Good News Indeed, but then... WHAT IS IT!?

[BobRyan]

QFT.
When evangelists turn to fear, they lose me every time.

Fear is only helpful for those who do not want to go to hell.

 

[BobRyan]

Anyone who obeys the first and greatest commandment does not seek to obey through fear of hell if they don't. And it would be impossible, if you obey the first and greatest commandment to view the removal of the penalty for sin as a licence to happily sin as much as you want.

Was Christ "in error" in Matt 10:28???

Was Paul "in error" in Romans 11:17-21??

Was Paul again "in error" in 1 Cor 9:24-27??

 

[BobRyan]

The will of the father is you love him and his son.
Jesus commands can be summed up as:
Love God and love your neighbour.
If you love Jesus you will obey out of love for him and his father.
Oh the awful/ dark religion of those who don't obey as proof of their love for Christ, but rather fear of hell if they don't.
They have missed the true message, and the heart of the gospel is not in their life.
A religion driven by fear of hell, is not driven by love of Christ and his father

If you have perfect Love - you will have perfect obedience - and then the message of Christ in Matt 6 and in Matt 18 regarding the warning of "forgiveness revoked" will not be needed.

 

[BobRyan]

But with God all things are possible. A person can attain Sinless Perfectionism with God according to 1 Peter 4:1, Galatians 5:24, etc. In other words, I do not have to build an Ark in order to know that it was true and it happened and or for me to preach about the story of Noah and the Ark or to say to a person that is possible to build an Ark (with God's help). Also, Sinless Perfectionism is the end goal for many believer's lives. I am not going to preach that they will commit sin as they progress because not every believer's walk is the same with God. Plus, the goal is to overcome sin and not to sin. For example: An alcoholic may stumble in their road to recovery and I may even know that they may do so, but that does not mean I am going to preach they are going to slip back into being a drunk again. I believe some can overcome their sin right away with God if they have a strong enough faith in God. But in my discussion with Eternal Security Proponents, I have discovered that they are not really interested in truly living holy. In their view, they want to justify a sin and still be saved doctrine whereby a believer will never overcome sin in this life (When the Bible clearly tells us that we can overcome sin in this life).


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Thank you for sharing that --

In another thread some discussion going on (trying to go on) about what the gospel IS
and isn't.
Please share your thoughts on what IS the Gospel.

"God so loved the WORLD that HE GAVE His only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believes on Him might not perish but have ever lasting life" John 3:16

"Christ is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE World" 1 John 2:2

"God made Him who knew no sin to become sin in our behalf that we might be the righteousness of God in him" 2 Cor 5

"I will DRAW ALL mankind unto Me" John 12:32.

"Whosoever WILL may come" Rev 22:17

"Saved by grace through faith" Eph 2:8-10

"Born again -- new Creation old things passed away all things become new" 2 Cor 5, John 3.

"No longer I who live but Christ that lives in me - and the life I live I live by faith in the Son of God" Gal 2:20

"“Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also." John 14:1-3

Rev 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal Gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; 7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

Romans 2
13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my Gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Romans 6 - sin shall not be master over you.
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

 

[stuart lawrence]

There seems to be a belief among some that the condition you are not under the law is if you obey the law.
That doesn't sound right to me.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Was Christ "in error" in Matt 10:28???

Was Paul "in error" in Romans 11:17-21??

Was Paul again "in error" in 1 Cor 9:24-27??

Was Paul in error in gal3:19-22

Was Paul in error in rom10:4, rom3:19-22gal2:15&16, phil3:9, etc

 

[stuart lawrence]

If you have perfect Love - you will have perfect obedience - and then the message of Christ in Matt 6 and in Matt 18 regarding the warning of "forgiveness revoked" will not be needed.

Do you try and obey each and every literal command of Christ?
The answer is yes or no

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There seems to be a belief among some that the condition you are not under the law is if you obey the law.
That doesn't sound right to me.

Paul is talking to those who are trying to be circumcised in order to be saved (Which is going back to the Law of Moses). Paul is not talking about all laws or commands from God. Do a keyword search at blueletterbible.org and look at the appearances of the variation of the word "circumcision" and you will see that Paul is referencing the New Covenant heresy of "Circumcision Salvation."

We are not justified by the Old Law anymore.

For if you believe you are not under any kind of Law or Command, then you cannot be under the following Law or Command that says this,

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment" (1 John 3:23).


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[stuart lawrence]

Paul is talking to those who are trying to be circumcised in order to be saved (Which is going back to the Law of Moses). Paul is not talking about all laws or commands from God. Do a keyword search at blueletterbible.org and look at the appearances of the variation of the word "circumcision" and you will see that Paul is referencing the New Covenant heresy of "Circumcision Salvation."

We are not justified by the Old Law anymore.

For if you believe you are not under any kind of Law or Command, then you cannot be under the following Law or Command that says this,

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment" (1 John 3:23).


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But now a righteousness APART( APART) from law has been made known........
Rom3:21

Go to the bottom of the class Jason- again!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But now a righteousness APART( APART) from law has been made known........
Rom3:21

Go to the bottom of the class Jason- again!

Yes, rigtheousness apart from the Law of Moses; However, this is not talking about all law.
For under the New Covenant there is the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2), the Royal Law (James 2:8), the Law of Liberty (James 1:25).

Jesus says, if you love me, keep my Commandments (John 14:15).
It would be silly of God's Word to say this and then we later learn in His Word that this is not true.


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[stuart lawrence]

Yes, rigtheousness apart from the Law of Moses; However, this is not talking about all law.
For under the New Covenant there is the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2), the Royal Law (James 2:8), the Law of Liberty (James 1:25).

Jesus says, if you love me, keep my Commandments (John 14:15).
It would be silly of God's Word to say this and then immediately turn around and say that this is not true.


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Bring me a scripture where Paul states you have righteousness apart from some of the law but not all of it.
If you can, I will continue the discussion with you, if you cannot, there I nothing to discuss

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thank you for sharing that --

You are most welcome, my friend.

May God bless you.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Bring me a scripture where Paul states you have righteousness apart from some of the law but not all of it.
If you can, I will continue the discussion with you, if you cannot, there I nothing to discuss

You are confused because you do not realize (or you do not want to realize) that the Old Covenant Law has been fulfilled and that we are now under a New Covenant with New Laws or Commands.

I would recommend checking out the many articles (that include verses) on the subject at Grace Community International.

https://www.gci.org/law/lawmoses


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[stuart lawrence]

You are confused because you do not realize (or you do not want to realize) that the Old Covenant Law has been fulfilled and that we are now under a New Covenant with New Laws or Commands.

I would recommend checking out the many articles (that include verses) on the subject at Grace Community International.

https://www.gci.org/law/lawmoses


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As you have no scripture to support your claim there I nothing to discuss.
The reason you want to disagree I because you dont understand the new covenant

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As you have no scripture to support your claim there I nothing to discuss.
The reason you want to disagree I because you dont understand the new covenant

The Scripture is in the many articles. For me to post every article with Scripture from that website would not be appropriate. If you are truly interested in the truth in hearing what others have to say with God's Word, then you will check out the articles. If not, then believe whatever you want to believe.



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[stuart lawrence]

The Scripture is in the many articles. For me to post every article with Scripture would not be appropriate. If you are truly interested in the truth in hearing what others have to say with God's Word, then you will check out the articles. If not, then believe whatever you want to believe.



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And do try and keep up with what is being stated.
I have not said law does not exist but a law of righteousness does not exist.
I know that confuses you, but I have scripture to support my belief, whereas you have none to support yours

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And do try and keep up with what is being stated.
I have not said law does not exist but a law of righteousness does not exist.
I know that confuses you, but I have scripture to support my belief, whereas you have none to support yours

"For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law,"
(Romans 10:5).

This is clearly in reference to the Law of Moses and not all law.

Surely sin still exists today under the New Covenant. This is only possible if there is some kind of Law to break.
And all laws are righteous and good.

"Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." (1 John 3:4).

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous," (1 John 3:7).

How is one righteous? By doing righteousness.
This is only possible if one is following God's Laws or righteous ways according to His Word.

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" (Romans 6:16).

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:4).

"But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." (Acts 10:35).

Paul says, "Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Corinthians 15:34).

Peter says, "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." (2 Peter 2:21).

"If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doethrighteousness is born of him." (1 John 2:29).

"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:10).


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[Bible Highlighter]

And do try and keep up with what is being stated.
I have not said law does not exist but a law of righteousness does not exist.
I know that confuses you, but I have scripture to support my belief, whereas you have none to support yours

I am aware of what you said. I don't believe you. Oh yes. Sure you say that there is some kind of Law in existence but such a statment is meaningless. For the Law holds no lasting relevance to you in the long run. You do not actually believe in upholding any laws in regards to your salvation. Therefore you are not truly under any law. It's as if no law exists for you (even though you say that it does). Hence, why I am restating that there is a Law that does have consequences to you in you obeying or disobeying them. God's people are not above God's Laws. There are dire consequences to their soul (just like with the unbeliever) if they disobey God's Laws.

Also, a Law from God is inheritantly righteous or good.

The NIV and other translations render Romans 7:12 with the Law as being righteous.

The NIV says,

"So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good"

1 John 3:7 says, "he that doeth righteousness is righteous,"

This would logically be obeying the Laws of God if one is doing righteousness. For what other kind of doing of righteousness is there if one is not obeying God's Laws? Hello?



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[Bible Highlighter]

"The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes; the fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the Lord are true, and righteous altogether." (Psalms 19:8-9 ESV).


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[Bible Highlighter]

"Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers." (1 Timothy 1:9).


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