Gospel preached, or read

[Kenny'sID]

I'll try again:

"19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. ” (Matt. 28:19-20)
One cannot do any of the things that Jesus commanded to/for himself. The church makes disciples. The church baptists. The church teaches Christians the doctrines of the faith.

What I don't think you are seeing there, Brian is yes, Jesus said that's what they should do and they should, just as we should today, go teach. But he by no means makes it a requirement to be a Christian or it makes them no less a Christian whether it's confirmed or not.. So as in OP's case, if that doesn't happen, and his salvation/Christianity is not verified by some man, it means nothing, Jesus simply didn't make it a requirement.

It's like someone saying go teach my child or tutor them, but if once the teacher reaches the child they find they have learned on there own, it simply isn't necessary. Now the teacher could say, you aren't taught till I verify you are taught, but that doesn't make the child any less smart, even if some man choose to force their involvement, that part would be man maid and not in the scripture at all. Look at it closely, and without preconceived definition of the scripture, and you'll see.

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me you are saying these people need to be judged as to where they are actually Christian/saved or not, but if you'll look at your scripture there, that's not what it is actually saying at all, in a nutshell, the scripture only says to go teach/baptist, nothing more. Besides, only God can judge if we are christian or not. Now if the individual, as in the OP has questions and is not sure, then of course it's fine to get verification if they have it right, but this doesn't seem to be the case with the OP. As for the baptism, I've given my opinion on that and who's to say a physical baptism is even necessary, it's only a ceremony, an image to make us more aware of the fact we are being washed clean and baptized with the holey spirit. the water does not make that happen, God/Jesus does and it can and will happen without water or ceremony.

Remember now, Jesus said to baptize, but he doesn't say it's a requirement to verify Christianity or to be a Christian, any more than teaching is a requirement or even necessary if one is self taught.

He man, they want to Come to God, let's make it as easy as we possibly can.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Why does another individual need to be involved in this?

I've been thinking about your question above, and I hope that you can see that that's a very western individualistic question. In most of the rest of the world and for most of church history, no one would even think to ask such a question. We have become so individualistic it's difficult for us to even see it (without a lot of help).

Once we do have "eyes to see" the communal aspect to Christianity can be found all over the pages of scripture. Look at the Lord's Prayer, for example: Give us this day. . . Lead us. . . deliver us. The church is not an optional add-on to the Christian's life.

What I don't think you are seeing there, Brian is yes, Jesus said that's what they should do and they should, just as we should today, go teach. But he by no means makes it a requirement to be a Christian or it makes them no less a Christian whether it's confirmed or not.. So as in OP's case, if that doesn't happen, and his salvation/Christianity is not verified by some man, it means nothing, Jesus simply didn't make it a requirement.

It's like someone saying go teach my child or tutor them, but if once the teacher reaches the child they find they have learned on there own, it simply isn't necessary. Now the teacher could say, you aren't taught till I verify you are taught, but that doesn't make the child any less smart, even if some man choose to force their involvement, that part would be man maid and not in the scripture at all. Look at it closely, and without preconceived definition of the scripture, and you'll see.

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me you are saying these people need to be judged as to where they are actually Christian/saved or not, but if you'll look at your scripture there, that's not what it is actually saying at all, in a nutshell, the scripture only says to go teach/baptist, nothing more. Besides, only God can judge if we are christian or not. Now if the individual, as in the OP has questions and is not sure, then of course it's fine to get verification if they have it right, but this doesn't seem to be the case with the OP. As for the baptism, I've given my opinion on that and who's to say a physical baptism is even necessary, it's only a ceremony, an image to make us more aware of the fact we are being washed clean and baptized with the holey spirit. the water does not make that happen, God/Jesus does and it can and will happen without water or ceremony.

Remember now, Jesus said to baptize, but he doesn't say it's a requirement to verify Christianity or to be a Christian, any more than teaching is a requirement or even necessary if one is self taught.

He man, they want to Come to God, let's make it as easy as we possibly can.

I never said that verification was salvific. I answered pot #2. You may to re-read post #2 again.

Also,

Why does another individual need to be involved in this?

I've been thinking about your question above, and I hope that you can see that that's a very western and individualistic question. In most of the rest of the world and for most of church history, no one would even think to ask such a question. We have become so individualistic it's difficult for us to even see it (without a lot of help).

Once we do have "eyes to see" the communal aspect to Christianity can be found all over the pages of scripture. Look at the Lord's Prayer, for example: Give us this day. . . Lead us. . . deliver us. We pray this prayer together.

The church is not an optional add-on to the Christian's life.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

who's to say a physical baptism is even necessary,

Jesus said it.

I'll quote it for the 3rd time: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."

Jesus was going to His death, so He was giving His last instructions to His core group. Do you honestly think that he commanded them to makes disciples, baptize and teach if any or all of things were unimportant and/or unnecessary Does that make sense to you?

 

[Kenny'sID]

I'll quote it for the 3rd time: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."

No, you are doing it again, he said to do these things, he never said they were required, just as it is not required to have ones Christianity verified, it just doesn't say that.

You say I would never ask these questions because it was always just the way back then, but I could write volumes on why questioning so-called and self appointed authority is and has been a very good thing. See how you are reacting here because of those who have put themselves in authority over you, you aren't even hearing that the scripture doesn't say what you are led to believe. This is what happens when people just believe man over God, and assume they are correct.

Church is fine if you can find one that speaks the truth but I'd much rather do without all together than be involved with one that doesn't. Edited: I had hoped this wouldn't go this far so, expect me to drop out anytime because I'm not certain this is worthy of a fight, or to bring on discord between us...maybe, maybe not, but for the moment, carry on.

 

[Tree of Life]

This is a little difficult to explain, I want to ask whether

In order to be converted is it necessary to hear the Gospel (Good news) message preached, or can one equally be converted through reading studying the Bible, reading a christian tract, or some other evangelistic literature by oneself. In other words is it only by preaching (proclaiming) in the context of a church service that people become christians. Must one go to a Gospel service, evangelistic event? I am just wondering. Because there are not always gospel services in churchs. Its often teaching for people who are already christians it seems to me.

I am thinking of a verse in the Bible that faith come through hearing, and hearing by the Word of God, also Phillip the evangelist and the Ethopian official where the man was reading Isaiah but could not understand, and Phillip explained it to him

Faith comes through hearing. Preaching is a powerful means of gospel communication. But Scripture reading will do the trick just as well.