Grace: How does it apply to this?

Inthesafeplace

Active Member
Jun 20, 2015
73
29
✟7,859.00
Marital Status
Single
Maybe this should be in the advice area. Maybe not. I just need a better understanding of how exactly grace applies to us and how it should effect us and what exactly does it mean when God says He's pleased with us.

This is why: I've noticed I exercise my spiritual gifts, read my bible, and do other Christian stuff to seek/gain affection or approval from God or others. I know I can't gain affection or approval from God. I know it's impossible to please God without faith in Jesus and his sacrifice on the cross. Evey good and perfect gift we have comes from God and is because of His generosity and graciousness. A gift can't be earned.
If God is pleased with me, then I don't have to try to gain His approval or affection. Then, my motivation for do Christian stuff and to use the gifts God has given me must change. But to what? I know grace is not an excuse to neglect stuff and I feel that accepting that God is pleased with me would make me neglect spiritual responsibilities (which I did with the unconcious intent to gain approval/affection). How should I see reading the bible, using my gifts, praying, fasting, church (in regards to my relationship to God) when none of these things can get me God's approval/affection? How am I supposed to look at getting closer to God, because I feel I would look at it as gaining enough brownie points to go to the next level?

I was actually scared to post this in the debate section. Please be compassionate and gentle. This isn't the ramblings of someone who wants to get the doctrine right. It isn't the question of a prideful person looking for an excuse to sin and neglect spiritual needs (which is exactly why I posted, to make sure this wouldn't be the case). This isn't coming from a selfish "what about me" person (at least don't look at it that way). This is coming from a person who needs to understand its application.
Because if God is pleased with me in the way that I think He is, then I can stop thinking I'm such a mess and I can stop with my self pity. If God is pleased with me, than I might even be able to stop being jealous of other believers who seem to get more attention. If it's true, than if God had a wallet I wouldn't have to fight to get my picture in it. If God is pleased with me than I can stop thinking of a relationship with God as a competition with other believers. If God is pleased with me, then I can rest and stop striving. It means I can become who God created me to be without self-effort and that maybe even trusting God would be easier.
Please, I feel like a bruised reed. Don't break me.
 

Winepress777

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2015
497
145
68
✟8,905.00
Faith
Christian
You have a tender heart. He will take care of you. Call on His Name. It is Jesus. When you have a personal relationship with Jesus, you will grow to say His Name a lot, and know that He is the answer to every possible scenario, and loved us first, before we did anything. Just have Faith in Jesus. Call on His Name :) You'll find things begin to move and shake in your world then :)
 
Upvote 0

jacks

Er Victus
Supporter
Jun 29, 2010
3,790
3,035
Northwest US
✟665,851.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I believe earnestly striving to become closer to our Lord, is what pleases Him most. Christ loves us and gave Himself for us, we can rest assured He is patient and pleased with those who depend on Him and thank Him in all situations. God Bless.
 
Upvote 0

ALoveDivine

Saved By Grace
Jun 25, 2010
972
228
Detroit, MI
✟11,327.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Think of it this way. God's plan for us is that we would become conformed to the image of his Son, to become partakers of the divine nature. Salvation is a journey from that first moment of reconciliation with God through repentance and baptism all the way through to Christ-likeness. Most won't attain that in this life, but its the direction of your life that matters.

God gives us grace to grow in holiness, and by freely accepting this grace in our lives, we come to share in the divine life of God and become more conformed to the image of Christ. So the Christian life is not a matter of gaining God's approval, but rather coming to share in his very life and nature. Theosis, union with God, is the essence of the Christian pilgrimage.
 
Upvote 0

Open Heart

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2014
18,521
4,393
62
Southern California
✟49,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
Maybe this should be in the advice area. Maybe not. I just need a better understanding of how exactly grace applies to us and how it should effect us and what exactly does it mean when God says He's pleased with us.
I'm glad you are asking. Obviously you don't have peace. After reading your summary, there are areas of concern for me. I am praying to God will use me to help give you some comfort.

This is why: I've noticed I exercise my spiritual gifts, read my bible, and do other Christian stuff to seek/gain affection or approval from God or others.
We all have multiple motivations. Some are loving, some are selfish. In the end, you can't go on your feelings. You have to decide which of the motivations you will own. The rest are then reduced to the status of temptation. Let's say I send my mother some flowers. Part of me wants to make her happy. Part of me wants her to love me, and that's okay too--it's just a human need. But part of me wants to kiss up to her so she'll lend me money for a new car. I choose to own the first motivation, and I let go of the third motivation. If it plagues me, I tell it to go to the devil. But I'm not going to stew about it or waste my time with belly button gazing. Instead, I'm going to send my mom the flowers and get on with life. This skill gets a lot easier with practice.

I know I can't gain affection or approval from God.
This is where my heart broke for you. Who told you that you can't gain affection or approval from God?
I know it's impossible to please God without faith in Jesus and his sacrifice on the cross.
I know you have been taught that, and they have done you a disservice. God is pleased with every act of love, because He is the source of all love. It doesn't matter who is doing the loving, whether they have their beliefs checked off or not.
Evey good and perfect gift we have comes from God and is because of His generosity and graciousness. A gift can't be earned.
It has nothing to do with earning. I do loving things because they are intrinsically wonderful, not to "get" anything else. I don't even do good things to get God's attention or in order to get into heaven. I just do them because they are good. And that's exactly the sort of thing that is pleasing to God.
If God is pleased with me, then I don't have to try to gain His approval or affection.
You are creating a false dilemma. Reality is more intertwined than what you have made it out to be. God is like our Father, wouldn't you agree? I don't know if you had a good father, not everyone does. But a good father simultaneously always loves his children, and can still be pleased or displeased with their behavior. I'm highlighting this part, because I think that somehow your God is a bad Father, and you need to get to know the real loving Father a lot better.
How should I see reading the bible, using my gifts, praying, fasting, church (in regards to my relationship to God) when none of these things can get me God's approval/affection? How am I supposed to look at getting closer to God, because I feel I would look at it as gaining enough brownie points to go to the next level?
Hopefully after reading my responses, you can feel assured that God will indeed be pleased with your Christian actions. If you start to feel like you are switching to the other problem of having manipulative motivations, just pause and say this prayer:
God, help me resist the temptation to do this for the wrong reasons. Rather, with Thy loving help, I choose to do these things only because they are right and good and true and beautiful and pleasing unto Thee.

Remember, he is your Father, so it is natural for you to want his approval. And also, children get a special joy from making their father happy.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Steeno7

Not I...but Christ
Jan 22, 2014
4,446
561
ONUG
✟22,549.00
Faith
Christian
Maybe this should be in the advice area. Maybe not. I just need a better understanding of how exactly grace applies to us and how it should effect us and what exactly does it mean when God says He's pleased with us.

God the Father is pleased with God the Son, "this is MY SON, with whom I AM well pleased". The Father delights to honor His Son. It is only the life of the indwelling Lord Jesus, His activity, in us and through us, that ultimately finds the approval of God.
 
Upvote 0

Wordkeeper

Newbie
Oct 1, 2013
4,285
477
✟83,580.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The concept of faith and grace is based on the patron client model.


http://www.tektonics.org/whatis/whatfaith.php


Quote

Second, note that in very few cases is this form of pistis, as meaning a proof, in view. The meaning does give us a clue as to the nature of other meanings. It is often used as a noun to refer to the Christian "faith" as a set of convictions. In far many more cases the meaning intended is in the sense of faithfulness, or loyalty as owed to one in whom one is embedded for service (in this case, the body of Christ).This now leads to an expansion of the pistis concept as derived from deSilva. As deSilva shows, the relationship between the believer and God is framed in terms of an ancient client-patron relationship. As God's "clients" to whom he has shown unmerited favor (grace), our response should be, as Malina and Neyrey frame it, a "constant awareness" of prescribed duties toward those in whom we are indebted (God) and the group in which we are embedded (God's kin group, the body of Christ).This "constant awareness" is the expression of our faithfulness of loyalty -- in other words, this is our pistis, or faith. "Faith" is not a feeling, but our pledge to trust and be reliable servants to our patron (God), who has provided us with tangible gifts (Christ) and proof thereby of His own reliability.


Imagine a powerful king on the march, determined to bring peace and order to the nations in his region. He was patient, hoping that those nations would mature and establish their own peace and order. Now he cannot wait and cannot tolerate the lawlessness anymore. He is set on doing the job himself. He chooses a nation to help him in his work. His choice is based on grace, his favor, not because the nation was powerful, or clever or rich. In fact, quite the opposite. It was weak, and stubborn and poor.


When the nation failed to respond correctly (it had to accept the king's uniform and it had to agree the king's vision was good and right) and responded badly ( it would not accept the king's uniform, but tried to have a uniform of its own and it did not agree the king's vision but was led astray by the same vision that the lawless nations chased God made His plan more inclusive.


The king now made his grace, his favor available to all the nations, and even this was a gift, not deserved, for they were no better than the first born, the first nation. All were unrighteous, there was no nation deserving of his favour, not one. If they had been, it would not have been a gift but a wage, an earned reward.


This is a common motif in the Jewish narrative. The first born always fails, it is the second son who is always obedient. The first son says he will obey, but it is only lip service. The second son is rebellious, does not agree to work, but does the work anyway. Adam is the first son, but it is the second Adam who succeeds in completing the work. Israel disbelieve and refuses to enter the promised land, it is Yeshua, and Caleb, a Gentile, who lead God's people into the Promised land. The first born's weeping is useless, God says they will never enter His rest. They can never be turned to repentance again.


Which is the cut off point being which repentance is useless. We must understand that the disobedience that was reckoned as unrepairable was the last In a series of rebellions. Moreover, they disobeyed even when they had been been convinced , shown proof that God was a victorious God. After tasting of the fruits of the Holy Spirit, there now remained no more room for repentance.

Let's not forget that the Pharisees had seen as much miraculous signs as the Children of Israel in Egypt. Yet they refused to repent, turn from depending on help from the world and their own strength to achieve useless perishable treasure.


Are you in the same situation?


Have you fully understood the gospel?


Have you found the treasures of this world superficial, temporary?


Have you found dependence on the world and your own strength foolish?


Do you agree that the real treasure is substantive, permanent, eternal, valued both in this world and the world to come?


Do you agree that God has made this treasure accessible because of the work of Jesus on the cross?


Do you agree that this treasure is inherited by showing loyalty through public confession, and remaining loyal by obeying God when He calls you to respond to acts which he has empowered you to do and is within your capabilities?


Are you filled with remorse when you fall occasionally and it leads you to focus on your willpower and strength, and even more remorse when you realize that it is God who fights for you, that you only have to stay still, that when you agree with God that the habit which you retained because you could not give it up and is the habit God calls a sin, that He then cleanses you of that sin?


Do you agree that to keep you from becoming proud, God will retain some thorn in your side, because He does not desire sacrifice, but only obedience, that he values not your performance but your loyalty, and that His favor, your position in His good books, His grace, is sufficient for you?


If you agree to the above, there is no need to worry anymore.. In fact, God will change you and give you tangible proof of your compliant status.


1 John 3:14If we love our Christian brothers and sisters, it proves that we have passed from death to life.
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
28,362
7,742
Canada
✟721,286.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
Maybe this should be in the advice area. Maybe not. I just need a better understanding of how exactly grace applies to us and how it should effect us and what exactly does it mean when God says He's pleased with us.

This is why: I've noticed I exercise my spiritual gifts, read my bible, and do other Christian stuff to seek/gain affection or approval from God or others. I know I can't gain affection or approval from God. I know it's impossible to please God without faith in Jesus and his sacrifice on the cross. Evey good and perfect gift we have comes from God and is because of His generosity and graciousness. A gift can't be earned.
If God is pleased with me, then I don't have to try to gain His approval or affection. Then, my motivation for do Christian stuff and to use the gifts God has given me must change. But to what? I know grace is not an excuse to neglect stuff and I feel that accepting that God is pleased with me would make me neglect spiritual responsibilities (which I did with the unconcious intent to gain approval/affection). How should I see reading the bible, using my gifts, praying, fasting, church (in regards to my relationship to God) when none of these things can get me God's approval/affection? How am I supposed to look at getting closer to God, because I feel I would look at it as gaining enough brownie points to go to the next level?

I was actually scared to post this in the debate section. Please be compassionate and gentle. This isn't the ramblings of someone who wants to get the doctrine right. It isn't the question of a prideful person looking for an excuse to sin and neglect spiritual needs (which is exactly why I posted, to make sure this wouldn't be the case). This isn't coming from a selfish "what about me" person (at least don't look at it that way). This is coming from a person who needs to understand its application.
Because if God is pleased with me in the way that I think He is, then I can stop thinking I'm such a mess and I can stop with my self pity. If God is pleased with me, than I might even be able to stop being jealous of other believers who seem to get more attention. If it's true, than if God had a wallet I wouldn't have to fight to get my picture in it. If God is pleased with me than I can stop thinking of a relationship with God as a competition with other believers. If God is pleased with me, then I can rest and stop striving. It means I can become who God created me to be without self-effort and that maybe even trusting God would be easier.
Please, I feel like a bruised reed. Don't break me.

1 John 4
15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

I noticed in your post a lot of insecurity, your perception that God does not accept you or that you are not good enough comes from somewhere deep inside your heart, i noticed this because i've been there myself. What eventually helped me was to trust that God is love and embody what the bible says this love is, over time and growth the fear was replaced with the love of God. I still have my moments of being "not love" but God's love covers that over.

There is no quick fix, but God has you in his hand, and no one can pluck you out of it.

As you grow in the love of God, the way you see things will change, give yourself time, be patient also with yourself.

1 Corinthians 13
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails.

Matthew 5
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Matthew 22
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Practice self love, receive the love of God, in the mindset of love being "worthy" isn't even a thought. As a child would, simply receive the love of God.

When you love others as you love yourself, it will come from a genuine love amplified by understanding what God loves about you, that being "you."
 
Upvote 0

Tangible

Decision Theology = Ex Opere Operato
May 29, 2009
9,837
1,416
cruce tectum
Visit site
✟59,743.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
God the Father is pleased with God the Son, "this is MY SON, with whom I AM well pleased". The Father delights to honor His Son. It is only the life of the indwelling Lord Jesus, His activity, in us and through us, that ultimately finds the approval of God.
Good theology here. In and of ourselves we can do nothing that pleases God. Practice of personal piety is good and worthy, but does not make anyone a "better Christian" or help them to grow in holiness or sanctity. In Christ you are already a holy, sanctified child of your loving Father, just like every other baptized child of God. You can't improve on perfection. It is finished.

Some form of personal piety is essential to the life of the Christian, yet care must be taken to maintain a humble and repentant attitude. It is very easy to fall into the trap of believing that because you are pleased with your practice of piety that you are more holy than another, which is pride, or conversely, if you feel like a failure in your practice of piety you are tempted to see yourself as less of a Christian and to question your salvation.

Personal piety has no real benefit either for the Christian, since it cannot advance him in righteousness before God, or for the neighbor when it is the cause of judgment, strife or envy. Yet your pious practice is an appropriate response to a Christ-centered life. Keep your focus on Christ and what he has done for you. Give thanks and praise. Then go and serve your neighbor in whatever mundane tasks your God-given vocations may require. In this you show your love both for God and for your neighbor.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,475
18,455
Orlando, Florida
✟1,249,423.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
It's a struggle for me too. I'm naturally inclined to worry and have trouble thinking beyond myself. But... you have to die to yourself. Christians throughout the ages have set down a pattern on how to do this- participation in worship, the sacraments, hearing the Word of God, prayer, repentance, good works. There's no magic formula that lets you escape that. Growing in faith means living with the ambiguity of not knowing exactly your standing with God.

It's a real struggle, the modern world has made a cult of the self and these patterns are deeply ingrained in us. Everything, including much of religion, is about serving it.
 
Upvote 0

Holoman

Credo
Jun 29, 2015
417
149
UK
✟18,043.00
Faith
Catholic
I'm no authority on the subject, but we don't do good acts to win favour or earn points as you rightly point out, we do them because we love God and we allow God to act through us. One cannot love God without at least some desire to surrender to his will and let the Holy Spirit fill you.

But don't think that God cannot be pleased, remember the parable of the lost son Luke 15:11-32. The father is overjoyed when the lost son returns, he doesn't dwell on the fact he squandered his inheritance or the things he got up to, he celebrates his return.
 
Upvote 0

jacks

Er Victus
Supporter
Jun 29, 2010
3,790
3,035
Northwest US
✟665,851.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You are not the center of God's universe. Maybe you need to find another church that doesn't feed your narcissism.

I know it's tough, it's a ubiquitous sin in our culture, and even present in much of our theology. I'd even venture to say you'ld be better going to no church at all rather than wallow in this stuff.

If you want to find God, go out and throw yourself into life. As Augustine said "Love God, and do what you will".

So much for "compassionate and gentle".
 
Upvote 0