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God does not desire to save the Reprobate.

Discussion in 'Baptists' started by Osage Bluestem, Apr 6, 2012.

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  1. Osage Bluestem

    Osage Bluestem Galatians 5:1

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    There is no well meant offer for someone who God has set apart as a vessel of wrath.

    Christ did not die for the reprobate.

    The Holy Spirit will not regenerate he reprobate.

    The reprobate is accursed.

    Here is an outstanding article on the subject.

    Does God Really Desire to Save the Reprobate?

     
    JM likes this.
  2. gideons300

    gideons300 Guest

    Brother, here is what I see as error in what you post.

    We do not know who the reprobates are. We do not even know if we are ourselves! We are told plainly that many of us are the ground that started out well, the seed was good, it germinated, but the cares of this life entered in and it produced no fruit to perfection. Reprobate.

    We are told that there are those who are the hard earth, the plow of God was not allowed to do its work, and thus, their foundation was shallow and when the heat was turned up, they wilted and produced no fruit to perfection. Reprobate.

    In both these cases, the seed was good seed, godly seed, and it germinated and sprang forth to real life. There is but one way to make ones calling and election a sure thing. Endure in the faith. Endure to the end. Have we convinced ourselves that predestination is a fact? And if we are right, so what? It does NOTHING to assure us of our own election. It changes nothing for us. We still have to seek Him like all others, on our faces.

    In addition, we do not know if any man is to be the next John the Baptist or the next Hitler. We are told to take the gospel unto all the world, and let God work out who was and who was not predestined, amen?

    Here are my concerns here with the teaching of predestination, whether or not it is true or false.

    First, far too many are initially assuming that since they have discovered this truth, they MUST be predestined to election. What creeps in in more than a few cases is a pride, a holy arrogance, that goes directly against walking in true humility and brokenness that is the mark of the true elect. These far more resemble the pharisee in the temple looking down on the poor man who was found crying out to God "Be merciful to me, a sinner!"
    But Paul himself said he kept His body under, lest after preaching to others, he himself might become a castaway. Do we ignore such a warning to us, directly from the mouth of God? Do we not see, we must endure and then endure some more, grow up into Him in all things, fight the good fight of faith victoriously, in order to make our calling and election sure. That is truth whether we like it, agree with it or not.

    Secondly, it seems, at least from what I can see, this doctrine produces a self-satisfied spiritual lethargy whereby we trust that if God will save any He calls, its a slam dunk so what do we have to sweat it for, for who has resisted His will? Its all good! The reprobates burn, the elect who do many of the same things as the reprobates get gold under their feet to walk upon. The elect will be saved, the reprobates lost and so why the big deal as to evangelism? The result is that there is no warring intercession with God for the souls of men, and the church is left visionless, and passionless for the lost and dying world we were left here to lead to Christ.

    All of a sudden, what often results is a semblance of a club that pats themselves on the back for seeing such a deep truth, as if they actually comprehended what it meant. There is no more burden for the lost and it gets replaced with a bushel basket mentality whereby anyone who is really elect will eventually find their way under the correct bushel basket- ours.

    It is time we wake up to the real issue at hand- how do we bring forth fruit in our lives, for the only ground that was blessed was the ground that produced bountiful fruit, all the way to the end. And if, after searching all of our doctrinal beliefs, we find that we really do not know how to produce fruit that can attract a dis-believing world, or bring us ourselves into the glorious liberty of the children of God, then we need to admit it to God and ask Him to show us the way.

    Blessings,]

    Gideon
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 6, 2012
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  3. SoulBap6

    SoulBap6 Newbie

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    Reprobates;
    rep·ro·bat·edrep·ro·bat·ing




    Definition of REPROBATE

    transitive verb
    1
    : to condemn strongly as unworthy, unacceptable, or evil <reprobating the laxity of the age>

    2
    : to foreordain to damnation

    3
    : to refuse to accept : reject



    Jer.6

    1. [30] Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.
    Rom.1

    1. [28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    2Cor.13

    1. [5] Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
    2. [6] But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
    3. [7] Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.
    2Tim.3

    1. [8] Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
    Tit.1

    1. [16] They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
    When someone is a Atheist or refuses to believe in Jesus Christ, God the Holy Spirit.

    God does not take rejection very well.
     
  4. Skala

    Skala I'm a Saint. Not because of me, but because of Him

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    He never claimed to know who the elect are, nor did he say we could find out who they are.

    How can you be predestined to something that already happened in eternity past? Election happened before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4-11)

    God designed evangelism as the tool, the means, to bring about the salvation of the elect. I think you are assuming predestination means fatalism, which is the idea that the ends happens apart from or despite the means. That is not true. God uses means to accomplish the ends.

    Is that a fact? It seems many of the greatest evangelists in church history were Calvinists who believed in predestination: George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, William Carey, the Father of Modern missions, the Puritans, the Reformers, Charles Spurgeon. How about in more modern times? John Piper, John Macarthur, Paul Washer a missionary/street evangelist, Steve Lawson, James Kennedy, pioneer of Evangelism Explosion. I could go on and on.

    I submit that believing in election actually gives motivation and drive to evangelism. For we know that our efforts will not be in vain! God has already decreed to save sinners through our efforts. The alternative, Arminian view is that it's all up in the air and nothing is for sure. The most God can do is hope and pray (lol) that people will be saved. Rather than absolutely making it so, he's just got wishful thinking.

    Paul had the right attitude: "I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they may be saved..." 1 Tim 2:10
     
  5. SharonL

    SharonL Senior Veteran

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    The Bible says that God may turn a person over to a reprobate mind in order to save his soul.

    Sometimes people have to hit bottom before they turn to God.
     
  6. JM

    JM Predestinarian

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    We do not know who the reprobate are, very true and very biblical.

    With this knowledge comes freedom to proclaim the truth of the Gospel to everyone. Proclaiming the truth of the Gospel is not offering the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ to everyone but simply saying those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. God's love is not promiscuous, He loves His bride and gave Himself for her. Osage is highlighting this in the op, well done.

    :thumbsup:

    jm
     
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  7. Hupomone10

    Hupomone10 Veteran

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    Although you didn't define your terms, I'll assume the KJV rendering of a word as "reprobate", unless you wish to provide another. That would be the Greek word used in Romans 1, "adokimos."

    The passages where that word is used have already been posted. Most of them. All of the references to reprobate are the Greek word adokimos, which means "rejected."

    Do you believe Christ died for Paul the apostle? I do.

    Did you know that Paul felt it was possible for him to himself become a reprobate? It isn't translated with that identical English word, but it's the same Greek word adokimos. Oh, I forgot, another meaning of the word is "castaway" or "disqualified."

    1Corinthians 9:27 (NASB)
    but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified (adokimos).

    1Cor 9:27 (KJV)
    But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway (adokimos).


    Paul believed it was possible for him to become a castaway, a reprobate. Therefore, since he believed Christ died for him, and he believed becoming a reprobate was possible for him, he believed Christ died for persons who could become reprobates.

    I have no doubt you believe this, I just felt I should point out that your belief as well as that of those agreeing with you is contrary to the apostle Paul's. Paul believed Christ died for a potential reprobate. That is because Paul believed Christ died for all.

    On the eve of Easter holiday I cannot imagine why anyone would try to convince people Christ didn't die for them. :confused:

     
  8. Hupomone10

    Hupomone10 Veteran

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    :thumbsup:
     
  9. JM

    JM Predestinarian

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    The voice of sanity, according to scripture is found in the above, the love God has for His elect saves. It is nothing but vain foolishness to suggest that God loves people who perish because of their sin, their sin of unbelief included, as if Jesus didn't pay the price for that as well.

    jm

    R.L. Burnside & Johnny Woods - Telephone Blues - YouTube
     
  10. Hupomone10

    Hupomone10 Veteran

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    Isaiah 45:22
    "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other.

    Isaiah 53:6
    All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; but the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him.

    Isaiah 55:1
    Ho! Every one who thirsts, come to the waters; And you who have no money come, buy and eat. Come, buy wine and milk Without money and without cost.

    Some people posting here believe there is an invisible unspoken phrase in each of these verses, "except for the reprobate".


    Matt. 11:28
    "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.

    John 1:7
    He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him.

    John 1:29
    The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

    Some people posting here believe there is an invisible unspoken phrase in each of these verses, "except for the reprobate".


     
  11. Hupomone10

    Hupomone10 Veteran

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    John 3:16-17
    "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

    John 4:42
    It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world.

    John 7:37
    "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.&#8221;

    John 12:32
    "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

    John 16:8
    "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

    Some people posting here have spiritual insight that you and I don't have. They see the following invisible unspoken phrase in each of these verses, "except for the reprobate". (BTW, JM, these aren't for you, but for for the sake of any other readers that might actually open to what scripture actually says, rather than man's spin on the truth.)
     
  12. Hupomone10

    Hupomone10 Veteran

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    Acts 17:30
    "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

    Acts 17:31
    because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."

    Romans 5:18
    So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

    Romans 8:32
    He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?

    Romans 11:32
    For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

    Some people posting here have spiritual insight that you and I don't have. They see the following invisible unspoken phrase in each of these verses, "except for the reprobate".


     
  13. Hupomone10

    Hupomone10 Veteran

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    1 Corinthians 9:22
    I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.
    When it comes to the gospel, Paul always includes all mankind.

    1 Corinthians 15:22
    For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

    2 Corinthians 5:14-15
    having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

    2 Corinthians 5:19
    God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them,

    Ephesians 3:9 (NKJV)
    "And to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ."

    1 Timothy 2:3-4

    This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    There are not simply a couple of verses, there is overwhelming support to show that the OP is wrong when he said
    Christ did not die for the reprobate. And this is just the ones I know about.
     
  14. Blessedj01

    Blessedj01 Guest

    You're making me laugh. Actually, it's not funny. Because WE ARE the reprobrate. Don't we continue to sin? Don't you see that God wants to save us all? There is no "set apart vessel of wrath", that's ridiculous. We are ALL set apart until we come unto God through Jesus. All human beings are human beings. If you were part of that group that was unsaved, yes, you were on your way to Hell with a full tank! But now you are not, thank God! That's why fear is the beginning of wisdom. That's why God's goodness SHOULD lead to repentance. There is no purposely unsaveable portion of humanity. Don't you get it that God's wrath was satisfied on the cross? God has reached out to EVERYBODY the same way. Don't you get it? NONE MAY BRAG.

    God's grace is the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS and the rest of it, you can take to Timbuktu!
     
  15. Osage Bluestem

    Osage Bluestem Galatians 5:1

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    God is sovereign. (omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, immutable, eternal, holy).

    Grace is unmerited favor from God.

    A reprobate is a person destined to damnation. God hates them.

    An elect is a person destined to salvation. God loves them.

    Love that has the power to save will save. God has the power to save but doesn't love the reprobate and will not save them. They serve a different purpose. He does save the elect because he loves them.
     
  16. Blessedj01

    Blessedj01 Guest

    Wow!!!

    Nonsense.

    You keep thinking this way and I guarantee you there will be consequences.

    You're essentially playing God here.
     
  17. Osage Bluestem

    Osage Bluestem Galatians 5:1

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    Thats what the bible teaches, the sovereignty of God, and that is good because he always makes the right decisions.
     
  18. Blessedj01

    Blessedj01 Guest

    I agree with that, but disagree with this:

    "A reprobate is a person destined to damnation. God hates them.

    An elect is a person destined to salvation. God loves them."

    and this:

    "God has the power to save but doesn't love the reprobate and will not save them. They serve a different purpose."

    Don't you realise that WE ARE ALL THE SAME, under BOTH categories. The -only- thing that makes us different is the amazing grace of God that we saw, now trust in and is now accounted to us for righteousness? How many had the same choice? I bet you lots (like Lucifer) but chose to choose themselves.

    There's NO SUCH THING as a people that God doesn't love and won't save - there's only people who WON'T accept God.

    For "ALL HAVE HEARD"...yet our pride does not allow us to 'hear.' We are spiritually deaf and blind. We hear the truth yet we reject it. Even when we are saved we remain ignorant fools, constantly astounded that God is the only consistent source of Truth in this universe.
     
  19. Osage Bluestem

    Osage Bluestem Galatians 5:1

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    Read Romans 9.
     
  20. Blessedj01

    Blessedj01 Guest

    Sorry, I edited my post. Reading now.

    edit: I read it. So what's your point? Sounds like you think we should just stop preaching altogether.

    Let's stop loving. In fact, let's stop going to church. God's already sorted it out right? He doesn't want us to preach Him to all the nations, so let's not bother right?

    From this (Romans 9) I do not get the impression that God's salvation is not for everybody. I simply understand that it will not BE CHOSEN by everybody.
     
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