Good News Indeed, but then... WHAT IS IT!?

[Bible Highlighter]

The judgement i made is based on your beliefs and statements.
Why don't you tell others, for them Christianity is a journey of being made ever more holy as they progress in the faith. And as they progress they will commit sin.
That is by your admittance your journey. Preach that. Don't demand of others what you don't attain to in your own life

But with God all things are possible. A person can attain Sinless Perfectionism with God according to 1 Peter 4:1, Galatians 5:24, etc. In other words, I do not have to build an Ark in order to know that it was true and it happened and or for me to preach about the story of Noah and the Ark or to say to a person that is possible to build an Ark (with God's help). Also, Sinless Perfectionism is the end goal for many believer's lives. I am not going to preach that they will commit sin as they progress because not every believer's walk is the same with God. Plus, the goal is to overcome sin and not to sin. For example: An alcoholic may stumble in their road to recovery and I may even know that they may do so, but that does not mean I am going to preach they are going to slip back into being a drunk again. I believe some can overcome their sin right away with God if they have a strong enough faith in God. But in my discussion with Eternal Security Proponents, I have discovered that they are not really interested in truly living holy. In their view, they want to justify a sin and still be saved doctrine whereby a believer will never overcome sin in this life (When the Bible clearly tells us that we can overcome sin in this life).


...

 

[Rick Otto]

The West has been corrupted by the Western Church that treasures its AUTHORITY OVER people and over the very Body of Christ Itself... The Church of Christ has as its Treasury obedience to God... Obedience is not, in the Faith of Christ, IMPOSED, as the Western Church would have you believe, because of its 'permanent status' as the Vicarate of Christ... Instead, obedience is sought, asked for, and embraced... Obedience to Holy Elders in the Church, as Paul says, "to those having the Rule over you", is a burden on them, and freedom for the one seeking and receiving such obedience from them...



God's Law only applies to those who have been CALLED by God, who are thereby desirous of God, and it is discipled by and in the Church, and obedience is the only term that will work, because it cannot be self-directed, for Christ was not self-directed, but God directed, and God will not direct if we are not willing to obey Him in His instructions, so that we first need to be prepared in denial of self by obedience to them that have the Rule over us, and at a time appointed by God, we will begin to receive direction directly from God... And until that time, we are to be obedient to God-appointed men in the Body of Christ...

Obedience, you see, is the grave-yard of self-exaltation, and until it becomes engrained in one's soul as a second-nature willingly embraced, we are not ready to obey God... And there are exceptions to every rule...

But the Kingdom of Heaven is the Kingdom of God, and that means obedience to the King Who IS God, and such is the aim, the telos, the perfection and the end, of discipleship in the one, holy, catholic and Apostolic Church of our Lord and Savior...

Arsenios

Sweet.
Well, forgoing confession, my definition of self is fluid to the extent that Jesus is my pilot, not my co-pilot. Else obedience feels punitive to that rebellious portion of my hardboiled heart, which yet exists till I get glorified, it seems.
Not to appear discontent, as I have two healthy adult sons, a wonderful wife of 31 years, and 14 chickens. I play keyboards in a rock and roll band and a CD I can be proud of is about to be released.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How wonderful it would be to see the power of God at work healing people who are terminally ill with cancer, those on crutches walking again, and people raising their arms in praise and worship to God for what he has done.
All medically verified healings. They were not allowed to be put in a book concerning the healings unless two physicians/ consultants who had treated the healed people testified to their former illness, there had been no reoccurrence of the illness for five years, and the medical records of the patients had to be released.
But then, why would God not be in the business of healing people today?
The holy spirit, who is Gods power on earth has not changed in the past 2,000 years

You believe God can heal externally but why not internally on a spiritual level? Are not all things possible with God? Oh wait, I forgot, you are not under the penalty of the Law even though Paul was referencing the Law of Moses and not all law. See, this is what disturbs me. When you say you are not under the penalty of any law, obedience is not really necessary. This leads me to believe that you hold to one or two views. One view is that you somehow believe free will is erased or that God just chooses believers who are love robots. Meaning, true believers will always choose Jesus Christ. There is no free will. They are love robots. But are they love robots? Are they truly living holy lives according to the Bible? The second view is that you believe that a believer will generally live a holy life but yet one, or two sins will not necessarily keep them out of God's Kingdom. In other words, they can be a luke warm believer and be okay with God.


...

 

[Rick Otto]

Here is a really good quote that people should read if they believe in Eternal Security,

“Notice how confusing and self-contradictory it is to tell the sinner to repent, to act, as though he were partially responsible for his own salvation, then tell him that, once saved, he is eternally secure. It implies that man has responsibility before conversion but none after...​

I respectfully disagree.
I believe it implies that man has forgiveness after having had legal, not moral vulnerability to God's jurisdiction.​

 

[Arsenios]

All I will say here then us christians can only be as one through the holy spirit( phil2:2)
Of one heart and one mind in the holy spirit, for he leads the believer into truth
Had a quick look at your thread.
Love the quote from eph2:8&9
By grace are you saved, through faith,, and this not of yourselves, but the gift of God, not by works so that no one can boast

I have not seen you post over there yet in response to the OP, you scurrilous dog you!

Arsenios

 

[Alithis]

I am going to have to start the new thread...
Right in the middle of Holy Week...

Lord have Mercy!

Here it is: http://www.christianforums.com/threads/salvation-old-testament-vs-new-testament.7944211/

Arsenios

Why old vs new..? Why not old underwrites new ..foetells new and new reveales the true meaning of old .
Vs.. Sort of pits them against each other as if they are opposed when they are certainly not.

 

[stuart lawrence]

You believe God can heal externally but why not internally on a spiritual level? Are not all things possible with God? Oh wait, I forgot, you are not under the penalty of the Law even though Paul was referencing the Law of Moses and not all law. See, this is what disturbs me. When you say you are not under the penalty of any law, obedience is not really necessary. This leads me to believe that you hold to one or two views. One view is that you somehow believe free will is erased or that God just chooses believers who are love robots. Meaning, true believers will always choose Jesus Christ. There is no free will. They are love robots. But are they love robots? Are they truly living holy lives according to the Bible? The second view is that you believe that a believer will generally live a holy life but yet one, or two sins will not necessarily keep them out of God's Kingdom. In other words, they can be a luke warm believer and be okay with God.


...

Show me a post of mine where I wrote God cannot heal internally? More bearing false witness from someone in earnest the christian is under a law of righteousness concerning the ten commandments. The more in earnest people are they are under a law of righteousness concerning the ten commandments, the more guilty they are of breaking them. Always been that way of course. You simply endorse my core views sadly.
But your eyes are shut and your ears refuse to hear
I know you believe if you are not under the penalty of law obedience is not necessary.
If only you could see the true state of your relationship with God to believe that. But alas, your eyes are closed so you cannot see, and your ears are shut so you cannot hear.

 

[stuart lawrence]

But with God all things are possible. A person can attain Sinless Perfectionism with God according to 1 Peter 4:1, Galatians 5:24, etc. In other words, I do not have to build an Ark in order to know that it was true and it happened and or for me to preach about the story of Noah and the Ark or to say to a person that is possible to build an Ark (with God's help). Also, Sinless Perfectionism is the end goal for many believer's lives. I am not going to preach that they will commit sin as they progress because not every believer's walk is the same with God. Plus, the goal is to overcome sin and not to sin. For example: An alcoholic may stumble in their road to recovery and I may even know that they may do so, but that does not mean I am going to preach they are going to slip back into being a drunk again. I believe some can overcome their sin right away with God if they have a strong enough faith in God. But in my discussion with Eternal Security Proponents, I have discovered that they are not really interested in truly living holy. In their view, they want to justify a sin and still be saved doctrine whereby a believer will never overcome sin in this life (When the Bible clearly tells us that we can overcome sin in this life).


...

Well when you attain to sinless perfection let me know. But bearing false witness will be one of your sins that will firstly have to stop wont it

 

[stuart lawrence]

Imagine being married to someone and you only want to be nice to them because Gods laws say you must. You spend your christian life fearing if you are not nice to them, you will suffer the penalty of being cast into hell.
Not exactly a loving marriage is it!

 

[stuart lawrence]

I have not seen you post over there yet in response to the OP, you scurrilous dog you!

Arsenios

I accept your loving rebuke brother, and have gone to the thread and responded to your excellant question:
How Are we made perfect under the new covenant as they were not under the old one

 

[stuart lawrence]

I have not seen you post over there yet in response to the OP, you scurrilous dog you!

Arsenios

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Show me a post of mine where I wrote God cannot heal internally? More bearing false witness from someone in earnest the christian is under a law of righteousness concerning the ten commandments.

Again with the Ten Commandments. I already told you several times already I do not follow the Old Covenant Law but I follow the New Covenant. The Saturday Sabbath is no longer a binding command under the New Covenant. How can God condemn a person if they are obeying His commands under the New Covenant?

Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments.
All of the Commands of God in the New Testament are Commands that would come from Christ because Jesus is God. Also, He is the living Word, as well.

Also, unless you believe in Sinless Perfectionism in this life then you don't believe God can heal a person of their spiritual condition. They just remain slaves to their sins instead of slaves to righteousness. Paul says we become slaves or servants to righteousness. But you don't want to hear that.

The more in earnest people are they are under a law of righteousness concerning the ten commandments, the more guilty they are of breaking them. Always been that way of course. You simply endorse my core views sadly.

Paul was talking about how the Israelites were under a false sense of righteousness. They were trying to continue in a false set of rules alone without God or a Messiah for their salvation. They added man made traditions to God's laws, as well. It was all about do this and that and it had no involvement with God. Obeying God's Commands under the New Covenant after accepting Jesus is not bad. How so? Matthew 5:28-30 says if you look upon a woman in lust your whole body can be cast into hell fire. So by obeying this command, you will not suffer in being cast bodily into hell fire. You gain life. Pretty simple. Jesus was simple. He wouldn't tell you one thing and then turn around and have you believe something differently so quickly. That wouldn't make any sense.

But your eyes are shut and your ears refuse to hear
I know you believe if you are not under the penalty of law obedience is not necessary.
If only you could see the true state of your relationship with God to believe that. But alas, your eyes are closed so you cannot see, and your ears are shut so you cannot hear.

There is good reason that Eternal Security should be ignored. One, it is not in the Scriptures. Two, it goes against common basic morality of what we know to be good and right. For Eternal Security can be easily disproved by looking at the context of verses the OSAS Proponent quotes. The Eternal Security Proponent changes the plain straight forward meaning in many passages in order to get the Bible to say what they want it to say, too. Words like "fear" really do not mean "fear"; And words like "be faithful unto death and I will give you the crown of life" have zero meaning in their belief. They are just vain empty words or they are words to be twisted to fit their belief.

Also, there is no relationship with God for a type of people who make an allowance for sin. Meaning, God cannot condone a person's thinking that they can willfully abide in any kind of sin with the thinking they are saved. Sure, you say that believers in your camp obey God, but yet you tell them that not obeying has zero penalty by God. As if that somehow will lead people into holiness. I am here to tell you that such a concept does not lead people into holiness. Just think about how if I were to take away the consequences of other kinds of things in this life. If you take away the consequences to a person obeying the speed limit, they are going to then drive faster and be more unsafe on the road. A person who truly loves God will want to do what is pleasing and right in His sight always. They will leave no room for thinking they can get away with doing evil while also being saved. It doesn't work like that. But wait. You are saying a believer is changed and they will not want to do bad. So God takes away our free will after we accept Him? Are we love robots? Do our lives reflect that? I say no. You must actively choose each day in whom you will serve and and you must choose each day what you decide to do for God or what you will not do for God. You decide if you will sin or not. The choice is up to you. Just because you did a sinner's prayer once does not mean much if there is no real change in one's life and or if they are not standing up for what is good and right. I do not beieve your belief stands up for what is good and right. It makes an allowance for sin. For the moment you do not explain yourself properly is the moment you can lead a child into sin by your belief by saying they are not under the penatly of any law. This is why what you believe is so wrong on many levels.

Jesus says to certain believers, depart from me ye that work iniquity.

Iniquity is sin.

Scripture also says the Son of Man (Jesus) will send forth his angels and remove all those in Christ's Kingdom who offend and work iniquity (sin) and will cast them into the furnace of fire.

In other words, all who proclaim to be a part of Christ's Kingdom who abide in sin or spread a doctrine that leads others into sin will be cast into the Lake of Fire by Christ's angels.

For the true relationship with God is one that leads you into His good ways and not into serving two masters (i.e. both God and sin). For in your belief, you can do both, even though you say that such a belief is supposed to lead people into holiness (When there are testimonies from other beleivers that this is not the case).


....

 

[stuart lawrence]

I

Again with the Ten Commandments. I already told you several times already I do not follow the Old Covenant Law but I follow the New Covenant. The Saturday Sabbath is no longer a binding command under the New Covenant. How can God condemn a person if they are obeying His commands under the New Covenant?

Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments.
All of the Commands of God in the New Testament are Commands that would come from Christ because Jesus is God. Also, He is the living Word, as well.

Also, unless you believe in Sinless Perfectionism in this life then you don't believe God can heal a person of their spiritual condition. They just remain slaves to their sins instead of slaves to righteousness. Paul slaves we become slaves or servants to righteousness. But you don't want to hear that.



Paul was talking about how the Israelites were under a false sense of righteousness. They were trying to continue in a false set of rules alone without God or a Messiah for their salvation. They added man made traditions to God's laws, as well. It was all about do this and that and it had no involvement with God. Obeying God's Commands under the New Covenant after accepting Jesus is not bad. How so? Matthew 5:28-30 says if you look upon a woman in lust your whole body can be cast into hell fire. So by obeying this command, you will not suffer in being cast bodily into hell fire. You gain life. Pretty simple. Jesus was simple. He wouldn't tell you one thing and then turn around and have you believe something differently so quickly. That wouldn't make any sense.



There is good reason that Eternal Security should be ignored. One, it is not in the Scriptures. Two, it goes against common basic morality of what we know to be good and right. For Eternal Security can be easily disproved by looking at the context of verses OSAS Proponent quotes from Eternal Security. The Eternal Security Proponent changes the plain straight forward meaning in many passages in order to get the Bible to say what they want it to say, too. Words like "fear" really do not mean "fear"; And words like "be faithful unto death and I will give you the crown of life" have zero meaning in their belief. They are just vain empty words or they are words to be twisted to fit their belief.

Also, there is no relationship with God for a type of people who make an allowance for sin. Meaning, God cannot condone a person's thinking that they can willfully abide in any kind of sin with the thinking they are saved. Sure, you say that believers in your camp obey God, but yet you tell them that not obeying has zero penalty by God. As if that somehow will lead people into holiness. I am here to tell you that such a concept does not lead people into holiness. Just think about how if I were to take away the consequences of other kinds of things in this life. If you take away the consequences to a person obeying the speed limit, they are going to then drive faster and be more unsafe on the road. A person who truly loves God will want to do what is pleasing and right in His sight always. They will leave no room for thinking they can get away with doing evil while also being saved. It doesn't work like that. But wait. You are saying a believer is changed and they will not want to do bad. So God takes away our free will after we accept Him? Are we love robots? Do our lives reflect that? I say no. You must actively choose each day in whom you will serve and and you must choose each day what you decide to do for God or what you will not do for God. You decide if you will sin or not. The choice is up to you. Just because you did a sinner's prayer once does not mean much if there is no real change in one's life and or if they are not standing up for what is good and right. I do not beieve your belief stands up for what is good and right. It makes an allowance for sin. For the moment you do not explain yourself properly is the moment you can lead a child into sin by your belief by saying they are not under the penatly of any law. This is why what you believe is so wrong on many levels.

Jesus says to certain believers, depart from me ye that work iniquity.

Iniquity is sin.

Scripture also says the Son of Man (Jesus) will send forth his angels and remove all those in Christ's Kingdom who offend and work iniquity (sin) and will cast them into the furnace of fire.

In other words, all who proclaim to be a part of Christ's Kingdom who abide in sin or spread a doctrine that leads others into sin will be cast into the Lake of Fire by Christ's angels.

For the true relationship with God is one that leads you into His good ways and not into serving two masters (i.e. both God and sin). For in your belief, you can do both, even though you say that such a belief is supposed to lead people into holiness (When I have testmonies of that not happening).


....

I read down to where you wrote if you don't believe in sinless perfection on earth you don't believe God can heal a person of their spiritual condition. I saw no point in reading anymore.
I'm afraid you understand so little of true Christianity, unable to see beyond selective parts of the literal letter you woodenly recite.
The fact remains you constantly bear false witness as others have also noted, while stating when others sin it I of the devil.
Jesus said the Pharisees were blind guides, and of course they did not practice what they preached

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I
I read down to where you wrote if you don't believe in sinless perfection on earth you don't believe God can heal a person of their spiritual condition. I saw no point in reading anymore.
I'm afraid you understand so little of true Christianity, unable to see beyond selective parts of the literal letter you woodenly recite.
The fact remains you constantly bear false witness as others have also noted, while stating when others sin it I of the devil.
Jesus said the Pharisees were blind guides, and of course they did not practice what they preached

How am I bearing false witness against you? You don't believe a saint is truly a saint but they are a sinner instead. For you deny that a saint will be able to stop sinning in this life. They will still be a sinner and not a saint. Hence, you change the meaning of the word "saint." However, if you were to look up the meaning of the word "saint" or actually just think about it's meaning, a "saint" is a "saint" because he or she acts that way. For a person who has not stopped drinking is still an alcoholic or a person addicted to alcohol. It is only when an alcoholic stops drinking and becomes sober for a very significant amount of time and has no addiction anymore to alcohol is when they are free from their sin (Whereby they can say they are sober or alcohol free). Otherwise they are an alcoholic still. Now, it is true that a person needs a spiritual regeneration. We are of course saved by God. We are saved of God's work in Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification. But I am not bearing false witness against you because you justify a sin and still be saved doctrine. For you yourself say that you are not under the penalty of the law. So this means that if you do happen to sin on occasion, you are still saved. Hence, a sin and still be saved doctrine which is immoral and wrong. However, you believe that a saint has to generally live a holy life to prove that they are true. So again, it does come down to action in showing if you are truly right with God or not. But if you truly beleive that you are not under the penalty of the Law then even believers who sin as much as they want would be saved. For you seem to think that sinning less or getting away with just doing one sin would be okay with God. Jesus says that the luke warm believer will be spewed out of his mouth. So it is better we are either hot or cold with God. For if you are hot for God you are on fire for his kingdom and you are doing what He says and uplifting His Commands. If you are cold then you have the chance to repent and get your heart right with God the correct way (with no allowance for justifying sin).

How in the world you define each person who is hot, warm, or cold is beyond me.
For in your belief, such words in Scripture do not make any sense.


...

 

[Wordkeeper]

God never promised Abraham that he would go to heaven, avoid a tormented end in hell. His promise to Abraham was that the world would be blessed through his seed. If you think about it, this is not a change in course from what God intended for Adam. Adam was to be the original blessing to the world. That role is now the privilege of Abraham's descendent, a great honor indeed.

Why would the world need Adam? The word was like a new farm, a young horse. Farms have to be brought under cultivation, be subdued. Untamed horses need breaking. No raw resource is a fruitful, profit bearing entity. It needs to be harnessed, developed. This applies to the human body too.

Adam was well placed to subdue the world, of which his body was a microcosm, by dint of being in fellowship, partnership, with God . When he became culpable, by placing himself under the jurisdiction of the law, by becoming morally competent, knowing good and evil, he could be found in infraction, declared sinful, could not continue in fellowship with God, was separated, became incapable of subduing the world. His body became a body of death: able to sin, unable to rescue itself, being deprived of union with God.

Salvation is the possibility of union with God, rest, a destiny once available to Israel, until she displeased God, who said she would never enter His rest, be in union with him, a necessity for being a blessing to the world, it's subduer , it's harnesser, it's completer. That privilege would go to the new people of God, the new man in Christ, indicated by the tearing of the curtain separating the Jew from the Gentile, God from Man.

Really, salvation is the possibility of being a blessing to the world, something old testament saints could never aspire to, not having access to rest, a rest available only to Abraham's seed, identified by faith, not blood descent. Not Jew, but Jew and Gentile, all men, of faith.

I have no idea how the concept of "salvation is avoiding hell" was invented, unless hell means dying in your sin, being unfulfilled creatures.

 

[stuart lawrence]

How am I bearing false witness against you? You don't believe a saint is truly a saint but they are a sinner instead. For you deny that a saint will be able to stop sinning in this life. They will still be a sinner and not a saint. Hence, you change the meaning of the word "saint." However, if you were to look up the meaning of the word "saint" or actually just think about it's meaning, a "saint" is a "saint" because he or she acts that way. For a person who has not stopped drinking is still an alcoholic or a person addicted to alcohol. It is only when an alcoholic stops drinking and becomes sober for a very significant amount of time and has no addiction anymore to alcohol is when they are free from their sin (Whereby they can say they are sober or alcohol free). Otherwise they are an alcoholic still. Now, it is true that a person needs a spiritual regeneration. We are of course saved by God. We are saved of God's work in Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification. But I am not bearing false witness against you because you justify a sin and still be saved doctrine. For you yourself say that you are not under the penalty of the law. So this means that if you do happen to sin on occasion, you are still saved. Hence, a sin and still be saved doctrine which is immoral and wrong. However, you believe that a saint has to generally live a holy life to prove that they are true. So again, it does come down to action in showing if you are truly right with God or not. But if you truly beleive that you are not under the penalty of the Law then even believers who sin as much as they want would be saved. For you seem to think that sinning less or getting away with just doing one sin would be okay with God. Jesus says that the luke warm believer will be spewed out of his mouth. So it is better we are either hot or cold with God. For if you are hot for God you are on fire for his kingdom and you are doing what He says and uplifting His Commands. If you are cold then you have the chance to repent and get your heart right with God the correct way (with no allowance for justifying sin).

How in the world you define each person who is hot, warm, or cold is beyond me.
For in your belief, such words in Scripture do not make any sense.


...

Once again your post shows your lack of understanding.
Had the church of Corinth reached sinless perfection when Paul wrote to them?
Strife, factions, he told them they were carnal and much much more. Yet Paul called them saints!!!!!

I'm sure the truth makes little sense to you. If God removed the penalty of sin from you, you would view it as a licence to sin. You only want to obey God for fear of the consequences I you don't. No love in that, so you've broken the first and most important commandment haven't you!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm sure the truth makes little sense to you. If God removed the penalty of sin from you, you would view it as a licence to sin. You only want to obey God for fear of the consequences I you don't. No love in that, so you've broken the first and most important commandment haven't you!

So you are saying that a child is incapable of loving their father just because he may get angry at them for doing wrong or in doing something that could potentially put them at harm? Sometimes a rebuke or strong voice is necessary to let a child know that some things in this life are unacceptable behavior wise. Or do you believe God has never gotten upset at anyone because of their sin?


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 2:14,

"But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."​

Obviously this is the point Paul has in mind for those who carnally minded. For they do not accept the things of God.

If that is not enough for you, then read the following,

5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
(Romans 8:5-8).


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

...

 

[stuart lawrence]

Antinomian Excuse #1:

"Look at those carnal Corinthian Christians - some of them are fornicators, others are full of envy and strife. This is proof that we can sin and still be Christians." ~ 1 Corinthians 3 and 1 Corinthians 5.

The Biblical Response:

The question we need to be asking is, what does Paul say about these sinners "among them"? Are they right with God or not, righteous or unrighteous? Are they heavenbound or hellbound? Are they true saints, or imposters? (The word saint, let it be understood, is the Greek word hagios, which means "blameless ones".)

Notice also that he does not call them babes in Christ in I Corinthians 3, but says he must speak to them as babes in Christ. It is acceptable to address babes in Christ as babes in Christ, but there is something wrong if you have to address saints whose maturity is overdue as "babes in Christ". It is abnormal for even baby Christians to resist maturity. Maturity is growth in knowledge and wisdom, not growth in obedience (Hebrews 5:12-14). Paul cannot address the corporate Corinthian church as spiritual men with Christ-like minds, but as natural, carnal men. This is an important point because some of these professing Christians are bringing forth evidence that they are not in Christ at all! Paul's words serve as a rebuke (albeit a mild rebuke) to these men because their maturity is long overdue; they should have moved to meat by this point. "I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able." Do you sense his frustration? "There is a problem here," he is trying to say. "This is not the way it should be if you are truly Christians." That these professing Christians "receiveth not the things of God" reveals their carnal, natural, fleshly minds, as opposed to spiritual, Christ-like minds which they should have if they are truly in the faith.

As for Paul saying that the Corinthians are saints in 1 Corinthians 1:2:

First, Paul addresses the faithful saints or those who are Sanctified are are called to be saints. Paul does not say everyone in the church are saints or that every single person in the Corinth church is a saint. In fact, in 1 Corinthians 5 Paul says to kick out that believer who is a fornicator among them. So obviously Paul is not addressing all believers who have fellowship in Corinth. For you have to remember that even Judas was amongst the disciples but yet he later fell away and betrayed Lord Jesus.

Second, when you read down in verse 11 (1 Corinthians 1:11), Paul then says there are contentions among you. Meaning, admist them. This does not mean Paul is referring to every single believer in the church of Corinth.

Third, as for the use of the word "brethren" in 1 Corinthians 3: Paul has used the word "brethren" before in reference to unsaved Jews (Romans 9:3).



So you are saying that a child is incapable of loving their father just because he may get angry at them for doing wrong or in doing something that could potentially put them at harm? Sometimes a rebuke or strong voice is necessary to let a child know that some things in this life are unacceptable behavior wise. Or do you believe God has never gotten upset at anyone because of their sin?


...

Maturity is growth in knowledge and wisdom, not obedience?
Oh well.