God is not real because.... HELP

[berachah]

1. The alternative to God is evolution and there is not one piece of evidence for evolution in existence today . (to this day, out of the billions of fossils found, not a single transitonary fossil has ever been found - that is, evidence of one creature evolving into another)
Without this evidence and together with the fact that no one has ever observed evolution taking place and that it cannot be reproduced makes it is non-scientific theory. (go check the pre-requisites for something being called scientific).
Besides this the 1st 2 thermodynamics (scientific laws) are contrary to evolution.

So as much as Christians believe in God through faith, evolutionists do the same.

2. I suppose the best way is to ask your friend which particular parts might be wrong. This might encourage her to actually read the bible and could be a starting point for studying the Word with her.
The study of science was actually initiated by Christians and science in fact does not conflict with the faith at all. What you believe before you begin your scientific interpretations is crucial. Christians and non believers study the same material but come to different conclusions.

3. The Old covenant has passed and a new one is in place through Jesus Christ. Those in the Body of Christ are the new Jews, and those without the covenant are the new Gentiles. The same fate exists for Jews and Gentiles.
We are not called to judge at this time and the accusations against gays is the great folly of the modern church. We are meant to draw all to Christ, to be the light and not to condemn. We know that homosexuality is against the will of God. But it is our duty to lovingly reveal Christ to gays without judging them. Rather the Holy Spirit will convict them of their sin as He has done with each one of us.

4. The Christian faith is the only faith that deals with man's sin. Sin separates us from God and we need to be reconciled to enter into His presence (heaven) in the next life.
Christianity is the only faith the accurately prophecies the future - because only God knows the future.
Christianity is the only faith that stirs up animosity in non believers. Most non spiritual people can freely discuss any faith or religion with interest but Christianity stires up an unknown resentment. Perhaps your friend should question why. Is it not because there is a spiritual battle between God and Satan, good and evil - and humanity is the prize.

5. Denominations are man's response to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. God moves and man responds, unfortunately often in a way contrary to what God intended. Then God moves again and a new response (denomination) is borne. Whenever the will of man supersedes the work of God, a denomination begins to wane in its spiritual power and this has happened for thousands of years. Being Christian does not mean we are perfect. Often we are led to move to a new move of God.

6. A faith should be judged on its fruit and throughout the world Christians are at the forefront of serving and helping the sick, needy and abandoned. And they do it for no return. Of course some err, and others allow unGodly people to run their work with dire consequences, but overall, things such as women's emacipation, slavery, child abuse, human rights and almost every other advancement in the civilized world came through Christian endeavours. The world was a dark and evil place before Christianity established many of the laws and disciplines of soceity we often take for granted.

7. No one is perfect and we are not called to judge. However it is also important to realize gays dont only want equality the want to shape society. In most countries gay rights now exceed family rights and homosexuality is openly endorsed and encouraged at the expense of marriage and hetersexual relationships. This needs to be resisted in a Christ like manner. The evils of homosexuality are obvious when studied. Sexual diseases, abuse of kids, multiple sexual partners (the average in in the 100's) are influences on society that cannot be considered healthy for any society.

8. There is absolutely no evidence for evolution at all and there is extensive scientific proof to show the world/universe cannot possibly be millions of years (never mind billions). Evolutionists deceitfully point to natural selection and survival of the fittest but these are accepted facts of the Christian creation model and defintely not proof of evolution. Scientific advances openly contradict evolution, yet society seems to ignore this evidence. A simple Q for your friend would be "how did creatures reproduce if it took millions of years for reproduction capacity to evolve."
Perhaps your friend mind be interested to know that it is scientifically more probable for a fully functional jumbo jet to evolve out of the desert (given enough time, heat and random mutation) than it is for a man to evolve and fly the same plane.

9. Dinosaurs are still present today in the form of crocodiles and other reptiles and there is much evidence of recent dragons througout the world. The big lie of evolutionists is the dating of these fossils. There is currently no scientific method to date more than a few 1000 years. (and that is supposing climate has remained unchanged over time - which we know is not the case) Again unscientific.

10. Your friend is right about judgement and love and she might be interested to hear that Jesus said the same things. Sadly Christians do not follow the faith as they should. Gandhi once said "if it wasn't for the Christians, everyone would want to be one." And this truly is a sad indictment of the state of our faith.

Perhaps your friend should wonder where the emotions of love come from. How did this evolve is only the fittest are supposed to survive? Where does the sense of right and wrong come from? Where does the idea of a God come from?

 

[insurchoftruth]

God cares enough for his Word, to make sure that it will remain true and original, through the centuries.

There have been always true Christians, through all generations, who preserved the Word of God, in its originallity, becasuse they feared God, and because the appreciated it.

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]There are much more documents (manuscripts) about the New Testament in the world, than they are for any other ancient literature! - Josh McDowell[/FONT]

 

[heymikey80]

1. I do not say there is no God, I just do not have proof that there is so I will not live my life based on a belief.

Inconsistent argument. Got proof you have a life? Got proof of love, of existence, of truth, of good, of wrong?

2. Bible (new testement), is man made, man wrote the bible so there for it can be wrong, have short comings, be exageratted, or biased in its view on any subject. It is also thousands of years old before the dawn of science so there for making uneducated statments.

Isn't rejection of something without examining it carefully ... prejudice? Is that right?

3. Bible (old testement), clearly states that all gentiles (none jews) are not the chosen people and are going to hell. So the fact that christians still use this bible when it clearly states they are not whom it is for annoys me. There is also the fact that christians do not believe people should be gay I find it disgusting and horrible that anyone be excluded or made to feel bad about them selves because of who they are when they are not hurting anyone.

Genesis 22:18 says differently, and there are a number of places in Isaiah and other prophets that say differently.

The Bible says something about homosexuality. Is this just a question for the sake of argument? People shouldn't exploit other people, and the Bible sees this as exploitation in an unnatural form of affection.

4. Other Religions- which one is right can you say your religion is the right religion? NO because there is no proof. So this brings me back to not going to lead my life based on one religion when there is no proof to only find out that it is the wrong one.

So is the idea to live your life in a way that's unmistakably wrong, so you won't be surprised when you discover it really is wrong? Let's say you did this in a class in college -- intentionally got all the answers wrong on the test because, even if you knew what the prof thought was the right answer, you didn't trust the prof. Think you'd get a degree from that college?

5. Changes- religions have changed to suit people lives protestants used to be chatholics, free protestant (paisley iris robinson) decided as a man with their bias and opions to develop a religion and tell people this is how they are to lead their lives.

Um, so you're telling me, the existence of wrong ways means there must not be a right way?

6. All Religion- it is not just christianity Muslims in parts of africa cut off a womens [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] as they belive it is what their god wants.. you say this is wrong but they believe it is not but is their belief.

See above: one wrong belief implies they're all wrong?

7. Cherry Picking- I have never met anyone that follows the bible to the last letter, so they have no room for judgment yet they will picket gay perades and try to stop other people having their religious freedoms.

Excuse me? I've never picketed a gay parade nor stopped people from religious freedom.

8. Most christians as other religions do not believe in evolution. I think That is rediculous as there is proof of this.

9. They belive the dinisaurs are here to test us. (just cant explain it in thier timeline)

Again -- this is a question of how people deal with what they believe. You happen to believe in cartain rules of dating that conclude in dinosaurs. What's your proof?

Frankly, I'm a cosmology enthusiast who believes in long-time creation. I'm a Klinean. So this whole line of reasoning doesn't really hit the nail on the head.

10. I can never be a christian, muslim and or any religion as I believe people should love and help everyone no matter what; there should be no judgment placed unless you hurt someone which is why we have laws.

I believe prejudiced talk about people -- even Christians -- constitutes a spiritual form of murder. You wish certain kinds of people didn't exist. That's an internal form of murder. And it's judgmental. The nine comments above make my case for me.

Aside, I think there's a consistency problem. There's plenty that's been said here that attacks people for things that don't hurt others. And so this person is already inconsistent with their own belief system. Why wouldn't someone be allowed to question evolution if it hurts no one? Why shouldn't someone be allowed to say their religious opinions against homosexuality if it doesn't hurt anyone? And yet these are objections against religion. If the person actually believed in the "no hurt" policy, these issues would not have come up.

The truth is, some things hurt in a different way -- spiritually. Religion is going to account for that, because for 1800 years most of human culture accounted for that. I don't believe modern culture was right to exclude spirituality, and so I oppose many of the complaints so far, because I think they're hurtful, spiritually.

I think that people belive in a god and afterlife because they are to scared to face thier mortality, how small they are in comparison to the universe and the fact that they have no answers. I believe people who have no self control or direction in life also grab onto religion as it gives them structure that they need.

I agree this is the case for some, but not for others. The number of people who die for their beliefs -- even wrong beliefs -- attests to their fear of mortality not being the issue at hand.

I further believe people who are humbled by the vastness of the universe or who need structure often fall into science as a religion as well and are offended or hurt when it's ripped from their grasp instead. Often these people reach for a diluted religion that's easy to understand and handle, by lumping everyone in one or two camps. The end result is a refusal to consider the claims of various religions or to make sense of their motives.

 

[Weasel7711]

1. I do not say there is no God, I just do not have proof that there is so I will not live my life based on a belief.
-Good for her

2. Bible (new testement), is man made, man wrote the bible so there for it can be wrong, have short comings, be exageratted, or biased in its view on any subject. It is also thousands of years old before the dawn of science so there for making uneducated statements.
People made educated statements way before the "dawn of science." The scientific method was not the cure-all to man's ignorance. As far as the fallibility of scripture, that is a belief that it is directly inspired by God


3. Bible (old testement), clearly states that all gentiles (none jews) are not the chosen people and are going to hell.
No it doesn't
So the fact that christians still use this bible when it clearly states they are not whom it is for annoys me. There is also the fact that christians do not believe people should be gay I find it disgusting and horrible that anyone be excluded or made to feel bad about them selves because of who they are when they are not hurting anyone.
Christ clearly explains the fact that the gospel was for the Jews first, that they would be a light unto the gentiles. Once the Jews received the gospel it was opened up to the gentiles. There are sheep that are not of this fold.
In regard to calling being gay a sin, we are all sinners. Should we stop believing that murder is a sin because it makes murderers feel bad? Or liars? Or thieves? Or blasphemers?

4. Other Religions- which one is right can you say your religion is the right religion? NO because there is no proof. So this brings me back to not going to lead my life based on one religion when there is no proof to only find out that it is the wrong one.
There's loads of proof, you just choose not to believe it.

5. Changes- religions have changed to suit people lives protestants used to be chatholics, free protestant (paisley iris robinson) decided as a man with their bias and opions to develop a religion and tell people this is how they are to lead their lives.Just because a religion changes does not make it wrong.

6. All Religion- it is not just christianity Muslims in parts of africa cut off a womens [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] as they belive it is what their god wants.. you say this is wrong but they believe it is not but is their belief.
What was the question again?

7. Cherry Picking- I have never met anyone that follows the bible to the last letter, so they have no room for judgment yet they will picket gay perades and try to stop other people having their religious freedoms.
Yeah never picketed a gay parade. I have a few gay friends. I tell them we're all sinners, myself included. Never picketed them.

8. Most christians as other religions do not believe in evolution. I think That is rediculous as there is proof of this.
Proof? No. Evidence to support it, some yes. But hardly proof. Still this is a straw man, as evolution has nothing to do with Xianity.

9. They belive the dinisaurs are here to test us. (just cant explain it in thier timeline)
I had no idea I believed that.

10. I can never be a christian, muslim and or any religion as I believe people should love and help everyone no matter what; there should be no judgment placed unless you hurt someone which is why we have laws. I think that people belive in a god and afterlife because they are to scared to face thier mortality, how small they are in comparison to the universe and the fact that they have no answers. I believe people who have no self control or direction in life also grab onto religion as it gives them structure that they need.People SHOULD love and help each other. But they don't usually. In fact when left to their own devices they rape and murder each other, without the help of religion. Christianity is the path to reconciliation with God because we have broken his laws. Not a way to be better than your neighbor.

 

[eucharistic]

The Darwinian theory of evolution is highly speculative. It falls apart at the biomolecular level. Darwin thought the cell was essentially a blob of jelly because microscopes in his day were poor. His theory was based upon the notion that very basic elements can randomly interact over long periods of time and through successive, slight moderations can evolve and become more complex things. However, even Darwin admitted that if it could be proven that the building blocks of life were complicated, his theory would break down. In the past decade or so the technological advancements in biochemistry have revealed just how complex life is even at the very basic levels. The cell is made up of highly complex machinery and evolutionists don't have any real answers for this in theory let alone actual experimental data showing how these systems were produced.


Another interesting fact is that you always hear people talk about life originating in that "primordial soup" but you don't often hear that amino acids, the building blocks of proteins, actually dissolve in water. To hook them together it requires the removal of a water molecule. Water is quite abundant in the scenarios scientists suggest life originated from so this is also a huge stumbling block to Darwinism.


But besides all of this, here are some implications of the Darwinian theory of evolution and physicalism:


You are nothing but dust. Life is not precious. Your existence is devoid of meaning and purpose. You are a robot wholly programmed by external stimuli. Intelligence, information, reason, order, and consciousness were produced by random, chaotic, non-reasonable, non-intelligent processes. Non-life produced life. Altruism is an evolutionary mistake. Albeit Darwinism presupposes non-reason produced reason, reason should be used to make Darwinism seem reasonable (the critics are unreasonable). Albeit Darwinism is based on the premise that very complicated systems were produced via the random interactions of very basic elements, it should be overlooked that even basic building blocks of life’s (like the cell’s or biological systems at the micro level’s) sheer complexity have not and cannot be sufficiently explained through Darwinist evolutionary analysis.



As you can tell, it takes a whole lot of faith to believe in Darwinism despite all of these paradoxes.


Having a relationship with God is nonetheless not about the reasoning of your brain, it's about your heart. Jesus said, "Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God." The biggest "proof" of the legitimacy of Jesus Christ is the transformations of millions of people's lives and hearts, starting with the Apostles. The Apostles spent all their time with Jesus. They knew firsthand if He was the real deal or a fake. When Jesus was crucified, something they didn't see coming until Jesus told them of His fate, they were very disappointed. Even Peter, the leader of the Apostles, denied knowing Jesus after He was arrested. Imagine watching your friend or being aware that your friend is going to be tortured to death. It had to have been a very dark and depressing period for all of the Apostles. Yet, fastforward a short time and they are traveling the earth and preaching and teaching the Good News of the Risen Lord! Disappointed people DON'T DO THAT. Something real happened to them between Jesus' death and their preaching of the Gospels to the world: they saw the Risen Lord! As a great example, read about Saul's conversion. They went on to dedicate their lives to God even to their deaths.



Maybe as a start in your journey, read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel and then let your friend read it. It helped me when I was first learning about Christianity. He also wrote a book called "The Case for a Creator" that I'd recommend.


In Christ,

John

 

[AvgJoe]

2. Bible (new testement), is man made, man wrote the bible so there for it can be wrong, have short comings, be exageratted, or biased in its view on any subject. It is also thousands of years old before the dawn of science so there for making uneducated statments.

The Bible was written over a period of 1,600 years, by 40 God chosen men, who lived on 3 different continents and they all wrote about the same thing, the Gospel of Christ. There were no mail delivery trucks, no drop ship planes, no Federal Express, no UPS and no email, yet when all of the writings were put together they present one unified message. How could this be? Because the Bible is truly the Word of God.

If the Bible is true, Christianity is true. How much research has your friend done on proving the validity of the Bible? Following are some topics and links I hope she will look into, concerning the validity of the Bible. Please lay your doubt aside and proceed with an open mind, and heart, and see what the evidence has to say.

An excellent ebook on the subject: http://www.apologeticspress.org/pdfs/e-books_pdf/idobi.pdf

Proof of Textual Evidence
Old Testament: http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/266
New Testament: http://www.carm.org/questions/textualevidence.htm
More on the Bible: http://www.carm.org/bible.htm

Proof of People Living at the Time of Christ
http://www.carm.org/questions/extrabiblical_accounts.htm
http://www.carm.org/questions/Josephus.htm
http://www.probe.org/site/apps/nlnet/content.aspx?c=fdKEIMNsEoG&b=4282487&content_id={005E52EB-F7CA-4F87-BC5E-E5D53148B439}&notoc=1

Proof of Archaeology
http://www.christiananswers.net/archaeology/home.html
http://www.biblicalarcheology.net/
http://www.carm.org/questions/evidence_archaeological.htm

Proof of Science
Statements Consistent With Paleontology
Statements Consistent With Astronomy
Statements Consistent With Meteorology
Statements Consistent With Biology
Statements Consistent With Anthropology
Statements Consistent With Hydrology
Statements Consistent With Geology
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml
http://www.carm.org/bible/ms_science.htm

Proof of Prophecy (Messanic & dealing with nations)
http://www.sotl.org/public/proofs.htm (about Israel-incredible)
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/m_prophecies.shtml
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/fulfill.shtml
http://www.carm.org/bible/prophecy.htm
http://www.prophecyrevealed.com/index.html
http://prophecyrevealed.com/friendbook.htm (awesome book)
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

If the Bible is true, Christianity is true. In Christianity, faith is required but it does not have to be a blind faith.

 

[oi_antz]

The only way to know God is to trust Him. Since your friend does not know God, she can only trust mankind. Here is my best effort to portray the truth as I understand it:

1. She has never asked Him to reveal Himself to her, or has done so with a faint heart - not ready or not willing (I would presume she has chosen the antichrist instead of Christ). Whatever you choose to believe (athiesm is an option), it is not relevant to the fact that God had a vision and created our existence with a purpose to marvel at it and Love it.

2. The message we derive from any piece of art is extremely personal due to all the laws of communication. I suggest she is getting the wrong message because she has not prayed to God to receive the right message.

3. Ditto #2, I don't receive that message from the Bible, I would like to see the passages she refers to I could offer my personal insight.

4. Religion will lead your life, faith will not. Your friend has a hard time understanding the meaning of free will. To be eligible for everlasting life you need only to believe that Jesus is Christ, the son of God and when He came 2,000 years ago He allowed Himself to be killed by people who couldn't understand His message of Love. You don't need to go to church or read the Bible or follow His commands, only to believe that He is who we know Him to be.

5. Yes, that is religion, not faith. There is a HUGE difference and neither are related.

6. That isn't relevant to who Jesus is. Was it commanded to mankind in the Holy Bible?

7. That is the people who don't know what God says, instead they only know what mankind says and that will almost certainly give you the wrong message!

8. I am a born again Christian with understanding imparted to me by God and I do believe in evolution and the prospect that mankind as we know it has evolved from apes. I will be happy to explain this on the phone to your friend.

9. You won't get it unless you know the true story. Dinosaurs DID exist in a period of evolution before mankind was introduced to the world.

10. OK that is fine to believe, but you still miss the point: the wonderful artist that gave you everything you adore in life has sent His son so that you can simply believe the story and you will find yourself in Heaven when the answers you seek are finally disclosed to you.

God bless, and don't hesitate to PM me if you need more help here, it's my pleasure to serve God on these matters

 

[oi_antz]

so lets start by stating that God is Sovereign. so whether anyone including your friend believes in him or not.. He will never change.. He is.. [...] just brush on the edges and leave them wanting more and more. sounds crazy but its an awesome way to help your friends become christians.. [...] but please, be wise enough to let the Lord pick the time and date.. He know the precise time.. and then when it happens.. you can just smile and thank God for picking you to be a part of her conversion.. its going to be awesome..

Thats a very bold statement to make on behalf of God. If you have been told to say that by God I will ask to see the passage He gave you which says you should be making these statements. This world provides us a whole lifetime to accept God, but it is NOT God who has chosen His people, it is the people who have chosen Him. Of those who choose Him, He has specified their role.

I have doubts eggsbaconandbeans whether your message here is ordained by God, are you so sure you are right to postpone this person's access to every piece of truth they require?

 

[Peripatetic]

The Bible does not give us an exact template for how to witness/evangelize because each person responds differently to various approaches. Egg's method of easing into it and letting your actions speak for you at first can be very effective for some recipients. For many, the full-on conversion intervention can have exactly the opposite effect. People with the gift of evangelism seem to have a knack for finding just the right approach.

 

[Test All Things2]

Newfaith2010,

God bless you for your concern about your friend.

Your friend needs to be prepared (to have her heart softened and opened) by the Holy Spirit. All the talking and best sounding arguments in the world cannot save her. Sometimes these things can drive a person even farther from finding the true God.

But there is great hope for your friend!

Go to the throne of our gracious King and ask him to send the Holy Spirit to minister to her. Pray God himself would open her eyes to his truth. When the Holy Spirit moves on a person things CAN BE DRASTICALLY CHANGED IN A PERSONS LIFE!

Praise GOD! Give him the GLORY!

God loves your friend dearly and wants her in his kingdom. Ask him to go and minister to her through the presence and POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT. Ask God to reveal himself to her and help her find her way out of the chaos in her life.

I want and ask you to have FAITH that God WILL DO THIS for your friend. Believe..please belive for the sake of your friend that God will move powerfully in her life to bring about a change, and that change will be the recognition of her sinfullness before the Holy God, and her need of salvation through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Ask God to bring powerful realization of the sin in your friends life and the resulting conviction of her need for a saviour (Jesus). Ask God to give her the courage and strength to embrace what is righteous and holy in her life and to forsake what is evil, sinful or wicked.

Pray for God to surround her and protect her from Satan and the evil ones. Pray for God's holy mighty warring angels to always surround and protect her from all evil and harm. Pray for God's Holy Spirit to nuture her and sustain her.

Pray and believe!

 

[Sketcher]

1. I do not say there is no God, I just do not have proof that there is so I will not live my life based on a belief.

I'm not sure how well that really holds up. We all have some beliefs, and live our lives according to them. And some of those beliefs aren't proven by hard evidence, they're just beliefs.

2. Bible (new testement), is man made, man wrote the bible so there for it can be wrong, have short comings, be exageratted, or biased in its view on any subject. It is also thousands of years old before the dawn of science so there for making uneducated statments.

The New Testament is one of the most accurate and consistent ancient texts there is. It was written mere decades after Christ walked the earth, with many living witnesses still alive at the time - while other accepted works of ancient history weren't written until hundreds of years after the fact. And there are literally thousands of copies of the NT spanning from the Early Church era to the medieval era, which all match in the substance of what they teach. Writing it off as an inaccurate, corrupt, or otherwise unreliable text is a very uneducated statement.

3. Bible (old testement), clearly states that all gentiles (none jews) are not the chosen people and are going to hell. So the fact that christians still use this bible when it clearly states they are not whom it is for annoys me.

The Old Testament does not teach that all Gentiles are going to Hell. Most Jews will tell you this. Now, the Old Testament has certain roles which it plays in the instruction of the Gentile Christian, but I find that obstinate unbelievers don't have the patience for actually learning the way we're supposed to look at it. Yet, they're more than happy to take their shots at us.

There is also the fact that christians do not believe people should be gay I find it disgusting and horrible that anyone be excluded or made to feel bad about them selves because of who they are when they are not hurting anyone.

Homosexuality is just the fashionable sin to throw in the church's face right now. There are lots of other sins that people are liable to commit that to them, feel good, but are sin anyway. Homosexuality is not special.

4. Other Religions- which one is right can you say your religion is the right religion? NO because there is no proof. So this brings me back to not going to lead my life based on one religion when there is no proof to only find out that it is the wrong one.

Sounds like this person will have the same conundrum when she dies, to be honest.

5. Changes- religions have changed to suit people lives protestants used to be chatholics, free protestant (paisley iris robinson) decided as a man with their bias and opions to develop a religion and tell people this is how they are to lead their lives.

Given what she said about the Bible and homosexuality, I would think that she would welcome changes rather than disparage them. But it's not as though those kinds of changes are the ones that officially happened in the church anyway. Catholic to Protestant happened because Martin Luther spoke out against corruption that had crept into the Catholic Church, and the Pope wouldn't hear a word of it. Now, in England, it's a different story as Henry VIII split with Rome because he was selfish and wanted to divorce/marry has he saw fit, but that's not the origin of Protestantism itself.

6. All Religion- it is not just christianity Muslims in parts of africa cut off a womens [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] as they belive it is what their god wants.. you say this is wrong but they believe it is not but is their belief.

It's not commanded in Scripture, so it's not a holy thing at all.

7. Cherry Picking- I have never met anyone that follows the bible to the last letter, so they have no room for judgment yet they will picket gay perades and try to stop other people having their religious freedoms.

Again, one would think that someone who doesn't think homosexuality is wrong wouldn't mind cherry picking. But Christians are not to do that, and those who rightly divide the Old and New Testaments do not cherry pick. But people like your friend don't have the patience for what it is to rightly divide Scripture. They just want to take their shots without understanding.

8. Most christians as other religions do not believe in evolution. I think That is rediculous as there is proof of this.

And there are Christians who do believe in it.

9. They belive the dinisaurs are here to test us. (just cant explain it in thier timeline)

Correction, only a few do.

10. I can never be a christian, muslim and or any religion as I believe people should love and help everyone no matter what; there should be no judgment placed unless you hurt someone which is why we have laws. I think that people belive in a god and afterlife because they are to scared to face thier mortality, how small they are in comparison to the universe and the fact that they have no answers. I believe people who have no self control or direction in life also grab onto religion as it gives them structure that they need.

Sounds like a lot of judgment aimed at people who don't hurt anyone.

It sounds like this friend is not an honest seeker, but she instead has an ignorant spirit. People like that are content to be ignorant and speak abusively towards the faith. All you can really do is pray for her, and be a good example. You live for God, not for her, but as you live for God, she will see the light that you're shining and someday she'll have to deal with it. Praying for her in the meantime will eventually melt away those walls to her heart and then maybe the answers to these objections will actually do her some good.

 

[oi_antz]

All you can really do is pray for her, and be a good example. You live for God, not for her, but as you live for God, she will see the light that you're shining and someday she'll have to deal with it. Praying for her in the meantime will eventually melt away those walls to her heart and then maybe the answers to these objections will actually do her some good.

I would argue that the prayers have taken effect already and that her enquiry demonstrates the melting of the heart and now this person is at the stage of seeking answers to her questions, do not forsake the needs of your brethren.

Proverbs 9
7 "Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult;
whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse.
8 Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you;
rebuke a wise man and he will love you.



I would not give these answers in the spirit of truth if I had not detected this person had been wise to ask those questions with a spirit seeking truth.


May wisdom abound as you fight the enemy to bring truth to your friends life. Lord give us strength, Amen.

 

[Zebra1552]

My friend...an atheist...has given me her list as to why she doesnt believe in God, and I would like to be able o talk through her reasons with her with logical answers so Im just wondering if anyone would help me out here!!so im going to post them up here to get some assistance with this as I'm very new to Christianity - not sure I can give the "right" answers at the minute

here goes...

1. I do not say there is no God, I just do not have proof that there is so I will not live my life based on a belief.

Just because your friend doesn't have proof doesn't mean none exists. Evidence That Demands a Verdict might help you there.

2. Bible (new testement), is man made, man wrote the bible so there for it can be wrong, have short comings, be exageratted, or biased in its view on any subject. It is also thousands of years old before the dawn of science so there for making uneducated statments.

Okay, so where are these shortcomings and errors?

3. Bible (old testement), clearly states that all gentiles (none jews) are not the chosen people and are going to hell. So the fact that christians still use this bible when it clearly states they are not whom it is for annoys me. There is also the fact that christians do not believe people should be gay I find it disgusting and horrible that anyone be excluded or made to feel bad about them selves because of who they are when they are not hurting anyone.

Did he actually quote a Bible verse? Not even Christians can agree on the issue of homosexuality. Most believe that it is the gay sex that is wrong, while the attractions are not... some take the extremes of the issue and say it is not or all of it is a sin. Being gay isn't something you have a choice over, acting on those temptations- that we do have control over. The OT never says that all Gentiles are going to hell.

4. Other Religions- which one is right can you say your religion is the right religion? NO because there is no proof. So this brings me back to not going to lead my life based on one religion when there is no proof to only find out that it is the wrong one.

There's plenty to support the credibility of Christianity and debunk other religions. Lee Strobel, Josh McDowell are good authors in that regard. Or, if you're really ambitious, Craig Blomberg.

5. Changes- religions have changed to suit people lives protestants used to be chatholics, free protestant (paisley iris robinson) decided as a man with their bias and opions to develop a religion and tell people this is how they are to lead their lives.

That's a very shallow understanding of Christianity. Church History is much more complex than that.

6. All Religion- it is not just christianity Muslims in parts of africa cut off a womens [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] as they belive it is what their god wants.. you say this is wrong but they believe it is not but is their belief.

That doesn't prove anything as an argument.

7. Cherry Picking- I have never met anyone that follows the bible to the last letter, so they have no room for judgment yet they will picket gay perades and try to stop other people having their religious freedoms.

Then he hasn't met me. I don't picket, and I hold very consistent theology. Bible interpretation is key to understanding what the Bible says, and that must be understood before it can be followed.

8. Most christians as other religions do not believe in evolution. I think That is rediculous as there is proof of this.

That's a very ignorant statement made by your friend. There are many Christians who are theistic evolutionists and believe God used evolution to create the world. It's an issue that's very, very minor.

9. They belive the dinisaurs are here to test us. (just cant explain it in thier timeline)

Um... that's beside the point.

10. I can never be a christian, muslim and or any religion as I believe people should love and help everyone no matter what; there should be no judgment placed unless you hurt someone which is why we have laws. I think that people belive in a god and afterlife because they are to scared to face thier mortality, how small they are in comparison to the universe and the fact that they have no answers. I believe people who have no self control or direction in life also grab onto religion as it gives them structure that they need.

That's what he believes, then so be it. Christianity isn't about being judgmental, it's about love and serving others no matter what. Just this afternoon I paid for the person behind me in the drive through. Your friend should really get out more.

Every answers welcome... ones from other atheists as well - to see if these are what you guys thing too?!

Thank you!!

Actually, they're not welcome. This is a Christian-only section of the board.

Which argument makes least sense??!!

3, 6, 8, and 9 make the least sense and have the least (if any) validity.

 

[oi_antz]

i am merely stating that there is a better approach and that being to display the qualities of servanthood. please clarify what about the post would you have me change..

I would change not that which I trust, and we all thank you for agreement, we are each doing our bit here.

 

[oi_antz]

i am merely stating that there is a better approach and that and i am certain that the pressures of todays schoolyards and after school hangouts would be almost enough to quench any new christians spirit..

My opinion is that simply making that decision it has come to be when the time is right, bless YOU!

 

[Zebra1552]

Guys, the only debate or discussion that should be going on is between the OP and the responders, not between responders.

 

[JELIEL]

My friend...an atheist...has given me her list as to why she doesnt believe in God, and I would like to be able o talk through her reasons with her with logical answers so Im just wondering if anyone would help me out here!!so im going to post them up here to get some assistance with this as I'm very new to Christianity - not sure I can give the "right" answers at the minute

1. I do not say there is no God, I just do not have proof that there is so I will not live my life based on a belief.

First I will ask your friend to explain a little bit more what he means by “God”. But lets assume that he means “God” the same way we called our God.

He does not have any proof that there is a God, but he does not have any proof either that God does not exist, so why not being on the safe side and belief that God exist. If when he die he found out that he was right and God does not exist, well nothing lost, if on the other hand when he die, he found out that God does exist, wouldn’t he feel relief to be on the right side.

Proof? What type of proof id he looking for? Everything you see around you is a Manifestation of God, created by God.

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said. For we are also his offspring. Acts17:28

Imaging a fish bowl full of water with a golden fish inside, the fish lives and breathes and moves in the water, he (fish) has his being in the water (God)

2. Bible (new testement), is man made, man wrote the bible so there for it can be wrong, have short comings, be exageratted, or biased in its view on any subject. It is also thousands of years old before the dawn of science so there for making uneducated statments.

There is a little of truth in what you friend said. Yes the Bible was man written. God has inspired men to do so, and therefore that has allowed for human interpretation. Because of this it can’t be taken literally, as much of it was symbolic, in parables and also Metaphysical.

You see the process of translation, while sometimes we can’t see any obvious differences in meaning between the various stages in the translation, there are often differences in the words used to convey the meaning. So it is very important to know and to chose very carefully which Bible you are using for study as some are not “translations” but “interpretations”

A translation tries to bring over into the new language every word from the original, this is seldom possible if the translations are to make sense to the reader, and therefore the “interpretations” are concerned only with conveying the meaning according to the translator interpretation, and interpretations are subjective.

3. Bible (old testement), clearly states that all gentiles (none jews) are not the chosen people and are going to hell. So the fact that christians still use this bible when it clearly states they are not whom it is for annoys me. There is also the fact that christians do not believe people should be gay I find it disgusting and horrible that anyone be excluded or made to feel bad about themselves because of who they are when they are not hurting anyone.

As I mention above it is very important to know and to chose very carefully which Bible you are using for study as some are not “translations” but “interpretations”

There are more than 33000 Christian denominations, not all them belief gay people are disgusting, however I don’t think is the “gay” part to what some Christian object, but more their behaviour.

I have worked with some gay people who were wonderful, I also worked with some “gay exhibitionists” that were not so nice and found their exhibitionists behaviour on the border of offensive. I surely did not want any child to witness that.

So, good behaviour, manners and morals are not only for Christian but for Atheist as well. I am quite sure your friend will have some people in his list that he avoids to be with, because he does not enjoy being in their surroundings.

4. Other Religions- which one is right can you say your religion is the right religion? NO because there is no proof. So this brings me back to not going to lead my life based on one religion when there is no proof to only find out that it is the wrong one.

Religions are labels; humans like to label everything and put it in a box. All the religions can be right or wrong, is the “Message” you have to look for.

“Truth” is old. You can’t reproduce antiques, you may copy the structure but antiques are old not new. You may pack “Truth” in a new box, but “Truth is old. Any message of “Love” – “Gods Love” is “Truth”.

5. Changes- religions have changed to suit people lives protestants used to be chatholics, free protestant (paisley iris robinson) decided as a man with their bias and opions to develop a religion and tell people this is how they are to lead their lives.

No argument there, complete agree with your friend. If this were not true, we will not have as many denominations as we have.

6. All Religion- it is not just christianity Muslims in parts of africa cut off a womens [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] as they belive it is what their god wants.. you say this is wrong but they believe it is not but is their belief.

You can’t blame ignorance on all Christians. Ignorant people are in all ways of life and races. Religions just happen to have more of them.

7. Cherry Picking- I have never met anyone that follows the bible to the last letter, so they have no room for judgment yet they will picket gay perades and try to stop other people having their religious freedoms.

Yes there are some Christians who take the Bible literally to the last letter. Other religions take their sacred Text to the letter as well. That does not mean the message is wrong, just lack of understanding.

Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not?

8. Most christians as other religions do not believe in evolution. I think That is rediculous as there is proof of this.

You have to tell your friend to stop generalizing. Evolution and change is a fact. Change is constant; the only think that does not change is change itself. So when you friend talk about evolution what exactly does he mean by? Does he mean the Darwin theory? or the creation of the world? Etc.

9. They belive the dinisaurs are here to test us. (just cant explain it in thier timeline)

Who believes Dinosaurs are here to test us?

10. I can never be a christian, muslim and or any religion as I believe people should love and help everyone no matter what; Bravo there should be no judgment placed unless you hurt someone which is why we have laws. Bravo I think that people belive in a god and afterlife because they are to scared to face thier mortality, Some not all how small they are in comparison to the universe and the fact that they have no answers. I believe people who have no self control or direction in life also grab onto religion as it gives them structure that they need. Some not all

Every answers welcome... ones from other atheists as well - to see if these are what you guys thing too?!

 

[Enginseer]

All great answers I'm seeing, just tell her that if she's a Christian then she goes to heaven, however if she's an Atheist then she just dies.

I think the choice is pretty obvious =D

 

[insurchoftruth]

Acts – 5:38, 39

1. Through the centuries, there have been always true believers in the whole world who have kept and preserved the Gospel in its originality, because they feared God, and because they appreciated very much the Gospel. When a person finds something precious he tries to keep it because it is precious to him."
2. The commandments - ‘do not still, do not kill, do not lie, and, other commandments of God, are written (coded) on the heart (consciousness) of every human being, even those living in the jungle, who have never seen civilization or the Bible. Moral laws can be created and come from a moral Being - God. Man did not create the ten commandments, because, if he did, he could change them as it suits him and, would not feel guilty for doing sin! The moral laws are independent from men.
3. The creation of man, the earth and the universe, display the wisdom, love, goodness, order, purpose, design, and the beauty of God, which he has placed in them!
The Bible is like a manual with instructions from God for us, to know where we came from, what to do on earth, and where we will go, in the future. It is like a person having a car, and manual with instructions. To have a car is not enough in order to know, how to drive or repair and maintain it. You can try and drive or repair your car without a manual, and may be succeed to some degree. But the manual gives you all the detailed instructions for everything you need to know about driving or repairing your car. It is similar with God, his creation and the Bible. We can know God and some of his attributes by just observing the creation, and the thing that he made. But the Bible gives us much more information about God, more than the creation gives us.
4. The miracles from God like speaking in tongues, healing and others, are another prove and confirmation from God, for the existence of God and that the Bible is true - (Hebrews 2:3,4, Acts 2:22, 14:3, 16:26-30, Mark 16:17, 20, John 2:11,23, 3:2, 4:48, 6:2, 10:25, 38, 11:45, 14:11, 20:30,31, Luke 10:13)! Some of the miracles, in the Old Testament, and which Jesus did, in the New Testament, were not to help or heal people, but only to show and prove, that God is real, and that His Word is real, and also, to show His glory, like the miracle of Jesus walking on the water, for example.
5. The Bible is a historical book, describing historical people and places, and proves itself, to be true!
6. There are many Christian (Church history) and secular, non Christian materials and books, written in the life time of Jesus and the Apostles, which speak about Jesus and the Apostles and the first Christians during the 1, 2, 3 and later centuries. Some of them are written by Roman historians, who saw Jesus or the Apostles, and wrote about them, even though, they themselves, were not Christians. For example the book - „Quo Vadis Domine.“ Also, the archives of the Roman emperors in the time of Jesus, describe the person of Jesus Christ.
7. The prophecies about Jesus and Israel in the O. Testament, and other prophecies in the Bible are fulfilled! In 1948 Israel was miraculously formed as a nation again! - Deuteronomy 28:64, Ezekiel 36:24, Isaiah 7:14, 9:6-7, 53:4-
8. There are much more documents (manuscripts) about the New Testament in the world, than they are for any other ancient literature! - Josh McDowell
9. The calendar, is another proof about the historical person of Jesus, because it starts, from the birth of Jesus.
10 . The conversion (born again experience) of even the toughest criminals, is the greatest miracle itself ( Nicky Cruz). Also, the immediate deliverance from God, of people who use drugs and are drug addicts, is another miracle.
11 . There is not a proof yet, that the Bible is not true. There have been many people through the history, which have tried to prove that the Bible is not true, but they could not, and some of them even have become Christians, while investigating the Bible.
12 . Archeology, also proves the accounts in the Bible.
13 . There are many famous scientists, and philosophers, that believe in God!
14 . The existence of the Jewish nation and its history, is a proof of the Bible.
15 . The Apostles according to history, were killed, because of their believe, that Jesus is God, and he rose from the dead. No body will die for a lie.
16 . Only twelve ordinary men, turned the whole Roman empire and the world upside down, and changed it, by the Gospel.
17 . The presence (the anointing) of God, and his power and love, is not just knowledge in the head, but it can be experienced and felt very realistically -(John 7:38, 39, Romans 8:16).
18. The Bible is made of many books which have been written in 1600 years period! It is written from about 50 authors, which were living on different continents and in different countries, and spoke different languages, and had different professions. But the whole Bible has one common point, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ.
19. God cares for his Word, and has made sure, that trough all the centuries, his Word will be preserved and kept in its originality!
20. All living beings – plants, animals and humans, have something which is common to them all, like a blood system, respiratory system, nerve system, digestive system, which shows, that they came from the same source – God.
21. The fact that people from different races, can marry and have children, proves that people from all different races, came from the same source, or the same parents, Adam and Eve, otherwise, if they did not, they would not be able, to produce children.
22. Years ago, people did not believe that the earth was round, but that does not mean, that the earth is not round. Therefore, if some people, do not believe in God, or his miracles, it does not mean, that he does not exist or that there are no miracles. Today, there are many people who do not believe in speaking in tongues, or healing from God, even among Christians, but there are about 600 000 people globally, who speak in tongues, and there are thousands of people who are healed from God.
23. You can experience love, but you can not explain it. It is similar with God. You can get an experience from him, but you can not explain it. There are many things in this life, which can be experienced, but can not be explained. It does not mean, that they are not real.
24. When Jesus said that he is the Life (the life of God), he was really mad, or he really was, who he claimed to be, and there is no other option.

25. We can not see wind, but we can see its results, effects, and we can experience it. It is similar with God