God is not real because.... HELP

[Newfaith2010]

My friend...an atheist...has given me her list as to why she doesnt believe in God, and I would like to be able o talk through her reasons with her with logical answers so Im just wondering if anyone would help me out here!!so im going to post them up here to get some assistance with this as I'm very new to Christianity - not sure I can give the "right" answers at the minute

here goes...

1. I do not say there is no God, I just do not have proof that there is so I will not live my life based on a belief.

2. Bible (new testement), is man made, man wrote the bible so there for it can be wrong, have short comings, be exageratted, or biased in its view on any subject. It is also thousands of years old before the dawn of science so there for making uneducated statments.

3. Bible (old testement), clearly states that all gentiles (none jews) are not the chosen people and are going to hell. So the fact that christians still use this bible when it clearly states they are not whom it is for annoys me. There is also the fact that christians do not believe people should be gay I find it disgusting and horrible that anyone be excluded or made to feel bad about them selves because of who they are when they are not hurting anyone.

4. Other Religions- which one is right can you say your religion is the right religion? NO because there is no proof. So this brings me back to not going to lead my life based on one religion when there is no proof to only find out that it is the wrong one.

5. Changes- religions have changed to suit people lives protestants used to be chatholics, free protestant (paisley iris robinson) decided as a man with their bias and opions to develop a religion and tell people this is how they are to lead their lives.

6. All Religion- it is not just christianity Muslims in parts of africa cut off a womens [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] as they belive it is what their god wants.. you say this is wrong but they believe it is not but is their belief.

7. Cherry Picking- I have never met anyone that follows the bible to the last letter, so they have no room for judgment yet they will picket gay perades and try to stop other people having their religious freedoms.

8. Most christians as other religions do not believe in evolution. I think That is rediculous as there is proof of this.

9. They belive the dinisaurs are here to test us. (just cant explain it in thier timeline)

10. I can never be a christian, muslim and or any religion as I believe people should love and help everyone no matter what; there should be no judgment placed unless you hurt someone which is why we have laws. I think that people belive in a god and afterlife because they are to scared to face thier mortality, how small they are in comparison to the universe and the fact that they have no answers. I believe people who have no self control or direction in life also grab onto religion as it gives them structure that they need.


Every answers welcome... ones from other atheists as well - to see if these are what you guys thing too?!

Thank you!!



Which argument makes least sense??!!

 

[1Prophetess]

Answering those I can:

1. If you say that you have no proof, why don't you seek to see if you can find proof? If there is a God, and if S/He expects something of you, wouldn't you be better off finding out what it is? If you don't, and if you're wrong, what will be the price you have to pay? You can say, "A loving God won't do that." Is God all loving? If He has rules, and He expects you to follow them, and you don't, do you really think He will say, "Who cares if you broke my rules all your life?" If you want to be sure you are right, you need to learn what the religions say before you can say you are right. You can't just put a sack over your head and say trees don't exist because I can't see them.

2. 2 Tim 3: 16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness..." It is not man made.

3. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosever believes on Him should not perish but have everlasting life." Anyone can come to God!

4. Proof that it works can't be stated by someone who hasn't tried it. The only way to prove it is not real is to try it. Try reading only the red words (the Words of Jesus) in the Bible. See if you have doubts about being right then.

5. Religion is not God. The Bible is God's word. Hear the Bible not a religion created by men.

6. So we know that you wouldn't want to join that religion (if you don't think it is right). All religions make mistakes. Refer to God's word. I see nothing in God's word that he says a woman [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] should be cut.

7. The Bible says in Luke 6:37 "[ Judging Others ] "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." Christians are wrong to judge. However, they should have an individual right to free speech. If they don't believe that a thing is right, they have a right to picket it.

8. Define evolution. We can see that dogs have evolved into many breeds. That, in a sense, is evolution. But the evolution that most Christians don't believe in is the one that says we came from monkeys. If you want to believe your family tree started as a monkey, so be it. I don't.

9. This is new to me. I have no idea about this one at all. "They" don't believe that. I'm a Christian, and I've never heard it in the decades that I've been a Christian.

10: Romans 13:8 says "Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law." The Bible teaches exactly what you believe. So it reflects your ideas!

And, finally, if I'm wrong about there being a God and that I have to believe in Him, then I will live a good life and die as a decent person. But if you're wrong, and I'm right and you go to hell, you will spend eternity wishing you'd reconsidered. The only chance you have to make a decision is while you are here, alive. After death, it is too late. Do you really want to find out after death that you should have found out now? I wouldn't. But God gives everyone a free will to decide. It is yours to use--either plan your way to heaven or fall into hell for lack of planning.

 

[Darren85]

I didnt believe, or rather to put it better - I never stopped to think much about faith and god before. I have always lived my life correctly and never been a bad person or ever got into trouble. But then I just found god, I gave up smoking over a year ago and I do not miss that one bit, as with my life before I found god. I simply do not miss it, It was a nice life, fun, happy, but now I have a new life under god, and I cant give you proof of him. I can just feel him in my life and in my heart.

I only hope that your friend finds god and finds the love he has for us all.

 

[Hakan101]

I would like to say that while man wrote the Bible, it was done through God the way a man writes with a quill. God said that his word was eternal and unchanging, so although we are not certain that it has not been edited (perhaps the context has been mistranslated), we should have faith in God and believe Him that his word still exists as it did then.

Also, evolution has not been proven, it is just a highly supported theory. While I do think evolution can explain some things (such as dogs as Prophetess has said), it says in the Bible that God created man in His image. You could believe that just as much as another could believe they were descended from apes.

 

[jkryle]

1. I do not say there is no God, I just do not have proof that there is so I will not live my life based on a belief.

There are over 16 ancient "non-Christan" sources for Christ. PM me for the source because I can't post web links because I don't have enough posts.
If your friend has a problem with Josephus then tell your friend this:

"By far and away, the bulk of modern scholarship accepts that Josephus makes two independent references to Jesus--to argue otherwise requires the objector to dismantle the historical consensus, and this requires argumentation instead of simple assertion (and disallowance of Josephus as a witness!). One of the leading scholars, translators, and commentators on Josephus is Steve Mason. In his book on Josephus and the New Testament (Hendrickson:1992), he discusses the two references to Jesus in Josephus' writings, and concludes that "if it were needed", they would provide independent testimony to the existence of Jesus."

2. Bible (new testement), is man made, man wrote the bible so there for it can be wrong, have short comings, be exageratted, or biased in its view on any subject. It is also thousands of years old before the dawn of science so there for making uneducated statments.

Men were moved by the Spirit of God to write. I don't see how it can be biased when Paul wrote that he was the chief of sinners. It's not old, it's eternal and still helps us today.

3. Bible (old testement), clearly states that all gentiles (none jews) are not the chosen people and are going to hell. So the fact that christians still use this bible when it clearly states they are not whom it is for annoys me. There is also the fact that christians do not believe people should be gay I find it disgusting and horrible that anyone be excluded or made to feel bad about them selves because of who they are when they are not hurting anyone.

Your friend is taking things out of context. In the New Testament God came to the Jews and sent Paul to the Gentiles. The Jews rejected Christ and that's when Christ used Paul to go to the Gentiles.
Being gay is a deadly. The diseases they have are because of their lifestyle is disgusting and horrible. The mans parts are for the woman parts. The mans parts are not made for another man.
We tell them the truth because they are walking off a cliff, the cliff of homosexuality.

4. Other Religions- which one is right can you say your religion is the right religion? NO because there is no proof. So this brings me back to not going to lead my life based on one religion when there is no proof to only find out that it is the wrong one.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but through me."
Either Jesus was lying or telling the truth. Since He rose from the dead that's enough proof.

5. Changes- religions have changed to suit people lives protestants used to be chatholics, free protestant (paisley iris robinson) decided as a man with their bias and opions to develop a religion and tell people this is how they are to lead their lives.

I'd tell your friend to stay away from religions and hang with Christ. Christ never changes.

6. All Religion- it is not just christianity Muslims in parts of africa cut off a womens [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] as they belive it is what their god wants.. you say this is wrong but they believe it is not but is their belief.

7. Cherry Picking- I have never met anyone that follows the bible to the last letter, so they have no room for judgment yet they will picket gay perades and try to stop other people having their religious freedoms.

Your friend is out of context again.

8. Most christians as other religions do not believe in evolution. I think That is rediculous as there is proof of this.

Something cannot come from nothing. Nothing cannot create something.
There has been no observable specie changes. There aren't even thousands of transitional fossils that have been found which would be around if there were evolution.

9. They belive the dinisaurs are here to test us. (just cant explain it in thier timeline).

That's just a petty argument that shouldn't even be talked about.
Men and dinosaurs walked together.

10. I can never be a christian, muslim and or any religion as I believe people should love and help everyone no matter what; there should be no judgment placed unless you hurt someone which is why we have laws. I think that people belive in a god and afterlife because they are to scared to face thier mortality, how small they are in comparison to the universe and the fact that they have no answers. I believe people who have no self control or direction in life also grab onto religion as it gives them structure that they need.

That's what real Christians do, they love. It was the communistic atheist that didn't love people. They killed more people in 50 years than anyone in history.

 

[heron]

The dinosaurs are here to test us? I hope it will not be a pop quiz.

She gave you a list, but try to hear what her spirit is saying. She seems to be feeling oppressed by people, and does not agree with the idea that she needs to follow others' standards just because they say she does.

Be careful of answering questions you're not sure of. It is okay to say you don't know, especially if you are new to Christianity. Sometimes the things agnostics get upset over were rationalizations Christians made up to cover an answer quickly.

Just let her talk. There is some venting she needs to do.

Remind her that because people cherry pick, Christianity appears different all over the world. So what people impose on others in her culture/region is different than how Christians in another culture/region behave. None are perfect, but all are trying to follow God in ways they believe to be appropriate.

About the OT saying non-Jews will go to hell... in fact, the OT says all people will rest under the earth.

The first use of the word "Hell" in the NT was the word for an incinerating area, where things were reduced to ash, not put into an eternal punishment. Dust to dust, ashes to ashes. Gone, not suffering eternal pain.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]Hell is the place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction. [/FONT]

The important thing is not the religion. It is facing the Originator of the universe on personal terms.

 

[sjdean]

My response would be along the lines of answering them according to my faith.

So this is my understanding.

Your friend may be put off by certain denominations or certain churches. Indeed, some have very heavy rules and regulations. The church that I go to is a Church of England/Anglican church which is really relaxed, but when you look at the doctrine behind it, it all makes sense from the point of view that Christianity is about holding no one else before God, and showing love to all. During the study of Galations we've been doing, Paul I understand Paul went mad at those who tried to introduce Jewish rules into free Christianity.

1) Your friend does nto wish to live her life based on a belief, but not believing, is also a belief, it is a belief that there is nothing out there.

Some people won't understand this principle, it is like the realisation that I came to that there must be something else out there because a world without a God doesn't make any sense. What's the point in learning everything just to die and forget it all. Many people use this as the reason to go out and live life to the full by getting drunk every weekend.

2) Of course the new testament, aren't there four gospels? Mark, Matthew, Luke and John backing each other up? And if we believe in Jesus, then we only have to read his teachings.

3) Of course, if you don't believe in God, then even the old testament is man made is it not? Seems incongruent to discredit the Old Testament because of XYZ and say it is divinely written while disregarding the New Testament as being man made.

Nevertheless, as a Christian, my take on gay people (and I suspect your friend just needs to find the right denomination that isn't so fundamental (or perhaps even more so), that it isn't gay people that are detested. Everybody should be loved. We may disagree with certain practices, and if we hold family life and children and what is required to make children - ie a man and a woman, and respect the sanctity of marriage, then I think we can understand why we may disagree with the gay lifestyle. But I don't think Christians should shun anybody.

Your friend probably has the opinion that ex-pedophiles or ex-murderers should be shunned, even if they have recovered. Your friend probably has the opinion that they can never rehabilitate themselves.

4) Your friend doesn't want to live her life under a false assumption. Good. But having nothing in their life means there is a 0% chance of salvation.

6) well I can't speak for other religions - certainly my assumption of Christianity is that it is love for all. Not quite sure how we can show love by mutilating somebody.

7) Sounds like an odd bunch of Christians to me. Doesn't sound very Christian.

8) Of course, if we believe in an all seeing all powerful God capable of everything, who is to say that the evidence we see of evolution is fatally flawed? Who is to say that our assumptions of science are correct. It's like if you look at a Red car, you only know its a red car because someone else has said, it's a red car. Im not suggesting there's no such thing as evolution, but I think with religion, we realise that you know what, anything can be possible.

10) The first bit pretty much described what I consider Christianity to be about about helping people no matter what.

 

[sbbqb7n16]

Yay This should be fun

My friend...an atheist...has given me her list as to why she doesnt believe in God, and I would like to be able o talk through her reasons with her with logical answers so Im just wondering if anyone would help me out here!!so im going to post them up here to get some assistance with this as I'm very new to Christianity - not sure I can give the "right" answers at the minute

here goes...

1. I do not say there is no God, I just do not have proof that there is so I will not live my life based on a belief.

The belief that "there is no god" is also a belief without proof. The Bible actually gives several examples of people asking God for things, and then they happen... which would indicate a causality. If there was no God to answer prayers, what caused the answer? (Think Jericho, Noah, Abraham and Sarah, Elijah, Jesus' ressurrection, Jesus' miracles)

The best proof is sort of an indirect proof. You can't see Him physically, but you can see the effects He has, and the things He does (usually in direct response to prayer, but not always). Jesus explained it this way:

"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
John 3:8

2. Bible (new testement), is man made, man wrote the bible so there for it can be wrong, have short comings, be exageratted, or biased in its view on any subject. It is also thousands of years old before the dawn of science so there for making uneducated statments.

Science textbooks are also man made, and written by men - so they may be wrong (the earth is flat), have shortcomings (what caused the big bang?), be exageratted (evolution), or biased (see evolution again).

Maybe we should throw them out too.

3. Bible (old testement), clearly states that all gentiles (none jews) are not the chosen people and are going to hell. So the fact that christians still use this bible when it clearly states they are not whom it is for annoys me. There is also the fact that christians do not believe people should be gay I find it disgusting and horrible that anyone be excluded or made to feel bad about them selves because of who they are when they are not hurting anyone.

Old Testament was also written by men, btw. But that's why we have the new testament. "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." - Matthew 5:17

4. Other Religions- which one is right can you say your religion is the right religion? NO because there is no proof. So this brings me back to not going to lead my life based on one religion when there is no proof to only find out that it is the wrong one.

See story of Elijah and the prophets of Baal.

Taste tester: "Well, I'm not sure which one of these drinks tastes like the real Coca-Cola, so they must all not be Coca-Cola."

ie. Just because you're not sure which one is real, doesn't mean that they're all fake.

5. Changes- religions have changed to suit people lives protestants used to be chatholics, free protestant (paisley iris robinson) decided as a man with their bias and opions to develop a religion and tell people this is how they are to lead their lives.

If by religion, she means "practice of a belief" then that's true that they change. As we better understand the truth, we are able to apply and practice it better. I don't see how that's a downside.

Protestants used to be Catholics, until someone learned more of the truth behind what was going on (ie. you cannot buy your way into heaven, etc.) So they broke off from people who were (at that time) abusing their power. I don't see how that's a downside either.

6. All Religion- it is not just christianity Muslims in parts of africa cut off a womens [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] as they belive it is what their god wants.. you say this is wrong but they believe it is not but is their belief.

See taste tester example. Something may be wrong, even if someone else doesn't think that it is. (ie. Hitler thought it was okay to murder tons and tons of Jews - which is clearly wrong, even though Hitler thought differently)

7. Cherry Picking- I have never met anyone that follows the bible to the last letter, so they have no room for judgment yet they will picket gay perades and try to stop other people having their religious freedoms.

Again, just because we are free to choose which religion we will follow, does not mean that all religions are the correct one.

You are always free to believe that 2+2=7 even though that's not true. Just like you are free to believe that homosexuality is okay, when that's not true.

And also just because you and I and everyone else in the world make mistakes, it doesn't mean that what's in the Bible isn't true. It just means that we don't follow it 100% of time - making US wrong, not the Bible.

8. Most christians as other religions do not believe in evolution. I think That is rediculous as there is proof of this.

The proof is biased - depending on your beliefs. There are several scientists who question the legitimacy of evolution. Here is one I just found. Took me like 5 seconds on Google.

The Scientific Case Against Evolution

9. They belive the dinisaurs are here to test us. (just cant explain it in thier timeline)

haha who believes that?

10. I can never be a christian, muslim and or any religion as I believe people should love and help everyone no matter what; there should be no judgment placed unless you hurt someone which is why we have laws. I think that people belive in a god and afterlife because they are to scared to face thier mortality, how small they are in comparison to the universe and the fact that they have no answers. I believe people who have no self control or direction in life also grab onto religion as it gives them structure that they need.

Love your enemies - Matthew 5:43-44
Help others in need (Good Samaritan) - Luke 10:29-37
Don't judge others - Matthew 7:1-5

Well we believe there is an afterlife, because we believe in God, and He says there is one. Again, we have no physical proof that there is a God, just like she doesn't have any proof that there isn't. There is no physical proof of spiritual things.

For example, show me the proof that you have thoughts. Well if you can't show me them, then you must not have them. So, I don't believe in thoughts.

Which argument makes least sense??!!

The ones that have to do with "well people believe all sorts of things, so none of them are true." Or the "people don't practice it all the time, so none of it is true." Those lines of thought are ridiculous.

 

[sjdean]

Im reminded of something else - faith is a very difficult thing to grasp with, and sadly, it just isn't for every body no matter how much we try and push it. Some people just don't get it.

I know I spent the first 20 years of life pretty much Godless until he found me, and my faith started to build and solidify and 10 years later I got baptised and Im just absolutely in shock and awe about how blind I was before.

It's easy to mock and question on the outside, but sometimes you just need to work through questions on your own and study and think for yourself. Perhaps it is a case though that if your friend makes the first move towards first of all opening their mind and attempting to integrate into a religion, then they will begin to see the things that happen.

The things I had to grasp with over my time were...

a) What caused the big bang?
b) How do you create something from nothing?
c) Where does God come from?
d) Does a world without God make sense?
e) Is there a creator?
f) Is that creator God?
g) How do I feel about that creator, what kind of creator do I think he is?
h) Do I believe in Jesus as being the son of God?
i) Ok, which Church do I join!

To me the idea of a world without a creator doesn't make any sense, that we all live, learn, and die. I realised that belief in a God actually gives me a lot of strength and helped me through some difficult times. When I started thinking in that vein, it was easier to see God. Personal revelation - and I think that is really important too, gave me a faith in Christ. Knowing that Christ is real pretty much narrowed my choice. Everything that's happened to me since has confirmed my choice.

 

[Jpark]

Never mind.

 

[1Prophetess]

It makes me very sad to hear "I do not say there is no God, I just do not have proof that there is so I will not live my life based on a belief." It makes me sad because my relationship with God is so wonderful, so special, and I trust Him with everything I have and everything I do. It is so sad to hear that a person would feel there could be not a God.

But the one thing that keeps rolling through my mind is that they are missing out on a wonderful relationship. It is so fulfilling, so comforting, so blessed, so peaceful, and so given over to peace. I can't imagine not being God's friend.

God is so loving to His children. He can do anything. He can provide anything. He has provided everlasting life.

The Message Bible says in John 3: 16-18 "This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be destroyed; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life. God didn't go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again. Anyone who trusts in him is acquitted; anyone who refuses to trust him has long since been under the death sentence without knowing it. And why? Because of that person's failure to believe in the one-of-a-kind Son of God when introduced to him." (Emphasis added)

Who would want to die and not feel secure in what would happen after that? Is death not real enough?

The other thing that I think when I hear this is how can you say that? Have you seen the Grand Canyon? If you have not, can you say: "I do not say there is no [Grand Canyon], I just do not have proof that there is so I will not live my life based on a belief" and then not believe?

If you believe this way, you might also then say, "I do not say there is no [air which I cannot see], I just do not have proof that there is so I will not live my life based on a belief" then you can't believe in air.

All of life takes belief. I don't know that there is a Europe. But I hear people say they've seen it. I don't know that there are forests in Brazil, but I've heard people say it. I don't know that there are mountains in the Andes, but I've heard people say there are. Why is it that this one thing--this belief in a living God--is so hard to believe? I don't understand it, but the Bible says in 2 Thessalonians 2:

10 "...They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."

How can this be? How can a person refuse to believe the truth and choose to go to hell? Is it stubbornness? If a non-believer was on his death bed, then would it be the time to seek the truth?

Many years ago, I told a beautiful nineteen year old girl about salvation on a Wednesday and then the next day, Thursday. She told me she wasn't going to worry about it and didn't want to talk about it any more. She would reconsider when she was 40 and old. By the next Monday, she was in a tragic accident and bled to death on a horse trail while her friend watched and could do nothing. It makes me sick inside that she chose to believe a lie and went on to eternity in this state of mind. I wish I could change that for her. It still make me sad many years later. My heart aches for her, and it aches for those who choose to believe a lie.

To find God, you have to do something. You can't just sit there and say, "I don't believe it" no more than you can say you don't believe in Europe or Brazil or the Andes. You have to seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and He will reveal Himself.

The Bible says, "But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul." Deuteronomy 4:29

Jesus said in Matthew 7:7, "...seek and you will find..."

And in Matthew 7:8 Jesus said, "For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."

Acts 17:27-28 says, "27. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28. 'For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'" If God accepts us as His own children, how could we be in a better position?

And the Message Bible says Hebrews 9:27 most clearly to me: 27. Everyone has to die once, then face the consequences.

Why would anyone take a chance on eternity that they were wrong about God?









Oh Lord, Father, God, Spirit, thank you for the wonderful relationship we have. Thank you for revealing yourself in so many ways. Please, I ask, will you not allow anyone to read or hear these things without planting a seed in them toward salvation, that will be watered, and grow to fruition? Thank you Lord, Father, God, Spirit of the Living God. I praise you for answering my so humble prayer. In Jesus name I pray this, Amen.

And I believe it.

 

[send.the.rain]

Honestly, I think it's pretty hard to come to know God by debating his existence. As a former atheist, this is something that I can say with certainty. Before I was saved, you could have given me any reason for the existence of God and I would have found a counter-argument. It's pretty hard to change someone's mind, especially when they've believed something for so long.
Just pray for your friend, and ask God to touch their heart. Ultimately, we come to know God through His grace, and not by our own understanding. When I experienced His love for the first time, it was greater than anything that I could imagine... beyond all debate. We know that God exists when we experience His presence. And then those questions don't really matter any more.
So my advice is just to be there for your friend... let His light shine through you, so that it may be revealed to others.

 

[fm107]

1. Proof of God:

Psalm 19:1-4
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun,

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

2. Who wrote the bible?


The author of the bible is God, the pen he used to write it were Holy men filled with the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Uneducated Statements

Where are these?
Two things come to mind...

When scientists believe the world was flat, the bible said the world was round!

When scientists "bled" people to get rid of sickness the bible said the blood was our source of life!

This link will help you:

The Evidence Bible

3. Jews Only or Gentiles also?

Acts 10:15
The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

The gentiles are now granted salvation through Jesus Christ. Read on to the end of this chapter. We (gentiles) are the impure food now made clean.


Also read the parable of the great banquet:

Luke 14:15:24

We (the gentiles) are the "poor, the crippled, the blind and the lame." We have been accepted because those who were originally invited (the Jews) rejected God's invitation.

Homosexuals

She has to come to the realisation that people who are homosexuals are sinning against God. People chose to do this, they are not born homosexual. God wouldn't create someone a homosexual then condemn them to Hell for it:

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

4. Other Religions

Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

I only got time to show a fatal error in one false religion:

Lets take Islam, they say Jesus is only a prophet. But prophets cannot lie. So why do they not believe he is the son of God as he claimed? This either makes Jesus a liar or they have this totally wrong and twisted.

5. Changing of teachings

If the bible is followed properly, there should be no changes. As it is some churches do not follow biblical teachings. E.g. Martin Luther found out that the Catholics were not following true biblical teaching i.e. they used to make people pay money in order to have their sins forgiven etc. Totally wrong. This is an example why there are splits.

6. Violence Justified

No true Christian would do that. Totally against the teaching of the bible. People who do this are not true Christians.

Jesus told us to love others:

Luke 6:27-28
"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

Matthew 7:12
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

7.Cherry picking

Scriptures?

Your friend doesn't understand the bible. Ask for scriptures where this apparently happens.

Restricting Freedoms

We don't restrict freedoms. Everyone is welcome to their own choice however...

Jesus told us to go into the world and teach the gospel. People can accept or reject it all we need to do is preach. Leave the saving to Jesus.

8. Evolution

See my next post.

9. Dinosaurs

Here to test us? Have no idea where she got that from, not true.

Talking about timelines, I'd like her to explain the everchanging timeline of how long evolution took to happen. I'd like her to explain how the population of earth isn't WAY more than what it should be if evolution really happened according to their timeline. The Christian timelines is correct with regards to human population.

REALLY GOOD VIDEO:

YouTube - The Age Of The Earth by Dr. Kent Hovind

10. Religion

Actually the reason we have come to know God is that we have been convicted of ours sins. And we realise we have a choice; repent or perish.

 

[fm107]

How do I know the bible is real?

- Fishermen didn’t have the education to write so complex. Any teacher would tell you how well written the bible is.
- It is obviously not bias, the Jews didn’t think the messiah would die. Tells us of quarrels between Paul and other brothers. Jesus’s own brother did not believe in him (until after Jesus rose from the dead) why would it record that?
- Millions of Christians have died for it – that must count for something.
- Eye witnesses
- Multiple accounts – they are all in unison
- It is historically correct
- It was written at a time when it was very dangerous to be a Christian.


How do I know there is a God?

- Nature – everything is so complex and dependent on one another. The moon is in perfect position to change the movement of the sea, the sun is in perfect position to feed the plants.
- Conscience
- Logic

How do we know what Jesus did really happened?

- Eye witnesses – over 500 people seen Jesus after he rose from the dead. Many seen him ascend. His own brother never believed in him until after he rose from the dead.
- Thousands put their belief in him in one day – they all knew who Jesus was and what he did they seen the miracles.
- Millions have died for their beliefs – got to count for something.
- Historical evidence.


How do I know other God’s are not the real God?

- Muslims – If a prophet cannot lie and Jesus is a prophet then why don’t you believe him when he says he is the son of God? Either he is not a prophet as they proclaim or he is the son of God.
- All other God’s are man made.
- No other God commands deals with the sin issue i.e. there is a price for sins i.e. death

Big Bang, evolution and all those other theories

- If the big bang really happened the why are all the planets round?
An explosion does not create spheres!
- A bang is chaotic – order has never come from chaos.

- Where have you ever seen non life create life? It’s impossible.
- How can there be nothing, then something?
- Evolution cannot be scientifically proven – it must be observed, tested and repeated – no one can do this.
- Why aren’t there animals or humans currently going through an evolutionary phase right now?
- Millions of fossils have been found yet not one is of a transitional form of an animal.
- If everything is random mutations then why is everyone the same? Shouldn’t we all be at different evolutionary phases?
- Dawkins admitted, “if you look at the details of biochemistry and molecular biology you might find a signature of some type of designer.”
- If evolution is just random mutations then what reason do people have to trust in their five senses?
- A conscience is God given we all have the same moral laws written in our hearts.



P.S. I am no scientist but I think these points still stand.

 

[fm107]

It might not be the best idea to argue with this women. Instead try to simply reason out with her. This may be hard to do since you are a fairly new Christian. It's up to you.

Pray to God for strength and the right words and that this women will put her faith in him.

God bless.

 

[heron]

People can criticize cherry picking, but that is necessary to happen in this multi-faceted faith with thousands of pages to study. God speaks to us in different ways every time we read a verse. Our experiences shape how we perceive statements. Preachers take one narrow topic each sermon, and expound on it. We are naturally bound to remember a few narrow things that hit us with impact.

Honestly, I think it's pretty hard to come to know God by debating his existence.

I think so too. Some people just like to debate and explore ideas through discussion. But others are just looking for a way to express frustrations.

Ask her to think about the different people who went on a search for enlightenment. Historically, they became highly respected. So much that some religions were formed over people's admiration and desire to take similar pursuits.

If you look at Christianity in a similar way, it is not much different. God walked with the earliest people, on the same soil. He appeared to Abraham and Moses, who were not expecting Him.

The faith is about the interaction between ourselves, and the highest supernatural being there is. The inventor of all. The highest mind. The most creative thinker. The wisest voice.

 

[Free04]

My friend...an atheist...has given me her list as to why she doesnt believe in God, and I would like to be able o talk through her reasons with her with logical answers so Im just wondering if anyone would help me out here!!so im going to post them up here to get some assistance with this as I'm very new to Christianity - not sure I can give the "right" answers at the minute

here goes...

1. I do not say there is no God, I just do not have proof that there is so I will not live my life based on a belief.

This one is used much to often, but at least she admits she can not deny God exists. With this at worse she is agnostic and there is hope. She will not live her life based on beliefs?? She has many beliefs that she thinks is truth. Where does she think life came from? There is no emperical evidence of the origin of life. Science only theorizes it. She believes something about origin of life. Same with origin of the universe, macro evolution and so on. As said she has many beliefs. Her statement is not a reason, but an excuse. I would challenge her to do a little research on origins and easily conclude that the belief that everything came from nothing is an absurd notion.

 

[john@sg]

Remember to keep your friend in prayer, and believe that God will open her heart. Its always good to approach a pastor to clarify the doubt

 

[Peripatetic]

I think the only legitimate argument in the OP's list is #1 - no proof. The hardest question to answer is, "I believe that a higher power exists, but why should I believe in your God and Bible?" Any attempt at arguing this with facts, history, or any other logical backing can be refuted. God reveals Himself in a way that is not provable so that faith is required, so the lack of proof is by design. So how do I answer that question? I don't have a perfect response, but it usually goes something like this: "Belief in false gods inevitably ends up breaking down because it hits random, chaotic branches and dead ends. The most difficult step for a Christian is the first one because you may not have an initial reason to choose it, and because Christianity is distorted by imperfect people. However, once you take the initial leap, the evidence will begin to reveal itself to you personally. It's not something that can be demonstrated, because it happens on an internal level. The more time you spend learning the Word, the more it all fits together like a perfect puzzle."

The rest of the questions can be answered by one phrase above: "Christianity is distorted by imperfect people". The person who provided your list is confusing very different things: God and Religion. God is perfect... Religion in a fallen world is not.

 

[childofGod31]

My friend...an atheist...has given me her list as to why she doesnt believe in God, and I would like to be able o talk through her reasons with her with logical answers so Im just wondering if anyone would help me out here!!so im going to post them up here to get some assistance with this as I'm very new to Christianity - not sure I can give the "right" answers at the minute

here goes...

1. I do not say there is no God, I just do not have proof that there is so I will not live my life based on a belief.

I personally think that there is PROOF for supernatural stuff (if only you read and see what's going on everywhere in people's lives). There is no proof for God per say, but at least there is something that we can't see and that should raise questions: what else is there that we can't see?
I also believe that faith comes at some point to some. That they are drawn to God at some point. It cannot be forced or proven. It just has to happen. What we CAN do, is talk about God's love. Not fake love, the one we are used to undersatnding: God sends people to hell, God judges everybody, but if you repent then He will not send you to hell. You need to FIRST get to know God personally before you can tell others of His REAL love. The fact that He loves all, no matter how sinful. The fact that He is working on the plan to get rid of evil from inside of us (from all of us). The fact that He is giving a chance to some people (whoever is drawn to it) to be blessed more abundantly that we could ever imagine. But that He loves all and will take care of all eventually (in His time, according to His plan). This love can only be known once you come to know HIm personally and hear it from Him.

2. Bible (new testement), is man made, man wrote the bible so there for it can be wrong, have short comings, be exageratted, or biased in its view on any subject. It is also thousands of years old before the dawn of science so there for making uneducated statments.

God inspired men to write. But there is no proof, except for prophesies about Jesus that were written in the old testament and came true in the New testament. Although Bible is true, man's understanding of it is not. It's important to seek God and seek HIS answers and understandings in regards to the Bible. It's important to diligently keep praying for God to help you understand what is written. It is not obvious. It's hidden.

3. Bible (old testement), clearly states that all gentiles (none jews) are not the chosen people and are going to hell. So the fact that christians still use this bible when it clearly states they are not whom it is for annoys me. There is also the fact that christians do not believe people should be gay I find it disgusting and horrible that anyone be excluded or made to feel bad about them selves because of who they are when they are not hurting anyone.

Nothing in the Bible is "clear". Man incorrectly thinks that he can understand what he reads, but it's not true. It's only if God's Spirit is translating what is written only then can man understand correctly. But the problem is that most men do not seek the Spirit, do not seek the kingdom first and God's face, so the undertanding is still hidden from them. But those who come close to God, their eyes are opened.

4. Other Religions- which one is right can you say your religion is the right religion? NO because there is no proof. So this brings me back to not going to lead my life based on one religion when there is no proof to only find out that it is the wrong one.

Religions are many. The truth is one. Only God opens the eyes of the TRUE seekers to the truth. The rest are deceived. A person by himself cannot tell which one is true. God knows the hearts. And if He sees the heart that truly seeks, then He helps that heart to see.

5. Changes- religions have changed to suit people lives protestants used to be chatholics, free protestant (paisley iris robinson) decided as a man with their bias and opions to develop a religion and tell people this is how they are to lead their lives.
Denominations came as a result of people trying to understand the Bible on their own without seeking God's understanding. And therefore, they were deceived into thinking that they know the truth, but it's not true.

6. All Religion- it is not just christianity Muslims in parts of africa cut off a womens [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] as they belive it is what their god wants.. you say this is wrong but they believe it is not but is their belief.
Again, man's understanding, incorrect, but the reason is that those hearts are not true seekers of God.

7. Cherry Picking- I have never met anyone that follows the bible to the last letter, so they have no room for judgment yet they will picket gay perades and try to stop other people having their religious freedoms.
Many are invited but few are chosen. Many call themselves Christians, but few follow Jesus in their actions. Jesus said that many travel the wide road that leads to destruction but only few choose the narrow which leads to life. Therefore, only few truly follow the Bible. But it's hard even for them. It's a matter of growth and spiritual maturity.

8. Most christians as other religions do not believe in evolution. I think That is rediculous as there is proof of this.

I didn't study this, I am not sure. But I read that there is a lot of wrong with evolution...I think it's becasue of lack of knowledge about what's wrong with evolution that she thinks this. Also, there maybe some evolution (to some extent) happening, like evolving...and so that may lead her to believe that the actual theory of evolution: men came from monkeys is also true...

10. I can never be a christian, muslim and or any religion as I believe people should love and help everyone no matter what; there should be no judgment placed unless you hurt someone which is why we have laws. I think that people belive in a god and afterlife because they are to scared to face thier mortality, how small they are in comparison to the universe and the fact that they have no answers. I believe people who have no self control or direction in life also grab onto religion as it gives them structure that they need.

God is all about love. Judging sin is God's job, not mens. Men took it upon themselves and made Christianity into a religion. But God is still not a religion and is all about love. And we focus on love in order to draw people to God. Condemnation never brought people closer to God. Only those who were drawn by His love and kindness truly came to Him...

Every answers welcome... ones from other atheists as well - to see if these are what you guys thing too?!

Thank you!!



Which argument makes least sense??!!

We can't convince everybody. But it's a good idea to try, to at least to help those who are on the edge. Some people will never believe, it's just a fact of life. But our job is to sow the seeds and leave the rest to God.