, "neolithic". New findings put the beginning of the Neolithic culture back to around 10,700 to 9400 BCE. Until those findings are adopted within the archaeological community, the beginning of the Neolithic culture is considered to be in the Levant (modern-day West Bank) about 9500 BCE. That's 12,700 - 11,500 years ago. Or about 5,000 years BEFORE your supposed "garden of eden" existed.

As I have already said, according to science Adam had parents. J2B3 was exactly the right time for the Garden of Eden.

Not to mention the tons of evidence of cultures that existed BEFORE the neolithic. Thus before the world was even created in your imagination.

I only study the last 14,000 years of history. Because that is as far as the Bible goes. I look at it pre neolithic history, but the Bible does not have any recorded pre neolithic history.

Let's look at this, shall we? "with the first such migrations occurring during the neolithic period." That means that numbers of people were migrating. Not one or two.

Yep according to Science Adam and Eve were not the only people alive back then. In fact According to Bryan Sykes there were 7 Eves in Europe alone. The Hebrew Eve in the Bible is only the most recent. Even the Bible tells us there were other people because their son Cain was worried someone was going to kill him. It was a scary place out there in the big world outside of the protection of Eden.

Genesis 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, [that] every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Genesis 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Genesis 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain,

This is evidence AGAINST creationism, not for. Further

I am only showing that the Bible is true. The only creationism I try to support is GAP and there is no conflict.

This wouldn't happen in a society where language was decided later at the tower of Babel. Genes would have freely mixed and then spread all over AFTER the incident at the tower. Again, evidence AGAINST the Bible.

You mean the tower of Bable? Some of those towers are still there in Iraq. In fact they tried to rebuild Babylon but the Bible says no one will ever live there again. It has been a while sense I studied up on language. There are different theorys about that. But when you have a common ancestor and a lot of different people that speak a lot of different languages then that would show the Bible is true. Usually people with a common ancestor speak the same language, that does not seem to be the case here.

 

[Jazer]

It would have also occurred in a single male who had at least 1 or 2 sons. Who do you think those sons had children with? Their sisters?

Cain killed Able, Cain had children with a women from the land of Nod. We do not know who Seth married. We do know that after Seth Adam & Eve had more sons and daughters. We know that God created Eve from Adams rib. Which according to science the bone marrow is exactly where you would go in a man to get the DNA to create a women.

5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

 

[Loudmouth]

Cain killed Able, Cain had children with a women from the land of Nod. We do not know who Seth married. We do know that after Seth Adam & Eve had more sons and daughters. We know that God created Eve from Adams rib. Which according to science the bone marrow is exactly where you would go in a man to get the DNA to create a women.

5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

We do not know any of the things you speak of. You believe them, but believing is quite different than knowing. You do understand the difference, don't you?

Also, the genomic variation in these populations could not come from a single pair in the last 10,000 years. The DRB1 alleles are a perfect example. Semitic populations share DRB1 alleles with other populations from around the globe. Therefore, the male in which the Y mutation happened in was one of many males around at the time. The way in which this male became the most recent common ancestor was due to the extinction of other Y chromosome lineages, even though the DNA from those male ancestors lives on in the population as shown by the DRB1 alleles.

 

[Jazer]

Also, the genomic variation in these populations could not come from a single pair in the last 10,000 years.

Bryan Sykes says there were 7 Eves in Europe along. Eve in the Bible was just one of many Eves according to Science. You do study science don't you? Do you know anything at all about population genetics? It is just a fact that Jewish, Hebrew people exist. Hitler tried to destroy them, but some of them survived. You denyal that the Hebrew nation of Isreal exists is just another entry on a long list of things you deny. I am beginning to wonder if you can function at all in the real world when you live at the level of denial that you live at.

 

[Jazer]

So do you think that none of the 3500 people we read about in the Bible existed?

 

[Naraoia]

Which according to science the bone marrow is exactly where you would go in a man to get the DNA to create a women.

Huh? Why exactly?

 

[Loudmouth]

So do you think that none of the 3500 people we read about in the Bible existed?

Do you think the other hundreds of thousands of people who lived in the region at the time did not exist? If your geneology is correct, then there should only be 4 DRB1 alleles. There aren't. There are hundreds.

 

[Loudmouth]

Bryan Sykes says there were 7 Eves in Europe along. Eve in the Bible was just one of many Eves according to Science.

And each Eve was one of many women within each population. That is the part you keep ignoring.

 

[SkyWriting]

Or about 5,000 years BEFORE your supposed "garden of Eden" existed.

The scientific method has no way to prove any historical events.
Steps of the Scientific Method

It can only predict future outcomes.

There is no date on the Garden story or reference point of any kind.

 

[Nostromo]

Then science cannot determine anything, as all observations occur in the past with respect to the observer.

 

[Incariol]

Then science cannot determine anything, as all observations occur in the past with respect to the observer.

The world was created last Thursday.

Omphalos hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MoonLancer]

The scientific method has no way to prove any historical events.
Steps of the Scientific Method

It can only predict future outcomes.

There is no date on the Garden story or reference point of any kind.

So your argument is that scientists are wrong about science?

 

[Jazer]

Huh? Why exactly?

I do not know why God created Eve that way. But this book is 3500 years old. NOW Science well tell you that the best place to get the DNA is from the bone marrow. How did Moses know 3500 years ago what Science is just now starting to figure out?

 

[Incariol]

I do not know why God created Eve that way. But this book is 3500 years old. NOW Science well tell you that the best place to get the DNA is from the bone marrow. How did Moses know 3500 years ago what Science is just now starting to figure out?

The Bible states that the best place to get a sample for Deoxyribonucleic acid extraction is bone marrow? You think it really says that?

 

[Blayz]

I get asked for this again and again.

By who, where, and in what context. Could you provide some evidence, perhaps in the form of a quoted post, that shows anyone has ever asked you for this even once?

 

[Jazer]

The Bible states that the best place to get a sample for Deoxyribonucleic acid extraction is bone marrow? You think it really says that?

The Bible says that God took Adams Rib and made Eve. I said that science confirms this is true. Science again and again confirms the truth in the Bible.

Gen 2 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken
out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

HSCs are found in the bone marrow of adults, which includes femurs, hip, ribs, sternum, and other bones.

Stem cell therapies are not new. Doctors have been performing bone marrow stem cell transplants for decades. But when scientists learned how to remove stem cells from human embryos in 1998, both excitement and controversy ensued.

The excitement was due to the huge potential these cells have in curing human disease. The controversy centered on the moral implications of destroying human embryos. Political leaders began to debate over how to regulate and fund research involving human embryonic stem (hES) cells.

New breakthroughs may soon bring this debate to an end. Scientists have larned how to stimulate a patient's own cells to behave like embryonic stem cells. These so-called induced pluripotent stem (iPS) cells are reducing the need for human embryos in research and opening up exciting new possibilities for stem cell therapies.

The Stem Cell Debate: Is It Over?

 

[Incariol]

The Bible says that God took Adams Rib and made Eve. I said that science confirms this is true. Science again and again confirms the truth in the Bible.

Science confirms that a divine being supernaturally removed a rib from Adam and created a woman through some sort of transmogrification?

Citation please.

Gen 2 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken
out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

*claps hands*

Goody! A Bible verse! That isn't a scientific study.

HSCs are found in the bone marrow of adults, which includes femurs, hip, ribs, sternum, and other bones.

Stem cell therapies are not new. Doctors have been performing bone marrow stem cell transplants for decades. But when scientists learned how to remove stem cells from human embryos in 1998, both excitement and controversy ensued.

The excitement was due to the huge potential these cells have in curing human disease. The controversy centered on the moral implications of destroying human embryos. Political leaders began to debate over how to regulate and fund research involving human embryonic stem (hES) cells.

New breakthroughs may soon bring this debate to an end. Scientists have larned how to stimulate a patient's own cells to behave like embryonic stem cells. These so-called induced pluripotent stem (iPS) cells are reducing the need for human embryos in research and opening up exciting new possibilities for stem cell therapies.

The Stem Cell Debate: Is It Over?

...What in heck is the relevance of that?