God Planned the Fall

[Daaa]

I do not see how God of all creation, creator of all things could not ordain something that effected His whole creation, for God to not be 100% responsible for it all.

Adam/man is a nobody compared to the who God is; and Satan is nothing but a created being that God created to lie from his beginning and has no power to do anything unless God ordains it.

It was God not little Adam and Eve who caused the fall, it was God not little Adam who planned as well as set up Adam and Eve to sin; it is God not Little Adam and Eve. God turned man to destruction not little Adam, It is totally against mans will that all creation came under God’s curse. It surely was not the result of its carnal man’s own choice, but planned that way by the God who created all things.

 

[Steeno7]

No. God planned for the fall.

 

[Daaa]

No. God planned for the fall.

Same thing. He ordained it. It was His purpose long before there was a sinner.

 

[Godisgood12]

God is truely in complete control.

How all creation yearns to be with God only.

 

[Steeno7]

Same thing. He ordained it. It was His purpose long before there was a sinner.

No, not the same thing at all. The fall was not His purpose, but it was planned for within His purpose. It was part of His Providence, meaning not that He caused it, but that He made provision for it.

 

[Daaa]

No, not the same thing at all. The fall was not His purpose, but it was planned for within His purpose. It was part of His Providence, meaning not that He caused it, but that He made provision for it.

[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']Sounds like a merry go round. Sure He caused it. Who else could of caused it? Is there a God out there other then God doing things and God has no say??? Is He not God soverign over all things? [/FONT]

 

[Steeno7]

Sounds like a merry go round. Sure He caused it. Who else could of caused it? Is there a God out there other then God doing things and God has no say??? Is He not God soverign over all things?

Well, He is the creative cause of everything. But that does not make Him the culpable cause of everything that transpires within His creation.

 

[Daaa]

Well, He is the creative cause of everything. But that does not make Him the culpable cause of everything that transpires within His creation.

So are you saying He does not control all things?

 

[Steeno7]

So are you saying He does not control all things?

He controls everything He so desires to control, according to His will.

 

[Calminian]

So are you saying He does not control all things?

Ordained is not the same as planned. For instance, you may allow your kids some freedoms knowing they are going to make mistakes, and come up with a backup plan for the inevitable, but that is not the same as planning it. You're merely allowing it.

You could decide to take all you kids freedoms away, to avoid all the mistakes they might make, but you realize it's better to grant them freedom, so they can choose both bad and good.

God knew of the fall, but he also chose to allow Adam the freedom to make his choice. In the mind of God, freedom was more important than preventing all sin. I have a feeling you think the same way.

If you believe that God could not have given men freedom to sin, then it would seem you are the one limiting God.

 

[Daaa]

He controls everything He so desires to control, according to His will.

So do things happen outside His will?

 

[Steeno7]

So do things happen outside His will?

Nope.

 

[Daaa]

Ordained is not the same as planned. For instance, you may allow your kids some freedoms knowing they are going to make mistakes, and come up with a backup plan for the inevitable, but that is not the same as planning it. You're merely allowing it.

You could decide to take all you kids freedoms away, to avoid all the mistakes they might make, but you realize it's better to grant them freedom, so they can choose both bad and good.

God knew of the fall, but he also chose to allow Adam the freedom to make his choice. In the mind of God, freedom was more important than preventing all sin. I have a feeling you think the same way.

If you believe that God could not have given men freedom to sin, then it would seem you are the one limiting God.

(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have

 

[Steeno7]

(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have

That readers digest translation you found ain't gonna cut it with me.

 

[Calminian]

(NIRV) Romans 8: 20 The created world was bound to fail. But that was not the result of its own choice. It was planned that way by the One who made it. God planned to set the created world free. He didn't want it to rot away completely. Instead, he wanted it to have the same glorious freedom that his children have

And now you're confusing the fall with the curse. God didn't fall, but he cursed the world as a result of the Fall. Adam is the one that fell, and because the world was given to him, the entire world was cursed. But as the passage above says, redemption is near, not just for adamites, but the entire creation. So predation in the animal kingdom will cease, and soon death will cease as well.

But you're still confusing terms: ordained with planned (or caused), curse with fall. You've got to be precise in your terminology.

 

[Steeno7]

And now you're confusing the fall with the curse. God didn't fall, but he cursed the world as a result of the Fall.

Yes, it is speaking post-fall.

 

[Daaa]

That readers digest translation you found ain't gonna cut it with me.

Here is another verse.


Ps. 90:1-3. "Lord, you have been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you have formed the earth or the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, you are God. You turn man to destruction; and say return you children of men.

I didn't know readers digest translated bibles?

Is it called a (RDTB)? Can't seem to find it on line?

 

[Daaa]

And now you're confusing the fall with the curse. God didn't fall, but he cursed the world as a result of the Fall. Adam is the one that fell, and because the world was given to him, the entire world was cursed. But as the passage above says, redemption is near, not just for adamites, but the entire creation. So predation in the animal kingdom will cease, and soon death will cease as well.

But you're still confusing terms: ordained with planned (or caused), curse with fall. You've got to be precise in your terminology.

The fall happened because of the curse, so did death happen the moment of the curse for Adam died spiritually to the realm of God. They are one in the same and effect all of creation. All creation fell including the animals. And yes the entire world was cursed because of the fall. Yes redemntion is also part of God's plan. All died in Adam will be made alive in Christ. There will be no more death.

No I am not confusing terms; you really cannot separate the fall from the curse.

 

[Daaa]

Yes, it is speaking post-fall.

Post fall?

 

[Steeno7]

Post fall?

Yes, post-fall, as opposed to pre-fall.