Getting Mad at Mass

[Monica02]

I was speaking to an African woman yesterday. In think Swahili is her native language. She said a lot of African nations have French as the official language that most people speak. I know she said Congo was one, not sure what other areas. So that would make sense as far as the OP goes, African man speaking French.

I know that French is spoken an some African nations. Most people know this.

The gentleman who did the first reading did not speak the language he was reading - it just seemed like he was reading it (I am sure he practiced beforehand but it was obviously not his native language). Nothing against him for doing that and, like I have posted several times, the whole foreign language issue in and of itself was no big deal. Anyhow - whether he speaks the language or not is not the point. The priest's smirky comment is the point.

 

[Tallguy88]

I know that French is spoken an some African nations. Most people know this.

The gentleman who did the first reading did not speak the language he was reading - it just seemed like he was reading it (I am sure he practiced beforehand but it was obviously not his native language). Nothing against him for doing that and, like I have posted several times, the whole foreign language issue in and of itself was no big deal. Anyhow - whether he speaks the language or not is not the point. The priest's smirky comment is the point.

Ah, ok. That makes sense if the guy reading didn't speak that language. That makes it sound more like it was more of a stunt rather than something legitimate.

 

[MikeK]

It was not the foreign language per se, it was the whole contrived set-up aspect and smug attitude of the priest that was offensive.

The only message I received from that homily was "All of you English speaking Americans out there are too stupid or self absorbed to know that all people on Earth do not speak English".

I wonder if that was his intended message or if "you aren't the center of the universe, get over yourselves and give until it hurts..." wasn't his intended message.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Teaching the Gospels and truths about Christ, ABSOLUTELY!!! But the context I am speaking of, and it is MY fault for not making it clear, is the social justice and cultural secular humanist teachability of which I speak. I've heard homilies get off on tangents and civil rights, illegal immigrants, and other bizarre things the priest has felt were more important than the readings or message of the liturgical calendar day. So, yes, you're 100% right about the liturgy of the Word and homily, etc. being teachable moments, but I'm not speaking to that. Of course the Catholic Mass should focus on the homily expanding the parishioner's horizons intellectually and morally with tying together the OT, NT, and epistle, getting them to think outside the box, but when it comes to much of the banality I've heard over the years, ugh, annoys me to no end! Thanks for pointing out my error.

At least in the west, the homily and readings - the whole liturgy of the word really - are a teaching moment.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Maybe that was the point. If it was, then I encourage it. One thing I do grow tired of as an American is this guilt trip conservatives put on folks who don't believe in "American Exceptionalism." My wife is Filipino as are my inlaws, and I've known so many foreigners who are vastly superior intellectually and morally to their American counter parts. I'm tired of our arrogance thinking we never need to learn anyone else's language---'they should learn OURS!' seems to be the prevailing opinion. We seem in some ways more closed to change and looking at the ways of other cultures than we've EVER been...

I wonder if that was his intended message or if "you aren't the center of the universe, get over yourselves and give until it hurts..." wasn't his intended message.

 

[Monica02]

I wonder if that was his intended message or if "you aren't the center of the universe, get over yourselves and give until it hurts..." wasn't his intended message.

What I wrote was what I understood the message to be. If "..center of the universe.." you wrote was his intended message I did not get it. I sort of mentally checked out after the smirky, s muggy "..not all Catholics speak mmmmm English..."

 

[bill5]

When I find myself bored or distracted at church, I look around the congregation (we have a small parish) and choose people in the congregation to pray for. Everyone has problems--many far greater than mine--and what a wonderful gift of prayer I can offer in my bored moments.

What a neat idea.

as a non-American and non-native speaker it irks me somewhat that so many people just assume that everyone speaks English.

...in America. You appear to have forgotten that little detail. Yeah what's up with expecting a Mass and readings in America to be in English? What's next, a Mass in France spoken in French? A Mass in Spain spoken in Spanish? Those evil bigots.

Thankfully there's little of this in the Catholic church but we've all heard the KJV-only crowd which believes God prefers English and that's just offensive.

No, that's ridiculous. "We all" haven't heard that.

This is America. The native language is English. Get over it. If I lived in France, I would be expected to speak and understand French (and so on and so on). I'm quite tired of people whining because they're expected to know English in America.

 

[graceandpeace]

I'm not sure what is typical in an RC parish for Pentecost, but I don't find it surprising that there would be an attempt to share in a language other than English.

At my Episcopal Church, the reading from Acts was printed in English & a handful of other languages, & the congregation was invited to read along in the language of their choice. Imagine that for a minute.

I did the best I could stumbling along in Spanish. I can read, pronounce, & understand some words & phrases, but not much beyond that. It was fun to try, though.

 

[Antigone]

Hey bill, you wanna take a deep breath? Relax. Think of your blood pressure.

...in America. You appear to have forgotten that little detail. Yeah what's up with expecting a Mass and readings in America to be in English? What's next, a Mass in France spoken in French? A Mass in Spain spoken in Spanish? Those evil bigots.

I wouldn't be mad if a service was said in German, French or Spanish. Then again, I can understand French, German and Spanish. I wouldn't be mad if part of a service was spoken in Xhosa or Zulu, even though I don't understand those languages. I'd think it was pretty neat.

The point is not that America is English-speaking. Yes, I know. Congratulations. It's a lovely language. The point isn't even that other languages are spoken across the globe. The point is that Catholicism is universal, not America-centric. Which, let's be honest, many (though not all) people at this forum tend to forget that. They also, like you, tend to get very angry when this is pointed out.

Maar we kunnen deze discussie ook best in een andere taal voortzetten, als je graag je punt wilt bewijzen.

No, that's ridiculous. "We all" haven't heard that.

Feel free to Google it, it's a thing. It's a little weird to get mad at me for it, but by all means look it up.

 

[pdudgeon]

Hey bill, you wanna take a deep breath? Relax. Think of your blood pressure.



I wouldn't be mad if a service was said in German, French or Spanish. Then again, I can understand French, German and Spanish. I wouldn't be mad if part of a service was spoken in Xhosa or Zulu, even though I don't understand those languages. I'd think it was pretty neat.

The point is not that America is English-speaking. Yes, I know. Congratulations. It's a lovely language. The point isn't even that other languages are spoken across the globe. The point is that Catholicism is universal, not America-centric. Which, let's be honest, many (though not all) people at this forum tend to forget that. They also, like you, tend to get very angry when this is pointed out.

Maar we kunnen deze discussie ook best in een andere taal voortzetten, als je graag je punt wilt bewijzen.



Feel free to Google it, it's a thing. It's a little weird to get mad at me for it, but by all means look it up.

the one point you're missing here is why people go to service in the first place.
They go to hear the word of God, to be taught, to assess their own works, deeds, and thinking against Gods word, and to come into a right understanding in their own life.

So the question is how can the people attending the service do all of that if they first cannot understand the word being spoken?

That is why the Vatican provides translations whenever a different language is being spoken, so that everyone can understand.
It is not enough to read a verse in French and leave it hanging out there for all to hear. In order for the word of God to fulfill it's purpose it must first be understood.

 

[MikeK]

So long as there were missals, what's the issue? I don't know Latin but have no problem following along at Traditional Latin Masses. For a sizable chunk of Church history, most parishioners did not speak the language of the Liturgy and often, the readings.

 

[St Antony]

So long as there were missals, what's the issue? I don't know Latin but have no problem following along at Traditional Latin Masses. For a sizable chunk of Church history, most parishioners did not speak the language of the Liturgy and often, the readings.

Hence, why Vatican II made changes in the liturgy to improve it and make mass more accessible to the parishioners. Most people would rather the mass be said in a language they can understand.

More to the point here, it appears this priest wasn't just saying the mass in a different language for the heck of it; he was doing it to score political points. That is why it is so objectionable, if that is what happened.

 

[MikeK]

Political points? I don't get that impression from what was reported. I also disagree with the idea that V2 "improved" the Liturgy.

 

[St Antony]

Political points? I don't get that impression from what was reported. I also disagree with the idea that V2 "improved" the Liturgy.

It just seemed like he was doing the mass that way to "celebrate diversity" but I don't have any information other than what was written, so that's just my opinion. As far as Vatican II, I'm too young to have experienced pre-Vatican II masses, but I can't imagine attending church and listening to the liturgy in a foreign tongue would be better. Maybe had I grown up with the Latin mass, I would embrace it.

 

[MikeK]

I highly recommend tracking down an Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest Parrish near you if there is one, the respect the show for the Mass is unsurpassed and the High Mass a true thing of beauty.

 

[James Is Back]

Mod Hat On

Thread closed for staff review.

Mod Hat Off

Edit by FreeinChrist - this thread is staying closed. There were just too many complaints for a short thread. ​