Global vs Local Flood: Perhaps there is a way to have Unison Between the Two

[Aman777]

GXG:>>The other major flood was in Washington State at the end of the Ice Age. As the continental glacier began to melt, it formed huge lakes held back by a glacial Ice Dam. The Glacial Lake Missoula was held back by the Clark Fork and Columbia River Ice Dams. The Dam broke several times producing huge floods that covered most of Washington State and carved the gorge of the Columbia to the Pacific Ocean. Native Americans lived there at that time and they have legends of those floods in addition to geology proof of flood basalts across central Washington. Native Americans have several different stories about the Glacial Dam (Bridge of the Gods) and the devastating flood that destroyed many villages and animal herds. It was an American equivalent and probably occurred near the same time as the Mythical Noah's Flood.

Whether others agree or disagree, I'd love to hear what others feel on the matter...and whether or not you think reconcilliation can ever occur. Shalom

Dear Readers, Noah's flood totally and completely destroyed the first earth, the earth of Adam. It is no more. Our present earth will be burned. Our earth has Never suffered a global flood and scripture does not say that it did.

In order to understand this, one should notice that at least 3 heavens were made by the beginning of the 3rd Day. The first firmament or heaven, which is the boundary of the first heaven, was made on the 2nd Day. Genesis 1:6-8

Other heavenS (Plural) were made at the beginnng of the 3rd Day, the SAME Day the first earth was made. Genesis 2:4 This agrees with Genesis 1:9-10 which shows that the first earth was made on the 3rd Day.

The firmament of Adam was placed in the midst or middle of the water, and Peter tells us it was "in the water and out of the water." ll Peter 3:5. He also tells us that the world that THEN WAS perished (Greek-destroyed totally) and that the world WHICH IS NOW will be burned. This reveals that all of us will live eternally with Jesus in the 3rd Heaven of ll Corinthians 12:2, the new heaven and new earth of Revelation 21:1.

The firmament had windows in the top of it, and the Ark was covered. When the windows were opened, the firmament filled with water and sank. The Ark floated to the surface of Lake Van in the mountains of Ararat. Thus the first earth was "clean dissolved" as Isaiah 24:19 tells us. This also explains why Genesis 7 tells us the Ark was above the highest mountains on the 150th day after the flood began, and was also in the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150th day after the flood began according to Genesis 8.

Remember that I defined the firmament as the boundary of the first heaven, which was made on the 2nd Day. When the Ark floated to the surface of the firmament, it came into our 2nd heaven or Universe. When the boundary of our earth is burned, we will rise with Jesus into the 3rd Heaven and live with Him forever there.

I realize that this is new to many and goes against what some teach, but it is the Truth scripturally, scientifically, and historically. It can only be understood IF we see that God is the Supreme intelligence of creation, and His Truth must agree in every way with every other discovered Truth. May God bless all of us.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The Earth is presently colder than it has been for 80% of it's history, because the rise of the Himalayas 70 million years ago increased atmospheric turbulence causing carbon-dioxide to be more readily dissolved into the ocean and turned into calcium carbonate.


As to the flood, there is a theory that 18 mile wide Burckle Crater in the Indian Ocean might be a relatively recent comet impact that would have ejected enormous quantities of vaporized water into the upper atmosphere producing torrential rains for weeks without end, as well as generating a megatsunami.

Interesting to consider, although more evidence would be a blessing in establishing the case you raised.

 

[Fascinated With God]

Interesting to consider, although more evidence would be a blessing in establishing the case you raised.

Yeah, they need to get a deep sea submersible down there to get some rock samples for dating.

 

[SkyWriting]

... It was an American equivalent and probably occurred near the same time as the Mythical Noah's Flood.

There is no benefit to explaining American Indian stories as fact and explaining how it may have occured, then claiming the Biblical story a myth. It doesn't read like a myth. It reads like a real event that provides lessons for us to learn. Unless offered as a dream or a vision, the scriptures provide details of actual events.

 

[Fascinated With God]

There is no benefit to explaining American Indian stories as fact and explaining how it may have occured, then claiming the Biblical story a myth. It doesn't read like a myth. It reads like a real event that provides lessons for us to learn. Unless offered as a dream or a vision, the scriptures provide details of actual events.

So when other ancient cultures describe the same thing as the Bible it is just a meaningless myth, but when the same story appears in the Bible it is not a myth? That seems rather biased and subjective.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

There is no benefit to explaining American Indian stories as fact and explaining how it may have occured, then claiming the Biblical story a myth. It doesn't read like a myth. It reads like a real event that provides lessons for us to learn. Unless offered as a dream or a vision, the scriptures provide details of actual events.

Seeing that no one said the Biblical account was a myth (and language had differing nuances/meanings in differing era), it's a bit of a moot point what was brought up with American Indian stories. For they both attest to historical events.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yeah, they need to get a deep sea submersible down there to get some rock samples for dating.

It may happen in the future...

 

[freezerman2000]

There is no benefit to explaining American Indian stories as fact and explaining how it may have occured, then claiming the Biblical story a myth. It doesn't read like a myth. It reads like a real event that provides lessons for us to learn. Unless offered as a dream or a vision, the scriptures provide details of actual events.

Thing is,those Indian stories are backed up with evidence,in the form of the "scablands",geological evidence that one can see,walk on,and touch.
Where is physical proof of the Biblical flood?

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

I was writing due to how I have often seen alot of battles that've gone down over the years, be it between Young Earth Creationists or Old Earth Creationists or Secular Evolutionists on how whether or not a flood ever occurred on the Earth---and for those that do, the battle often seems to go for whether it was a global or a local one.

I go with a global flood. there was water under the earth which came to the surface. If it was a local flood, Noah could have just moved. The fossil record is a record of the flood, with all the coal etc. i have found ammonites in soft rock, loads of them. the rock is more like hard grey clay. there is a bed of giant ammonites, set in stone, which you can walk along, in Lym Regis, Dorset.
I watch lectures by Walter Vieth, on the flood. I am very convinced by all the evidence, for a global flood.
As i said on the other thead, there are two similar flood accounts, merged into one, in the bible. they think that it was carried along through history by the two kingdoms of Judah and Israel, which was combined when the northern kingdom was overrun by the Assyrians, and the refugees took the other record of the flood with them, to the southern kingdom. they think it was edited together by Ezra.
I find it hard to believe that all the animals, birds and insects were taken on to the Ark. I don't know why there had to be a flood, couldn't God just have zapped out all the bad guys, and left everything else. It was killing them, one way or the other.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I was writing due to how I have often seen alot of battles that've gone down over the years, be it between Young Earth Creationists or Old Earth Creationists or Secular Evolutionists on how whether or not a flood ever occurred on the Earth---and for those that do, the battle often seems to go for whether it was a global or a local one.

I go with a global flood. there was water under the earth which came to the surface. If it was a local flood, Noah could have just moved. The fossil record is a record of the flood, with all the coal etc. i have found ammonites in soft rock, loads of them. the rock is more like hard grey clay. there is a bed of giant ammonites, set in stone, which you can walk along, in Lym Regis, Dorset.

I watch lectures by Walter Vieth, on the flood. I am very convinced by all the evidence, for a global flood.

As i said on the other thead, there are two similar flood accounts, merged into one, in the bible. they think that it was carried along through history by the two kingdoms of Judah and Israel, which was combined when the northern kingdom was overrun by the Assyrians, and the refugees took the other record of the flood with them, to the southern kingdom. they think it was edited together by Ezra. .

Will have to investigate the articles by WAlter Vieth - as it sounds interesting. Additionally, I'm not certain as to which thread you're speaking of - so a link to it would be appreciated so I could see what you said elsewhere and what else was shared by others in that discussion.

I find it hard to believe that all the animals, birds and insects were taken on to the Ark. I don't know why there had to be a flood, couldn't God just have zapped out all the bad guys, and left everything else. It was killing them, one way or the other

I've often wondered the same thing - although if interested, there was another discussion elsewhere on the issue which tackled the issue.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

Will have to investigate the articles by WAlter Vieth - as it sounds interesting. Additionally, I'm not certain as to which thread you're speaking of - so a link to it would be appreciated so I could see what you said elsewhere and what else was shared by others in that discussion.


I've often wondered the same thing - although if interested, there was another discussion elsewhere on the issue which tackled the issue.

i was just talking about the other thread about the age of the earth, next to this one.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I find it hard to believe that all the animals, birds and insects were taken on to the Ark. I don't know why there had to be a flood, couldn't God just have zapped out all the bad guys, and left everything else. It was killing them, one way or the other.

Genesis 6:14
The Lord saw how great man’s wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

9 This is the account of Noah.

Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God. 10 Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth.

11 Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress[c] wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high.[d] 16 Make a roof for it and finish[e] the ark to within 18 inches[f] of the top. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks. 17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons’ wives with you. 19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them.”

22 Noah did everything just as God commanded him.

7 The Lord then said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven[g] of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.”

​

I've often wondered on the reasoning behind the Lord wanting to wipe out the wildlife in addition to mankind. For when I read the text, I do see where it notes that all of mankind was violent and it grieved the Lord - but when the Lord said he was determined to wipe out man AND all of his other creations, it always seemed perplexing. For it seemed as if the Lord was somehow mad at the animals as if they were also an issue - and in the event that they are not, it seemed a bit odd that the Lord would wipe them out to punish mankind...unless it was the case that they would be wiped out as a byproduct of destorying mankind.

Of course, there are some valid concerns that can be considered...

Genetic alteration is perhaps one of the best reasons for understanding why the Flood occurred. Just as we see in so called 'mythology' Giants or 'gods' there were also strange creatures such as the half man half goat or the half man half bull and these things can be seen in ancient civilizations like Babylon and Egypt and many other places. These are called collectively 'Chimera'. And for examples of them:

• Centaur (horse-man)
• Echidna (snake-woman)
• Harpy (bird-woman)
• Mandrake (plant-man)
• Mermaid (woman-fish)
• Minotaur (bull-man)
• Satyr (horse-tailed man; later, goat-man)
• Siren (bird-woman)
• Sphinx (woman-lion-bird)
• Tragelaphos (goat-stag)

There was already a prohibition against mixing of all things, in the Torah - and as it concerns the Chimera/Mixed creature aspect - some of this discussed elsewhere in thread such as Messianic Mermaid: Of those not fully "human", could they worship Messiah? when it came to examining mythology, the creatures discussed, seeing how the Book of Jasher notes that the angels tainted animals just as they did with men and seeing the ways those creatures either existed after the Flood (such as Dagon - the Half Fish/Man Philistine god based on a merman concept - as discussed in #5) or were wiped out in it as an Act of Mercy by the Lord.

Nonetheless, if going with the ideology that all the other species of animal were somehow genetically altered, it'd seem to be based a lot on assumptions that the text doesn't seem to bring out - for it does seem that even regular animals (from insects to birds) were wiped out who were normal and the Lord only saved select numbers from them. Surely it is within God's power to either protect the animals that were not tainted - or reverse the effects of experimentation that may've been done to them.

But again, we were not there and thus we don't have all the facts.

On why the Lord decided to wipe out the animals themselves alongside man, the traditional answer is that probably humans were engaging in inappropriate behavior with animals. God's character required death to both in those cases - and the reality of inappropriate behavior with animals is something with a lot of merit. The Bible does mention in Exodus 22:19 that “Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death.”..while Leviticus 18:23 declares, “Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion"..and Leviticus 20:15-16 commands, “If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal. If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.” Deuteronomy 27:21 agrees,

In many ways, inappropriate behavior with animals represents the ultimate of sexual deviancy - and the fact that the animal was to be put to death (Leviticus 20:15-16), despite the fact that it would be “innocent,” shows how severe things are.

I just find it difficult to believe that mankind got so bad that they began sleeping around with literally everything/anything that wasn't human. That's a lot of people for that to be going on - and with every creature (including bugs)...that'd be bizzare. And on a humorous note, should others think men sleeping with bugs was impossible, bugs were PRETTY big back in the day. It was the case, according to one scientifici perspective (Young Earth Creationism), that animals got a lot bigger back then due to the atmosphere - and the same with humans - and there've been fossils as well showing how certain bugs were withing giantic proportions back in early history (more here and here). So to a degree, I could see how some of them buggies were nothing to mess with.

But all? That's wild, IMHO.

And with God choosing something as extreme as a flood - even though it'd impact the animals as well - there are some practical concerns on the matter.

As others noted best:

Other than a flood or a worldwide fire to kill off man, which would also have killed the animals, what would actually wipe the slate clean? Plague or famine or whatever would leave piles of dead people everywhere. The flood neatly got rid of all of the bodies by scattering them and burying them in the sediment.

It was a clean sweep - all of creation was destroyed except Noah and his nuclear family. Everything died, from mankind down to animals, reptiles, trees, grass etc etc. That is why Noah had to send out the birds to see whether creation had re-booted or not. There was nothing wrong with the animals, as such, because two of each kind were saved, at random, as well as seven of each type of clean animal etc. Obviouisly the fish and other marine life survived. So we cannot assume that animals were the objects of his anger as well as man.

It was a re-boot after G_d saw a BSOD - to put it in computer terms - and creation was re-started with his chosen human beings and all species of wild-life starting again. It was quite clear that nature could not run the earth!

It is worth bearing in mind that the earlier part of chapter 6 tells us about the Nephilim coming to earth - thereafter mankind was corrupted by these beings, these men of old. It is this that G_d saw just before he decided to re-boot creation. He made us for good but 'every thought and plan of man was evil' and he regretted creating everything because of these things. However, one family out of the whole earth pleased him and for that family and the potential for creation to work as G_d intended, he decided NOT to utterly destroy everything. It is a story of his love for his creation, in spite of all that happened. Much the same with sending Yeshua, reallY

​

I'm definately glad the Lord in his love chose to spare Noah - but saddened to see the extent of how things had gotten and how the Lord felt He had to take out every type of creature around. Part of me was thinking that there are literally infinite amount of ways the Lord could destroy us and leave creation out of it - be it having disease arise to wipe us out or bacterial infection or the climate shifting and many other things - and yet with some things done naturally, there'd be consequences - such as simply wiping out the humans with disease and yet leaving the bodies to rot. I think flood would definately serve to wash away bodies left over - yet it's not outside of God's power to do things like making bodies vanish or turn to dust...as He can do anything. Just because God did something one way doesn't mean it has to automatically be seen as the ONLY way or the best way since He has no limitations.

But in all things, God is sovereign and the fact that even one family was sparred is a big deal His Love being seen...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

i was just talking about the other thread about the age of the earth, next to this one.

Got ya. Thanks for letting me know

 

[KWCrazy]

In a previous post I showed a topographical map of the area which shows that a regional flood could not have happened since the depths recorded would have been impossible. The region is too low and there is sufficient access for a sea level runoff that for the water volume to build high enough to even come close to covering a mountain peak it would require that the sea level be raised as well. You can have a local flood in an area completely surrounded by mountains, but such an area doesn't exist in the region.

What does the Bible say about the flood?
Genesis 7
"18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark."

Isaiah 54:9
"For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee."

Matthew 24:
"37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Luke 17
"26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all."

The simple fact is that a young earth destroys any notion of evolution and leads to the inevitable conclusion that life was created by a supernatural God. That's why the Great Flood of Noah MUST be denied at all costs. That's why there is so much bitterness and derision coming from those who reject any notion of a Biblical flood.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yeah, they need to get a deep sea submersible down there to get some rock samples for dating.

It'll probably take some years before they can develop a sub strong enough to handle exploring at those depths...

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

...

 

[Aman777]

freeze:>>Where is physical proof of the Biblical flood?

Dear Freeze, It's within your own body. You have the DNA of Mitochondrial Eve, a prehistoric woman who lived some 150k years ago AND you have the human intelligence of Adam, who never set foot on this earth.

I know you are one of Adam's descendants because you can use a computer. ONLY those with the higher intelligence level of Adam have enough intelligence to type a message on this board. NO innocent animal posts.

 

[KWCrazy]

I know you are one of Adam's descendants because you can use a computer. ONLY those with the higher intelligence level of Adam have enough intelligence to type a message on this board. NO innocent animal posts.

Wait!
You mean Dog With a Blog isn't TRUE???

 

[Aman777]

Originally Posted by Aman777 :>>I know you are one of Adam's descendants because you can use a computer. ONLY those with the higher intelligence level of Adam have enough intelligence to type a message on this board. NO innocent animal posts.

KW:>>Wait!
You mean Dog With a Blog isn't TRUE???

Dear KW, NO innocent creature, whose origin was in the water, has the higher intelligence of Adam. This is because mankind is destined to have dominion or rule over EVERY other living creature in heaven. Genesis 1:28

In Love,
Aman

 

[freezerman2000]

freeze:>>Where is physical proof of the Biblical flood?

Dear Freeze, It's within your own body. You have the DNA of Mitochondrial Eve, a prehistoric woman who lived some 150k years ago AND you have the human intelligence of Adam, who never set foot on this earth.

I know you are one of Adam's descendants because you can use a computer. ONLY those with the higher intelligence level of Adam have enough intelligence to type a message on this board. NO innocent animal posts.

I was talking about geological evidence,such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scablands..not my DNA