Go! ACLU Go!

[Washington]

Wow! I see why you're so down on the Texas board of Education now. Your hatred is fueled by your own ignorance. The KKK is not an ultra conservative Christian organization. They are not even Christian. They are are a racist hate group. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ah ha, someone else who thinks they've been given the right to decide who gets to call themselves Christian and who doesn't. But this bit of self-anointed authority aside, here are some interesting points to ponder.

KKK

In Existence
1st Klan 1865–1870s
2nd Klan 1915–1944
3rd Klan1 since 1946

Members
1st Klan 550,000
2nd Klan between 3 and 6 million[1] (peaked in 1920-1925 period)

Properties
Origin United States of America
Political ideology: White supremacy, White nationalism
Political position: Far right
Religion: Protestant Christian
source
​

And

Today the KKK has been greatly weakened as their views have become more and more radical. They consider themselves a Christian organization and base their doctrines upon their own reading of the Bible. Their theology is strongly influenced by Christian Reconstructionism - they hope to "reconstruct" the United States along biblical (primarily Old Testament) lines and to establish a white-dominated theocracy.
source
​

Then this, from their own "lips."

"There is a race war against whites. But our people - my white brothers and sisters - will stay committed to a non-violent resolution. That resolution must consist of solidarity in white communities around the world. The hatred for our children and their future is growing and is being fueled every single day. Stay firm in your convictions. Keep loving your heritage and keep witnessing to others that there is a better way than a war torn, violent, wicked, socialist, new world order. That way is the Christian way - law and order - love of family - love of nation. These are the principles of western Christian civilization. There is a war to destroy these things. Pray that our people see the error of their ways and regain a sense of loyalty. Repent America! Be faithful my fellow believers. "

National Director of The Knights
source
​

Of course I understand one's reluctance and distaste in admitting that an onerous organization such as the KKK shares the same beliefs as oneself, but lacking any rule book for admittance into Christianity I'm afraid other Christians are stuck with their religious brethren here.

 

[seashale76]

The KKK is a Christian cult, at best. They're not in communion with the Orthodox, that's for sure. Communion is everything. There's Orthodox Christianity, and then there's...everything else. I can safely say that my religion and theirs isn't the same.

 

[oldbetang]

Ah ha, someone else who thinks they've been given the right to decide who gets to call themselves Christian and who doesn't.

I do reserve that right, yes.

Of course I understand one's reluctance and distaste in admitting that an onerous organization such as the KKK shares the same beliefs as oneself, but lacking any rule book for admittance into Christianity I'm afraid other Christians are stuck with their religious brethren here.

What is it about the KKK that makes them a Christian organization? Is it that they claim to be? Well, David Koresh claimed to be the Lamb of God. Was he?

What is a Christian Organization?

 

[Washington]

The KKK is a Christian cult, at best. They're not in communion with the Orthodox, that's for sure. Communion is everything. There's Orthodox Christianity, and then there's...everything else. I can safely say that my religion and theirs isn't the same.

Kind of depends on how you're using the word "religion." If it's in the common sense, as in the designations, Buddhist religion, Jewish religion, Hindu religion, or Christian religion, then your religion IS the same as theirs. However, if you're playing fast and loose with "religion" so as to distance yourself from the KKK, then perhaps it's not. But this distinction is yours alone . . . . well yours and perhaps a few others who also can't stand their company. But I suspect your attempt at disassociation from the KKK is based not so much on their religious convictions, which really should be the only basis for such an action, but because of their more secular beliefs. In any case, have a good day.

 

[LightHorseman]

I do reserve that right, yes.

What is it about the KKK that makes them a Christian organization? Is it that they claim to be? Well, David Koresh claimed to be the Lamb of God. Was he?

What is a Christian Organization?

The fact they worship Christ?

Their preponderance for crosses is a bit of a give away.

 

[seashale76]

The fact they worship Christ?

Their preponderance for crosses is a bit of a give away.

On second thought, I suppose it is to their advantage to pass themselves off as Christians. A few of the founding fathers of the US did it as well. Go to church every sunday even if you aren't a member, refuse to be confirmed, don't commune, and do a few good deeds for the community at large, etc. and people will ignore your real beliefs. So long as you put a sheet on your head, they can't say one way or the other whether it's really you and they don't have to be bothered to break away from their apathy.

I was related to a former Klan member (deceased before I was ever born). I was told that once he became a believer he left the organization and tried to get others to do so as well. True believers can't reconcile being part of such things.

 

[LightHorseman]

On second thought, I suppose it is to their advantage to pass themselves off as Christians. A few of the founding fathers of the US did it as well. Go to church every sunday even if you aren't a member, refuse to be confirmed, don't commune, and do a few good deeds for the community at large, etc. and people will ignore your real beliefs. So long as you put a sheet on your head, they can't say one way or the other whether it's really you and they don't have to be bothered to break away from their apathy.

I was related to a former Klan member (deceased before I was ever born). I was told that once he became a believer he left the organization and tried to get others to do so as well. True believers can't reconcile being part of such things.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Klansmen are particularly GOOD Christians, but they seem to tick all the boxes to be considered one. As does Hitler. But then, I'm not simple enough to be fooled into thinking there is any merit in the "damned by association" fallacy, so I don't feel diminished in acknowledging there are some losers in my club.

 

[oldbetang]

The fact they worship Christ?

Do they worship Christ? How do you know?

Their preponderance for crosses is a bit of a give away.

I thought that their preponderance was for desecrating crosses.

 

[oldbetang]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Klansmen are particularly GOOD Christians, but they seem to tick all the boxes to be considered one. As does Hitler.

Christianity is an invention of sick brains," Adolf Hitler, 13 December 1941.

"So it's not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death," Adolf Hitler, 14 October 1941.

When National Socialism has ruled long enough, it will no longer be possible to conceive of a form of life different from ours. In the long run, National Socialism and religion will no longer be able to exist together. … No, it does not mean a war. The ideal solution would be to leave the religions to devour themselves, without persecutions. But in that case we must not replace the Church with something equivalent…The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity. [Hitler's Table Talk, p. 6-7]
​

Which "Christianity boxes" were those ticking?

Goebbels himself noted in his diary that “The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so. It is a branch of the Jewish race”

 

[Ringo84]

That tells me where their roots are at-marxism.

If the ACLU is "Marxist" and/or "Communist", and they stand up for the Separation of Church and State, which was a part of our government established by our founders, does that mean that the founders were also "Marxists" and "Communists"?
Ringo

 

[Washington]

I do reserve that right, yes.

What is it about the KKK that makes them a Christian organization? Is it that they claim to be? Well, David Koresh claimed to be the Lamb of God. Was he?

What is a Christian Organization?

Gotta say that anyone who starts off an argument with,

"Atheists love to label all Christians as guilty of the sins of the extremists such as the KKK by saying that KKK is Christian, Hitler was Christian, so therefore all of Christianity is like this, or Christian teaching makes you a racist. . . ." (From link)
​

deserves all the silence he gets.

Setting up stupid, generalized straw men like this isn't worthy of a ninth grade drop out, and I would think you would be ashamed of offering up tripe like this.

 

[armyman_83]

If the ACLU is "Marxist" and/or "Communist", and they stand up for the Separation of Church and State, which was a part of our government established by our founders, does that mean that the founders were also "Marxists" and "Communists"?
Ringo

The government of the United States says little about the seperation of Church and State. If you want full "Seperation of Church and State" then give me all your legal tender....please.

What the founding fathers didn't want was a State Church, like the Church of England, they weren't for the seperation of Christian values out of the government sphere.

And while the Federal government is unable to make laws regulating religion, the states are not bound by such a law (in theory) unless such regulation is part of their own state consititutions.

 

[LightHorseman]

Do they worship Christ? How do you know?

Look it up

I thought that their preponderance was for desecrating crosses.

You'd think so. But what they claim is that the burning cross is actually symbolic of Christ's light coming into the world. They don't see it as a desecration.

First impressions of other people's religious practice can be dangerous taken at face value. Like the Romans justification for persecuting the "weird religion where they worship an executed god by ritual canibalism".

 

[LightHorseman]

Christianity is an invention of sick brains," Adolf Hitler, 13 December 1941.

"So it's not opportune to hurl ourselves now into a struggle with the Churches. The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death," Adolf Hitler, 14 October 1941.

When National Socialism has ruled long enough, it will no longer be possible to conceive of a form of life different from ours. In the long run, National Socialism and religion will no longer be able to exist together. … No, it does not mean a war. The ideal solution would be to leave the religions to devour themselves, without persecutions. But in that case we must not replace the Church with something equivalent…The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity. [Hitler's Table Talk, p. 6-7]
​

Which "Christianity boxes" were those ticking?

Goebbels himself noted in his diary that “The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so. It is a branch of the Jewish race”

Prussian coat of arms under Hitler. The motto "Gott mit uns," literally, "God is with us".

Belt buckle, standard issue to German infantry, Second world War era.

Checkmate.

 

[Polycarp1]

The government of the United States says little about the seperation of Church and State. If you want full "Seperation of Church and State" then give me all your legal tender....please.

What the founding fathers didn't want was a State Church, like the Church of England, they weren't for the seperation of Christian values out of the government sphere.

And while the Federal government is unable to make laws regulating religion, the states are not bound by such a law (in theory) unless such regulation is part of their own state consititutions.

First, the Constitution does not contain the phrase "Se[aration of Church and State"; that was the phrasing used by President Jefferson in correspondence with the Danbury, CT Baptist Church, to describe what it did and does contain: a provision prohibiting Congress from making a law respecting an establishment of religion, or restricting the free exercise thereof. Some people misread the first one as prohibiting establishment of a religion, but the "a" is in a different place. It means that the Federal government is prohibited in establishing anything for purely religious motives.

Too, the "Christian values" are not those specific to any one given church, but those shared by Americans generally. In other words, there will be hot-button issues on which good Christians disagree as well as ones common to all.

Finally, the "First Amendment rights" that states (as opposed to the Federal government) may not infringe on, are actually guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment, which makes citizens of the various states citizens of the United States and says that states may not infringe on their rights.

 

[oldbetang]

Prussian coat of arms under Hitler. The motto "Gott mit uns," literally, "God is with us".

Belt buckle, standard issue to German infantry, Second world War era.

Checkmate.

God is with us? What god would that be? We know that it's not the one that Hitler despised. So which one was it?

The Führer is deeply... anti-christian.
​

I'm sure that there were plenty of regular German army guys who were Christian. However, the Nazi leaders were most definitely not. They were virulently anti-Christian.

 

[LightHorseman]

God is with us? What god would that be? We know that it's not the one that Hitler despised. So which one was was it?

The Führer is deeply... anti-christian.
​

I'm sure that there were plenty of regular German army guys who were Christian. However, the Nazi leaders were most definitely not. They were virulently anti-Christian.

Hitler was a choir boy. The swastika is featured prominently in the cathedral where he used to sing, directly opposite the choir stall. It is generally assumed that that is where he was inspired to adopt the symbol from. Deal with it.

Gott mit uns. Seriously.

 

[oldbetang]

Hitler was a choir boy.

So was Stalin. So what? They both rejected the faith of their youth.

The swastika is featured prominently in the cathedral where he used to sing, directly opposite the choir stall. It is generally assumed that that is where he was inspired to adopt the symbol from. Deal with it.

Gott mit uns. Seriously.

Not sure of the relevance of that , but citation needed anyway.

 

[LightHorseman]

So was Stalin. So what? They both rejected the faith of their youth.



Not sure of the relevance of that , but citation needed anyway.

Then why'd he plaster "God is with us" all over everything?

 

[Staccato]

Skips to the last page to see if the board is worth reading. Sees yet another fruitful discussion of whether Hitler was a Christian or not. Exits stage left.