God's will?

[faintfascination]

Hello Back in February, I finally made the decision to accept Jesus into my life. But after reading some books for new Christians, I find myself slightly more confused than before.. I have many questions, but for now, these are some things that have been bothering me for a while.

In one book I read, the author began by stating that no one on Earth is a mistake--that God had planned all the circumstances surrounding your birth long before you were even born. I have not read most of the bible, but in debates surrounding abortion, those are the arguments that I usually hear on the pro-life side.
So, my question is...going to the extremes--what about unmarried, teenage mothers or those who become pregnant through rape? Did God plan for those circumstances?
If it's not that he necessarily plans it, then is it that he allows it to happen?

At first, I started thinking of God as being a psychic, I guess.. That he knows everything that's going to happen but can't change things. But then I tossed that idea because God can make anything happen
So I added more to it..God knows all that's going to happen but can also change things for people when he wants, such as when we pray for something.
My question that came from this was..where does God's will/control end and our free will begin? Whenever something happens, whether it is bad or good, I always hear people say it's God's will that this happened.
Then that, to me, means we have no free will. That everything is already predetermined.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that we all had free will. If we didn't, there would be no sinning, but it is of our own choice that sin exists. And if that's not right, and God does in fact control everything that happens, then it is He who makes us sin, which doesn't sound like the God I've been hearing about.

 

[Peripatetic]

First of all, there is no limit to God's will or control. That said, he does allow bad things to happen. He allows the Devil to have a negative influence on a fallen world. So, people do bad things to each other, and God allows it to happen. Why? As you said, He has given us free will so we can either 1) accept God's grace and love each other, or 2) live for yourself according the world's values. Even those of us who are in the first camp still fall victim to our own sinful nature and do harm to others. The difference is that we are not condemned by those sins. Jesus died and paid the price for them, so we can accept his free gift of grace. We will still be exposed to suffering, but it shouldn't break our hope for a perfect future.

 

[fm107]

Hi faintfascination,

God has created us with freewill. God lets us make our own decisions.

We all have the choice to obey God or rebel against him.

Because freewill exists, people have a choice to disobey God and sin. (Sin is disobedience)

............................................................................................

God doesn't plan for someone to get raped.

But God knowing all things does know that this rape will occur.

It's not because God wills it to happen. God does however allow something bad to happen.

If he didn't then people would not have freewill.

............................................................................................

Make no mistake though, God will punish all those sinners on the day of judgement. God is a God of justice and he will make sure that the man gets a punishment in line with his sin. Believe me, being punished of a Holy God is far worse than getting punished of a corrupt justice system run by sinners.


So God never plans sin. If he did he could not be God. But he does know what sins people will commit.

Again, for freewill to exist, God does allow bad things to happen.

 

[faintfascination]

So then, going back to the book I mentioned that talks about God planning all the circumstances surrounding your birth...does it become merely that he KNOWS it will happen, rather than actually planning for it to happen?
Or was the book just wrong altogether and although God plans for YOU and the timing, He doesn't necessarily plan all the circumstances of you (your parents, how you were conceived, where you were born, etc...). Which would then mean that you could have had a different life altogether, although you would still be you?

About the free will part, that was what I had been thinking--that God doesn't will bad things to happen but he allows it to happen. BUT it confuses me when I hear people saying "It was meant to be" or "It was in God's will" when something bad (regardless of scale, ie: someone dying in car accident vs being 20 minutes late to work) happens.
Going to an extreme case--murder. Obviously, not what God wants us to do, but there have been those who have killed. God gave the murderer the free will to kill despite murder not being in His will. Then what do people say of the victim? "God took her"; "It was in God's will"; "It was her time to go". Does it then become that although it wasn't in His will for the murder to occur, that the victim was still meant to die at that time if by other means?

I apologize if this is quite confusing to read.. I seem to be confusing myself more and more here! >_<

I guess mainly, I am trying to understand whether God's will is always carried out or not. And if it isn't, do people who always say, "it's God's will" know that it isn't? Or do they just say that in order to feel better about something negative happening?

 

[DoctorJosh]

Hello Back in February, I finally made the decision to accept Jesus into my life. But after reading some books for new Christians, I find myself slightly more confused than before.. I have many questions, but for now, these are some things that have been bothering me for a while.

In one book I read, the author began by stating that no one on Earth is a mistake--that God had planned all the circumstances surrounding your birth long before you were even born. I have not read most of the bible, but in debates surrounding abortion, those are the arguments that I usually hear on the pro-life side.
So, my question is...going to the extremes--what about unmarried, teenage mothers or those who become pregnant through rape? Did God plan for those circumstances?
If it's not that he necessarily plans it, then is it that he allows it to happen?

At first, I started thinking of God as being a psychic, I guess.. That he knows everything that's going to happen but can't change things. But then I tossed that idea because God can make anything happen
So I added more to it..God knows all that's going to happen but can also change things for people when he wants, such as when we pray for something.
My question that came from this was..where does God's will/control end and our free will begin? Whenever something happens, whether it is bad or good, I always hear people say it's God's will that this happened.
Then that, to me, means we have no free will. That everything is already predetermined.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that we all had free will. If we didn't, there would be no sinning, but it is of our own choice that sin exists. And if that's not right, and God does in fact control everything that happens, then it is He who makes us sin, which doesn't sound like the God I've been hearing about.

Free will and free choice is what makes up our lives, our future and if we live an life for Jesus or not. God does not control our lives. If God wanted that He would have made us all angels. As for your question about teenagers getting pregnant, a soul is created at the time of conception. It is automatic. Not preplanned by God to make that girl pregnant for that is a sin, God is good and Love, He doesn't make bad things happen. Only God will help if you ask Him to, but for yourself and only for others that you Pray for such as health issues at times, but it also has to do with the other person and their free will if they believe in God or not whether they will receive healing or how God sees them and their Faith. What God chooses to do and for what reasons are His personal reasons alone. We cannot Judge God, God Judges us. We leave it all up to Him. I always wondered why God made the earth a ball shape. He had His reasons, He is after all the Creator of the Universe and smarter than I am. God Bless.

 

[oi_antz]

Hey mate, don't listen to anyone but God, you need to trust The Word every time you read. Some stuff went down in Garden of Eden and we all make choices, some more selfish than others. Leave the judging up to God and don't tolerate anything evil in your life, we have power in prayer to bring peace to our world. When you click on to eternal life, your actions are post-decision.. takes a bit to explain. Just trust God only, if you get any message from someone you don't feel is right, consult God on it. I like to read Psalms and hear the conversation you have with God, back and forth. This book is divinely holy and there is no other person but Jesus whose divine words are perfect. There's a world full of corrupted information and having Jesus in your life to read The Bible is a great way to understand who God truly is.

 

[singpeace]

Faintfascination,

God knows everything that will ever happen to everyone. He never forces His will on us, but gives us a free will to choose to serve him by accepting Jesus, or to choose not to serve him by rejecting Jesus.

With that said, God knew before the world began who would be born and who would be aborted. His will isn't for any young girl to be raped and become pregnant or that any unmarried woman become pregnant. It is the sinful nature of man that creates these situations either through rape or promiscuity. God wants people to choose him and let him take care of them. By the time a young girl or woman is in this state of mind, she is usually too blind to see any other way and feels trapped.

That's what the blood of Christ is for; to cover these sins of the fathers and women in fornication. As for rape victims, her only sin is to have that abortion. But God is merciful and kind and forgiving.

You are on the right track. He can change our circumstances when and where He wants. Prayer is a vital part of that.

But, I firmly believe that God never plans rape in order to bring about the birth of a child. He knew it would happen and so He knew the child would be born... not planned. He then loves that child as He does all children.

Does that help?

 

[flamingjavabean]

Given all the trillions of permutations of how we would respond, God allowed certain people to be born on earth... and somehow this is the best combination of destiny to bring Him the most glory, allowing every single human being to live by free will without encroaching upon one will of a single human being... craziness =)

 

[heymikey80]

You probably want to read the book of Job. It's ... hard to read. But it's significant.

There're three points that Christian growth will eventually make on you that'll fit some puzzle pieces together on such hot-button issues as this one.

There's not a ready answer to every question, based on our limitations.

God says He will repay for every injustice, anywhere. I believe that.

I also think that we're much worse than we ever thought possible. And that God is more giving and loving than we ever considered. There's this parable where the renters go and kill the owner's son .... That's us. It's tough to think of ourselves as something sinful, not innocent. And how sinful, well, that's an issue, itself.

 

[DoctorJosh]

You probably want to read the book of Job. It's ... hard to read. But it's significant.

There're three points that Christian growth will eventually make on you that'll fit some puzzle pieces together on such hot-button issues as this one.

There's not a ready answer to every question, based on our limitations.

God says He will repay for every injustice, anywhere. I believe that.

I also think that we're much worse than we ever thought possible. And that God is more giving and loving than we ever considered. There's this parable where the renters go and kill the owner's son .... That's us. It's tough to think of ourselves as something sinful, not innocent. And how sinful, well, that's an issue, itself.

If I had not read the Bible and know who God is, I would agree with most others that God is just going through the motions and already knows the fate of everyone on this planet. However, since I studied the Bible and know God now better since I am now knowledgeable about the Word, I can surely say God lets things play out as they will and He does not know the outcome of everyone until Judgment Day.

The reasons are this. God is not into a dog and pony show to already know the outcome of the world and know everyone's choice since He would simply just pick the souls before anyone was born and have them in Heaven already with Him, those that were evil He would already send to hell. So why go through all these years of just playing it out when God could have Judged every soul already? That just doesn't make sense and God is not a joker or a player. Why would God anger Himself over and over again and flood the entire earth to save only one family? Why would God go through so much just to play a game with Himself and satan? God doesn't play games. God is serious and has shown this many times.

So God lets us have Free will and Freedom of Choice, but God is fighting for us all the way. God does not know who will follow Him and who will not. That is up to us. God does know our hearts, but our hearts can change from evil to good and even really evil people have broke down and followed God. It also went vice versa with good people turning evil. We are given that Freedom of Choice, the outcome is our own fate to make and it is still unknown till we die and be Judged. Those that kept the Faith and Believed in Jesus will be given a place with Jesus, those that don't will face the worst outcome.

As for rape, God doesn't plan out any such thing, for God is good and Love. It is each persons choice, it was the person who raped the other that made that choice, but the person raped will either then make a wise choice for the other life or make a bad choice. Freedom of choice, but that choice will determine their fate in the end. We do have the right to defend ourselves against anyone trying to rape us, just as God defends Himself from satan.

As for such preplanned creation of souls, God creates the souls as they are needed. During that moment of conception, a soul is created. There are not billions of souls sitting around in a room waiting to be born into a body. When the time comes for God to Judge us and to say there are billions of souls just sitting around, they also need to be tested and God has created this Universe for that purpose to test each soul. So there are no billions of souls sitting around somewhere. This planet is the testing ground, the training camp, the area where souls are given a chance to know God and Love God. Those souls that are not given the chance such as an abortion we do not know their fate, but we can only go by the saying that all Children belong to God. Born innocent, thus innocent if they die young or before birth. However, we cannot create laws that we have no control over, for that is up to God to decide what He wants to do. So let us leave that up to God.

That God created this world to find volunteers who will Follow Him. Otherwise God would just have made everyone angels instead.

Our future is only determined by each of us. It only then those that are True to God the Father and the Lord Jesus will find peace in Heaven with them. God Bless.