God Planned the Fall

[Calminian]

The fall happened because of the curse...

Oh my gosh, no. You have it backwards. Read carefully. "Because you have done this (Fall), Cursed....."

The logical order of causality is fall, then curse.

No I am not confusing terms; you really cannot separate the fall from the curse.

yes, you really are confusing terms, and making false assertions about cause and effect. The events go together, but there is a specific logical order. It is correct to say the Fall caused or resulted in the Curse. It not correct to say the Curse resulted in the Fall.

I know you're going to keep defending it as your whole accusation really depends on this false premise, so I don't expect you to concede. But your premise really is crumbling.

 

[Daaa]

Yes, post-fall, as opposed to pre-fall.

Understood. What are you refering to?

 

[Daaa]

Oh my gosh, no. You have it backwards. Read carefully. "Because you have done this (Fall), Cursed....."

The logical order of causality is fall, then curse.



yes, you really are confusing terms, and making false assertions about cause and effect. The events go together, but there is a specific logical order. It is correct to say the Fall caused or resulted in the Curse. It not correct to say the Curse resulted in the Fall.

I know you're going to keep defending it as your whole accusation really depends on this false premise, so I don't expect you to concede. But your premise really is crumbling.

Yes the curse God promised, than the fall happened, the curse was initiated. The real issue is God caused it. Planned it. ordained it. It was totally God's will. Adam had no choice.

 

[Steeno7]

Understood. What are you refering to?

The passages you are quoting that are speaking post-fall, not pre-fall creation.

 

[Daaa]

The passages you are quoting that are speaking post-fall, not pre-fall creation.

No.

"Before"

look at the time reference to the passage: "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting"

Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, you have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, you are God. You turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.

 

[Steeno7]

No.

"Before"

look at the time reference to the passage: "Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting"

Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, you have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, you are God. You turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.

You are conflating two different thoughts into one. Yes He was God even before He brought forth mountains, before He formed the earth, He was God. And Yes He had been their dwelling place for all generations.

 

[Daaa]

You are conflating two different thoughts into one. Yes He was God even before He brought forth mountains, before He formed the earth, He was God. And Yes He had been their dwelling place for all generations.

Can you read the WHOLE verse? "You turn man to destruction" All in context of one verse the whole plan from beginning to the end

 

[Steeno7]

Can you read the WHOLE verse? "You turn man to destruction" All in context of one verse the whole plan from beginning to the end

He is God from everlasting to everlasting.

I gave you a hint but you didn't take it. There were no "generations" before the fall.

 

[Daaa]

He is God from everlasting to everlasting.

I gave you a hint but you didn't take it. There were no "generations" before the fall.

Why would I? You did not address the WHOLE verse. No there is not generations before the fall. But that is not what this verse is addressing. It is addressing God's plan all man kind before the fall.

 

[Steeno7]

Why would I? You did not address the WHOLE verse. No there is not generations before the fall. But that is not what this verse is addressing. It is addressing God's plan all man kind before the fall.

No, it's not. It's praising the God who has always been, for being their safe dwelling place.

 

[Daaa]

No, it's not. It's praising the God who has always been, for being their safe dwelling place.

So you are ignoring half the verse as if it never says "You turn man to destruction"??? I see.

 

[Steeno7]

So you are ignoring half the verse as if it never says "You turn man to destruction"??? I see.

As a result of the fall.

 

[Daaa]

As a result of the fall.

Is this suppose to mean something? This verse has nothing to do with post fall, its context address pre-fall. Let God's Word become your truth, instead of twisting God's Word to fit your preconceived bias.

 

[Steeno7]

Is this suppose to mean something? This verse has nothing to do with post fall, its context address pre-fall. Let God's Word become your truth, instead of twisting God's Word to fit your preconceived bias.

Lord, you have been our dwelling place in all generations.

Before the mountains were born, or you gave birth to the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.

You turn man back into dust and say, "Return, O children of men".

 

[Daaa]

Lord, you have been our dwelling place in all generations.

Before the mountains were born, or you gave birth to the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.

You turn man back into dust and say, "Return, O children of men".

What was man before God formed man from the dust of the ground and made him a living soul? Seventh day.

On the sixth day God created man into Him image and likeness. two days. One created/other formed.

Dust/destrustion.... This is God telling us what His plans were before creation. Do you know what revelation is? It means the unveiling. Its when God's Spirit reveals something new to you and you either receive it or reject it.

Jeremiah 18:1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying: 2 “Arise and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause you to hear My words.” 3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was "marred" in the hand of the potter

 

[Steeno7]

What was man before God formed man from the dust of the ground and made him a living soul? Seventh day.

On the sixth day God created man into Him image and likeness. two days. One created/other formed.

Dust/destrustion.... This is God telling us what His plans were before creation. Do you know what revelation is? It means the unveiling. Its when God's Spirit reveals something new to you and you either receive it or reject it.

Jeremiah 18:1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying: 2 “Arise and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause you to hear My words.” 3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and there he was, making something at the wheel. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was "marred" in the hand of the potter

Okie dokie.

 

[Daaa]

Okie dokie.

Yea that is all you have denial and rejecting what is said in God's Word and replacing it with Okie dokie.

 

[Keachian]

Yes, The Apostle Paul says as much:
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

From this passage we see that God did subject creation to futility through the fall, not only that but he did so with the Incarnation, Death and Resurrection of Christ in mind.

 

[Daaa]

Yes, The Apostle Paul says as much:
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

From this passage we see that God did subject creation to futility through the fall, not only that but he did so with the Incarnation, Death and Resurrection of Christ in mind.

That is correct. God had a savior as well as a plan before the foundation of the earth, for the lamb was slain from the foundation of the earth.

 

[seeingeyes]

That is correct. God had a savior as well as a plan before the foundation of the earth, for the lamb was slain from the foundation of the earth.

God is working on 'plan A' here. He doesn't need a 'plan B' 'cause, ya know, He's God.