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Give me one beneficial mutation.

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by Heaven-Sent, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. MoonLancer

    MoonLancer The Moon is a reflection of the MorningStar

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    it is when the order changes.

    You are using fallacious reasoning.

    so if

    is replaced with

    Its not new code? its not conveying something entirely different?

    In my opinion this thread has put your honesty into question. show what "new information" looks like or stop committing logical fallacy.
     
  2. Heaven-Sent

    Heaven-Sent New Member

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    Why would a creature slowly mutate developing wings? The intermediate process would be of no value to them.
     
  3. MoonLancer

    MoonLancer The Moon is a reflection of the MorningStar

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    gliding is a intermediate. therefor of value.
     
  4. Flatland

    Flatland Junior Member

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    Ahhhh a variation of the fallacy "what good is half a wing?"
     
  5. Heaven-Sent

    Heaven-Sent New Member

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    Hopefully my next son will be born with half wings, so maybe my grandchildren will be able to fly.
     
  6. Flatland

    Flatland Junior Member

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    Wow.....
     
  7. MoonLancer

    MoonLancer The Moon is a reflection of the MorningStar

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    please show evidence that scientists claim wings form in 2 or 3 generations.

    Anyway lets just hope your son is at least born with half of something you seemly lack.
     
    Baggins likes this.
  8. Heaven-Sent

    Heaven-Sent New Member

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    Wow what? Isn't this what happened millions of years ago? Why would it be any different today? It would be very beneficial if I could fly.
     
  9. Heaven-Sent

    Heaven-Sent New Member

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    So if they weren't born with half wings, I'm assuming you believe it took millions of years to evolve wings. It kept mutating and mutating, generation after generation, and finally grew wings. Do you understand the probabilty of this?
     
  10. MoonLancer

    MoonLancer The Moon is a reflection of the MorningStar

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    your thread has been answered. have a good day.
     
  11. Flatland

    Flatland Junior Member

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    What happened millions of years ago is that organisms evolved through many small successive changes not through big sudden changes. What you advocate is pure magic.

    You have repeatedly demonstrated that you lack even the most basic understanding of evolution. Yet you think you can overturn an established scientific theory and all the experts in the field? You have to be kidding me right?
     
  12. MoonLancer

    MoonLancer The Moon is a reflection of the MorningStar

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    Its only improbable when you try and calculate as a single generation gaining enough and exact mutations to create a wing (or some gliding appendage).

    Over time one only has to calculate the probability of each generations mutation. while the generations add up the probability does not because each generation is having this feature selected for.

    with slow changes and small steps, anything is possible.
     
  13. Mike Elphick

    Mike Elphick Not so new...

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    I see you are not persuaded, and I don't blame you.

    First of all, evolution can only occur through modification of genetic material that already exists (even if this is from other organisms), so you don't suddenly get new parts — otherwise you're calling for some magic intervention. You have been given examples showing how novel genes can arise from duplication of existing genes, which are then free to be modified by mutation to perform new functions.

    Secondly, you're probably wondering how on earth the examples given can explain the evolution of, say, fish into humans. You're surely thinking that you'd need tens of thousands of new genes. This is perhaps what biologists thought before the advent of gene sequencing. The surprise was the finding that 96% of the of 20,000–25,000 or so human genes were identical to those of the chimp. Therefore most of the differences in DNA lie in regions that do not code for genes, but instead exist in sequences that control how gene-coding regions are activated and read.

    When we look at different mammals, there are very few fundamental biochemical dissimilarities (i.e. protein-coding genes) between different species — the biggest differences are in form and structure and these can be traced to differences in the patterning of embryological development. Thus biodiversity is due to alterations in gene regulation rather than in differences in genes — so evolution doesn't necessarily need new genes (or 'new information' as creationists would call it):-

    Thus mammals didn't evolve on the basis of generating completely new protein-coding genes — it was mainly by changes in the timing and relative activity of existing genes and regulatory factors expressed during embryological development:-

    This is explained more 'scientifically' in the following article:-

    Evolutionary biologists don't have all the answers and evo-devo is a relatively new area of investigation, but it does explain the appearance of novelty on the basis of developmental plasticity.
     
  14. Heaven-Sent

    Heaven-Sent New Member

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    Your right, I wish I understood the theory of evolution and how something with no wings can suddenly decide it needs wing, so it slowly evolves them over millions of years.

    If there is no greater power, or life force driving the change of the DNA to gradually grow wings, it would be left entirely to chance. In that case the chances of millions of succesful mutations to gradually evolve wings would take more than a trillion years, if at all.
     
  15. Exiledoomsayer

    Exiledoomsayer Only toke me 1 year to work out how to change this

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    I would prefer a real world example of #2 Im sure you can find one all mutations are harmfull or neutral right? please endulge me.
     
  16. Mike Elphick

    Mike Elphick Not so new...

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    But it's not "left entirely to chance". There is a feed-back mechanism, which is fully accepted by creationists, and it's called — natural selection:-

     
  17. Heaven-Sent

    Heaven-Sent New Member

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    #2 is real Google 5 legged cow
     
  18. Mike Elphick

    Mike Elphick Not so new...

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    These examples of deformities are not due to heritable genetic mutations, but are caused by various developmental anomalies, which might result from damage to the embryo or include organs from a conjoined twin. My cousin was found to have hair and teeth in her body from her identical twin.
     
  19. Heaven-Sent

    Heaven-Sent New Member

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    None the less it is a mutation.
     
  20. kharisym

    kharisym Guest

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