Gorbachev says U.S. is sowing world ‘disorder’

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soblessed53

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MOSCOW - Former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev criticized the United States, and President Bush in particular, on Friday for sowing disorder across the world by seeking to build an empire.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19994563/

Yeah,it would appear so,but we are just one of the players in the end game.
 

Voegelin

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It would be interesting to see how many Americans believed that their country had an empire.
If anyone knows how to start a poll, please ask this question.

George Washington, among other founders, often referred to the American Empire. Washington's Federalists in New England, apoplectic over Jefferson's western expansion and the pending dilution of their votes in the Senate, quickly however became anti-Imperalists.

Charges of empire building are all political and have been since the early days of the Republic.
 
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soblessed53

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It would be interesting to see how many Americans believed that their country had an empire.
If anyone knows how to start a poll, please ask this question.


Yeah,that's just too funny,some 'empire'! ^_^ ^_^ :p :tutu:

Nothing like when 'the sun never set on the British Empire',now THAT was an empire! :eek:
 
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marshlewis

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George Washington, among other founders, often referred to the American Empire. Washington's Federalists in New England, apoplectic over Jefferson's western expansion and the pending dilution of their votes in the Senate, quickly however became anti-Imperalists.

Charges of empire building are all political and have been since the early days of the Republic.

You mean since the USA was a collection of 13 colonies on the east coast of the north American continent.
Next you will be saying that the US expanded via peaceful means.
 
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elhajj33

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has anyone seen the documentary: "Why we fight"? If you have comcast it's on demand under "premium channels->encore"

Also if you go to the documentary's website you'll find President Eisenhower's speech warning us against the "military industrial complex" and the potential for improper use of unwarranted power.
 
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Gregged

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has anyone seen the documentary: "Why we fight"? If you have comcast it's on demand under "premium channels->encore"

Also if you go to the documentary's website you'll find President Eisenhower's speech warning us against the "military industrial complex" and the potential for improper use of unwarranted power.

:thumbsup: That looks very good. Going to get the film "Why we fight" on DVD from Amazon. The trailer (also on the link you gave) seems very interesting, although just a confirmation of what I believe too. Thanks for the link :)
 
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Gregged

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:( Oh gosh! I know these things go on, but looking at the titles of the other DVDs which come up on Amazon shows the world is a scarey place!

Is it better to be ignorant of things such as war = profit? :sigh: The love of money... How much more my eyes have been opened in the last year or two as to how much Jesus meant when He talked about money being a root of evil. How many people are killed for others to make profit :(

Oh well, we're told to not let our hearts be troubled! :thumbsup: :(
 
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horuhe00

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There is no doubt that the past five years have been bad for the whole world because of the United States. There most countries were allied with the USA during the Afghanistan war but with the Iraq invasion, world support quickly vanished except for the few countries that played the odds of wining big in Iraq.
 
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BlackAndy

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There is no doubt that the past five years have been bad for the whole world because of the United States. There most countries were allied with the USA during the Afghanistan war but with the Iraq invasion, world support quickly vanished except for the few countries that played the odds of wining big in Iraq.
You forget that alot of countries who jumped ship when it came to the Iraq war were also countries who were ILLEGALLY profiting off of the OIL FOR FOOD scandel that was uncovered after the invasion.
France, Russia, China... to name a few (notice their positions in the UNSC).
 
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cyberfugue

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You forget that alot of countries who jumped ship when it came to the Iraq war were also countries who were ILLEGALLY profiting off of the OIL FOR FOOD scandel that was uncovered after the invasion.
France, Russia, China... to name a few (notice their positions in the UNSC).

Don't confuse these people with facts. They're much more accustomed to hype and propaganda.
 
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Gregged

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Don't confuse these people with facts. They're much more accustomed to hype and propaganda.


You also need to beware of people ;) who are blinded by the hype and propaganda of having their nation's flag over their eyes. They simply don't want to believe their "great" nation is involved in wrong doing so they cover their eyes, and close their ears.
 
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Kalevalatar

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You forget that alot of countries who jumped ship when it came to the Iraq war were also countries who were ILLEGALLY profiting off of the OIL FOR FOOD scandel that was uncovered after the invasion.
France, Russia, China... to name a few (notice their positions in the UNSC).

Whereas you seem to forget that a lot of countries, say, such as the United States of America and Australia, both of which participated in the illegal war, invasion, and occupation of Iraq, also profited profusely from the Oil-for-Food program. Australia, with $200 million in bribes to Hussein's regime, earns the title "the single largest payer of the illicit millions that bolstered the government of Saddam Hussein through years of sanctions," while US oil imports actually financed about 52 percent of the illegal kickpacks paid to the Hussein regime.

Let's see:

The United States was not only aware of Iraqi oil sales which violated UN sanctions and provided the bulk of the illicit money Saddam Hussein obtained from circumventing UN sanctions. On occasion, the United States actually facilitated the illicit oil sales, as happened in the Khor al-Amaya incident in 2003.

There is, for instance, the Texas-based Bayoil. Remember Bayoil?

Bayoil was "the largest provider of Iraqi oil imports into the United States." At the time when other companies around the world were sharply decreasing their purchases of Iraqi oil due to Iraq's surcharge demands, Bayoil actually "increased both its total purchases and its share of Iraqi oil exports, at one point buying about 20 percent of all Iraqi oil sold under the Oil-for-Food program." Bayoil then sold this oil primarily to U.S. oil companies and refineries, which, in turn, sold refined petroleum products, like gasoline and heating oil, to the USAian consumers.

Thus Bayoil, quote, "fostered corruption of the Oil-for-Food program by faciliating the payment at least $37 million in illegal surcharges to the Hussein regime on the oil it purchased."

And while we are at it, there is this one particular oil-hungry country whose energy companies could not directly participate in the Hussein-era Iraqi oil-fest and make their own claims. Namely the United States of America. There is also this one particular country that could not directly benefit from the Hussein-era Iraqi favouring of petroeuroes instead of petrodollars and was actually hurt by it. Namely the United States of America. Well, sure enough, less than a month after the start of the illegal US-occupation of Iraq, a presidential executive order is signed to seize "all Iraqi petroleum and petroleum products, and interests therein" and put them under the "protection" of the United States of America -- what's that if not the biggest oil theft in the history? Oh, and Iraq switches back to petrodollars -- what a coincidence. [/sarcasm]

Reports the Financial Times:

The tender, for which bids are due by June 10, switches the transaction back to dollars - the international currency of oil sales - despite the greenback's recent fall in value. Saddam Hussein in 2000 insisted Iraq's oil be sold for euros, a political move, but one that improved Iraq's recent earnings thanks to the rise in the value of the euro against the dollar.

And speaking of profiteering, remind me again what's Halliburton's current tap of "unaccounted-for" profits and just how many billions of Iraqi oil money did the US CPA steal during its short reign. Was it as much as the Hussein regime is supected to have stolen from the Oil-for-Food program, or is it actually *gasp* more?

Pot, meet Kettle?
 
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marshlewis

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You forget that alot of countries who jumped ship when it came to the Iraq war were also countries who were ILLEGALLY profiting off of the OIL FOR FOOD scandel that was uncovered after the invasion.
France, Russia, China... to name a few (notice their positions in the UNSC).

The US hasnt jumped ship because of illegal profiting off the Food for oil program. The US is still in the thick of the Iraq war. That has to be commended
 
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cyberfugue

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You also need to beware of people ;) who are blinded by the hype and propaganda of having their nation's flag over their eyes. They simply don't want to believe their "great" nation is involved in wrong doing so they cover their eyes, and close their ears.

Say, I see you guys are finally pulling out of Northern Ireland, after all these years. Real empires die hard, don't they? ;)

I never said the US does no wrong, my laughter is solely reserved for those who take the most ridiculous positions imaginable in order to implicate us in whatever of the world's evils they're able.

Whatever the US is to the world, it's a darn sight better than what your "great" nation did for humanity. Just ask whatever descendants are left of aboriginal peoples the world over.

Cheers!

:wave:
 
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