Gay preaching on proper sexuality: Born Gay

[AlAyeti]

HYPOTHETICAL:

For the sake of debate:

Homosexuality is a fixed and natural trait for a limited number of mankind.

Let's say the gay rights proponents have it right and Jesus, Peter, Paul are misrepresented and all of historic and written Christian doctrine, has it wrong about marriage and homosexuality and what IS being condemned is STRAIGHT PEOPLE engaging in homosexuality. Matthew 19: [QUOTE](4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.")[/QUOTE]

And Romans 1:


(26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.)

These scriptures do not apply to people "born gay."

That is what the gay position actually says. But wouldn't they would condemn non-gays for engaging in homosexuality?

Where is the support for anti-gay sex preaching TOWARDS straight people?

It is the gay rights position that ONLY a small percentage of people are born homosexual (in and out of The Church), or as they put it: people are born with a homosexual orientation. A preference exclusively for those of the same gender.

But this would then, make it wrong and sinful, for heterosexuals to engage in homosexuality.

Where are ALL of the Gay Preachers CONDEMNING homosexuality for NON-homosexuals, or rather, trying to reach them non-homosexuals that engage in homosexuality to repent?

"Straights" that engage in arsenokoite, homosexuality and/or gay sex are clearly doing what is not appropriate in gay religious beliefs?

THAT would be consistent IF gays have it right on the teaching of arsenokoites (homosexuality) being non-homosexuals doing what is obviosuly unnatural to them and for them as a sinful behavior and gay sex being acceptable for homosexuals.

Now, how, in light of Paul and all of Christian history do BI-SEXUALS find support? Would they have to make a choice of which gender to marry and find blessing within the Church?

Anything Goes!!! is NOT a Christian allowance either. Gay or Straight. Gay rights advocates claim that it would be wrong, sinful, and "unnatural" for homosexuals to marry someone of the opposite sex because, they say this would be living a lie.

What about homosexuality for non homosexuals? A people group that number in the 99.9% to maybe 95% of the populace. How do Gays preach sexual morality for the ENTIRE populace?

Let us hear from Gays and their support group about the preaching AGAINST homosexuality in that way.

Anyone?????

 

[brightmorningstar]

It seems no-one is interesting in defending why they dont preach what they claim.
One must assume they are only interested in getting same sex relations accepted for themselves.
Good observation. I also note that the pro-gay 'theology' never persues and explanation of this either.

 

[AlAyeti]

If they are claiming oneness of purpose "in" The Church, then I am interested to hear their preaching on proper behavior for all Christians within their views.

Hopefully our sister soldier Christian will opine.

 

[AngelusSax]

Um... I've never heard anyone, straight or gay or other, telling people who are straight to have gay sex... And seeing as how most people, at least here inthe western world, don't do sex-acts as worship to false gods, the act of straights engaging is homosexual sex isn't nearly the problem it once was. Now, there's prison situations where normally straight men rape other men for dominance, which is absolutely wrong and sinful, so perhaps we could rail against that, as it's a practice that we are more familiar with.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Surely straights engaing in homosexual acts is bi-sexual?

 

[I-can-see]

It is possible to be born gay, though it is still not natural in my opinion. This is why. Characteristics are past down from parents to child, most people think that this is limited physical characteristicts, but it is not. You ever wonder why people, who have never seen the father or mother before, are so like their parents? It is because, in order to survive, whatever habits we have are passed down to our children. I bet you Mohamad Ali's kid would knock the block off say...Ghandi's kid (if they both had one) any day of the week. Even if they did not know their parents. Ghandi was a peaceful man, and Ali was the opposite. So therefor his kid will have a knack for fighting. I have never met my father before, he was good with his hands, able to fix anything. So am I. So, if a persons family has a history of gayness, then most likely the children will feel the same desires. It is simply the passing down of habits to your children. It does not make homosexuality right, simply because it is passed down though. Would it justify Ali's kid if he was overly violent simply because the trait was passed down to him? No it wouldn't. Despite what has been passed down to use, we are responsible for our own actions.

 

[dayhiker]

I don't think the Bible is saying its a sin for straights to have homosexual sex. I have read a few who argue that. They make some sense, but I just don't see God being concern about that.

I do believe a small percent of people are born gay. I think its unloving to condemn those people for the way they are born and I don't see God condemning them anywhere in the Bible.

What I do see God condemning is homosexual sex that is centered around idolitry.

dayhiker

 

[I-can-see]

I don't think the Bible is saying its a sin for straights to have homosexual sex. I have read a few who argue that. They make some sense, but I just don't see God being concern about that.

I do believe a small percent of people are born gay. I think its unloving to condemn those people for the way they are born and I don't see God condemning them anywhere in the Bible.

What I do see God condemning is homosexual sex that is centered around idolitry.

dayhiker

There are a lot of things people THINK God wouldn't have a problem with...that doesn't make it a good thing. We are Gods creations, we are to do what God has MADE us to do. If that were not the case then sin would not exist. Everything has it's order, changing the order in something as small as a atom has catastrophic results.

 

[AlAyeti]

It is possible to be born gay, though it is still not natural in my opinion.

That is what gays and their supporters say. If it is the case, then wouldn't "Christian morality" still aply to their lives and love?

This is why. Characteristics are past down from parents to child, most people think that this is limited physical characteristicts, but it is not. You ever wonder why people, who have never seen the father or mother before, are so like their parents? It is because, in order to survive, whatever habits we have are passed down to our children. I bet you Mohamad Ali's kid would knock the block off say...Ghandi's kid (if they both had one) any day of the week. Even if they did not know their parents. Ghandi was a peaceful man, and Ali was the opposite. So therefor his kid will have a knack for fighting. I have never met my father before, he was good with his hands, able to fix anything. So am I. So, if a persons family has a history of gayness, then most likely the children will feel the same desires. It is simply the passing down of habits to your children. It does not make homosexuality right, simply because it is passed down though. Would it justify Ali's kid if he was overly violent simply because the trait was passed down to him? No it wouldn't. Despite what has been passed down to use, we are responsible for our own actions.

Homosexuals cannot produce offspring in a homosexual physical union. How would homosexuality be passed through to offspring if you cannot have them?

 

[AngelusSax]

Homosexuals cannot produce offspring in a homosexual physical union. How would homosexuality be passed through to offspring if you cannot have them?

Sperm banks.

Also, for many years, many gay people lived heterosexual lives to avoid being killed or shunned from society. Some still try to live heterosexually. Perhaps this is how it can be "passed down".

Surely straights engaing in homosexual acts is bi-sexual?

Maybe, maybe not. Some situations, like in prison, it's a do-or-be-done situation. Sometimes foreign objects that aren't part of the doer's body are used, sometimes not. Though in some cases, yeah, there may be some bisexuality going on there. But then, if one is bisexual, one isn't "straight engaging in homosexual sex". Straight means no attraction to the same sex in that regard. So if one is bisexual, one is bisexual, not straight. Though it would be easier to just pick one, I'd imagine.

 

[AlAyeti]

Sperm banks.

What? Why? To have gay offspring out there in the world? I'm not getting you there. Isn't nature itself saying that gay stops with the individual so conditioned?

Also, for many years, many gay people lived heterosexual lives to avoid being killed or shunned from society.

I've asked this before, why are homosexuals held in such a horrendous light? If, it and they are such wonderful people (like Elton John), why such intense animosity running throughout history towards "them."

Some still try to live heterosexually. Perhaps this is how it can be "passed down".

So then, a homosexual can have sex the predominat way. It is NOT asking them the impossible to live in a male-female relationship. Is this not the sacrifice asked of them in the Bible? That sure seems a small price tp pay. Let's say that the paradigm were opposite and I was forced to be married to a wonderful guy?

Maybe, maybe not. Some situations, like in prison, it's a do-or-be-done situation.

So you preach that when in Rome become a sex slave or dominant rapist?

Sometimes foreign objects that aren't part of the doer's body are used, sometimes not.

They call them Fifi's (in jail).

Though in some cases, yeah, there may be some bisexuality going on there. But then, if one is bisexual, one isn't "straight engaging in homosexual sex".

How do you justify bi-sexuality in Christ?

Straight means no attraction to the same sex in that regard. So if one is bisexual, one is bisexual, not straight. Though it would be easier to just pick one, I'd imagine.

I'm just thinking me now, but if I can be aroused by another guy, I am not straight. Yet, it seems quite easy in prison since homosexuality is ubiquitous there. What would a Gay Preacher preach about this?

 

[AngelusSax]

What? Why? To have gay offspring out there in the world? I'm not getting you there. Isn't nature itself saying that gay stops with the individual so conditioned?

Many gay people (well, men in the case) want kids, but know they can't do it the traditional way, so they either donate to a specific receptor (perhaps a woman wanting a kid but can't find any guys who aren't either gay or scumbag chauvanists or whatever), or if they want to get paid for a random donation in some places, there's sperm banks. Eventually they wind up with an offspring they may pass on their gayness to.

I've asked this before, why are homosexuals held in such a horrendous light? If, it and they are such wonderful people (like Elton John), why such intense animosity running throughout history towards "them."

Probably the same reason many people have (or had) the same animosity toward blacks in this country. They're different, and different = bad. Bad = scary. Scary = do bad things to them so we don't need to feel scared anymore.

So then, a homosexual can have sex the predominat way. It is NOT asking them the impossible to live in a male-female relationship. Is this not the sacrifice asked of them in the Bible? That sure seems a small price tp pay. Let's say that the paradigm were opposite and I was forced to be married to a wonderful guy?

Well, some can and some can't. Some spiral into self-loathing and kill themselves. That's a much bigger price to pay. One can make the argument they are asked to be "eunuchs" for the Lord, remaining celibate, but then again, not everyone has ears to hear this either. There's not one cookie-cutter solution for all gay people. If you were forced to be married to a wonderful guy, then you'd be forced to live a lie.

So you preach that when in Rome become a sex slave or dominant rapist?

No. I'm saying that's the sinful reality of the situation may times, but that doesn't equate automitcally with bisexuality.

How do you justify bi-sexuality in Christ?

I don't, actually. I've got nothing but my own gut-reaction to bisexuality specifically, but that gut-reaction is to make every effort to wind up in a heterosexual relationship. It is certainly easier, and there's much less ridicule.

Of course, if God were to send me a vision or a booming voice saying otherwise, I'd rethink my gut-reaction on that. I don't see that happening though.

I'm just thinking me now, but if I can be aroused by another guy, I am not straight. Yet, it seems quite easy in prison since homosexuality is ubiquitous there. What would a Gay Preacher preach about this?

You'd have to ask a Gay Preacher. I'm neither a preacher nor gay.

 

[BigBadWlf]

HYPOTHETICAL:

For the sake of debate:

Homosexuality is a fixed and natural trait for a limited number of mankind.

That is what all the evidence shows.

And by the same token we can say that heterosexuality is a natural and fixed trait for a limited number of people.

I don’t get why the underline emphasis

Let's say the gay rights proponents have it right and Jesus, Peter, Paul are misrepresented and all of historic and written Christian doctrine, has it wrong about marriage and homosexuality and what IS being condemned is STRAIGHT PEOPLE engaging in homosexuality.

No one is saying anything of the sort.

Perhaps you would do well to actually read what people post
.

That is what the gay position actually says. But wouldn't they would condemn non-gays for engaging in homosexuality?

And who exactly is doing that?

Where is the support for anti-gay sex preaching TOWARDS straight people?

This is kind of like asking what is wrong with teaching racism to white people

It is the gay rights position that ONLY a small percentage of people are born homosexual (in and out of The Church), or as they put it: people are born with a homosexual orientation. A preference exclusively for those of the same gender.

But this would then, make it wrong and sinful, for heterosexuals to engage in homosexuality.

Again …exactly what heterosexuals are doing this?

Where are ALL of the Gay Preachers CONDEMNING homosexuality for NON-homosexuals, or rather, trying to reach them non-homosexuals that engage in homosexuality to repent?

"Straights" that engage in arsenokoite, homosexuality and/or gay sex are clearly doing what is not appropriate in gay religious beliefs?

Well since arsenokoites seems to mean paying a woman for sex there are a lot of people condemning prostitution

THAT would be consistent IF gays have it right on the teaching of arsenokoites (homosexuality) being non-homosexuals doing what is obviosuly unnatural to them and for them as a sinful behavior and gay sex being acceptable for homosexuals.

Again you would do well to read what people post…then you might realize no one is making any sort of claim like this about the word arsenokoites

Now, how, in light of Paul and all of Christian history do BI-SEXUALS find support? Would they have to make a choice of which gender to marry and find blessing within the Church?

Anything Goes!!! is NOT a Christian allowance either. Gay or Straight. Gay rights advocates claim that it would be wrong, sinful, and "unnatural" for homosexuals to marry someone of the opposite sex because, they say this would be living a lie.

So living a life where you must lie about love, romance, and the desire to be married is not living a lie….

What about homosexuality for non homosexuals? A people group that number in the 99.9% to maybe 95% of the populace. How do Gays preach sexual morality for the ENTIRE populace?

Let us hear from Gays and their support group about the preaching AGAINST homosexuality in that way.

Anyone?????

Next time you try to construct a hypothetical for debate…try actually understanding the points you are debating

 

[BigBadWlf]

Homosexuals cannot produce offspring in a homosexual physical union. How would homosexuality be passed through to offspring if you cannot have them?

You do know that one third of same gendered couples in the United States are raising children don’t you?

And BTW the children of gays and lesbians are no more and no less likely to grow up to be homosexual than their heterosexually raised peers

 

[AlAyeti]

You do know that one third of same gendered couples in the United States are raising children don’t you?

The slide to Sodom and Gomorrah has long since begun in the United States.

And BTW the children of gays and lesbians are no more and no less likely to grow up to be homosexual than their heterosexually raised peers

The evidence for that is way off in the distance.

The Murphy Brown Un-Wed mother debate has shown that Vice President Dan Quayle was 100% correct in his position. There is no snide sarcasm and distasteful comback you can sling that can alter that fact.

Your other post addreessing the OP was nothing but evading and vitriol. I read posts and that is why I created this thread. Gays proclaim they are morally sound citizens of The Church and seeing one of you gay rights advocates coming alongside the morality preaching that literally fills the Christian life portrayed in the New Testament and preached every Sunday would be a nice thing to see.

Try again.

 

[AlAyeti]

Probably the same reason many people have (or had) the same animosity toward blacks in this country. They're different, and different = bad. Bad = scary. Scary = do bad things to them so we don't need to feel scared anymore.

I agree wholeheartedly that Blacks in America have been mistreated. But gay is a behavior not a race.

Well, some can and some can't. Some spiral into self-loathing and kill themselves.

I only know of guys that have commited suicide because of their relationship with another gay guy. It had nothing to do with Jerry Falwell or the Bible. It had to do with how their partner treated them.

That's a much bigger price to pay. One can make the argument they are asked to be "eunuchs" for the Lord, remaining celibate, but then again, not everyone has ears to hear this either. There's not one cookie-cutter solution for all gay people. If you were forced to be married to a wonderful guy, then you'd be forced to live a lie.

Not if I was living what Christ proclaimed and the Apsotles taught.

No. I'm saying that's the sinful reality of the situation may times, but that doesn't equate automitcally with bisexuality.

I would think that Gay preaching would say morally, you need to choose "if" you want to live a sound Christian life. Having sex all over the place - I'm assuming - is even not OK for gays.

I don't, actually. I've got nothing but my own gut-reaction to bisexuality specifically, but that gut-reaction is to make every effort to wind up in a heterosexual relationship. It is certainly easier, and there's much less ridicule.

Where? Bi-Sexuals are heroes in this most certainly secular culture.

Of course, if God were to send me a vision or a booming voice saying otherwise, I'd rethink my gut-reaction on that. I don't see that happening though.

The Bible contains teachings on proper sexuality. Does it not?

You'd have to ask a Gay Preacher. I'm neither a preacher nor gay.

I was hoping that one of you gay rights people would take up the challenge of this thread and show us anti-gay rights Christians how your ways are no different than any other Christian perspective.

Care a go at it?

 

[KnowWhatJesusDid]

BORN GAY? DOESN'T MATTER YOU ARE STILL HELD ACCOUNTABLE

First, let me state that this post is not for argument. I am not going to quote any particular piece of Scripture in this post. This is my take on exactly how the Lord has interpreted His Word to me. I felt the need to make the post because I have had a number of people ask me about this issue. My Opinion doesn't matter.... Neither does Yours.... God's Word, the Bible is Our FINAL AUTHORITY.

When people say that they are BORN Homosexual/Bisexual here is what I believe....

EVEN if you are born that way, you are STILL held accountable for your acting upon these Tendancies. Here is why...

WE are ALL Born Sinners... We cannot help that... However, God DOES hold us accountable for our sins. It is up to us to Accept Christ, put our sins under the Blood of Him, and Resist our Sinful Nature.

The Same goes for those whom Claim that they are BORN Homo/Bi. You may be Born that way, but you MUST Accept Christ, put those tendancies under His Blood and RESIST that Sinful Nature.

Also, for the Homosexuals... Maybe God doesn't want you to have a life partner here on this Temporal World. Maybe, God wants your sole, undivided attention to Himself.

Just a Thought....

 

[AlAyeti]

BORN GAY? DOESN'T MATTER YOU ARE STILL HELD ACCOUNTABLE

First, let me state that this post is not for argument. I am not going to quote any particular piece of Scripture in this post. This is my take on exactly how the Lord has interpreted His Word to me. I felt the need to make the post because I have had a number of people ask me about this issue. My Opinion doesn't matter.... Neither does Yours.... God's Word, the Bible is Our FINAL AUTHORITY.

When people say that they are BORN Homosexual/Bisexual here is what I believe....

EVEN if you are born that way, you are STILL held accountable for your acting upon these Tendancies. Here is why...

WE are ALL Born Sinners... We cannot help that... However, God DOES hold us accountable for our sins. It is up to us to Accept Christ, put our sins under the Blood of Him, and Resist our Sinful Nature.

The Same goes for those whom Claim that they are BORN Homo/Bi. You may be Born that way, but you MUST Accept Christ, put those tendancies under His Blood and RESIST that Sinful Nature.

Also, for the Homosexuals... Maybe God doesn't want you to have a life partner here on this Temporal World. Maybe, God wants your sole, undivided attention to Himself.

Just a Thought....

Wow, that's petty conservative.

The point of this thread would be of a Gay Preacher preaching on the parameters of gay life. There's too much anger and vitriol attached to gay debates, and I thought if some gay rights person would show a similar sermon-style approach as you would hear in a standard traditional Church towards sexuality of the common variety.

 

[OllieFranz]

Homosexuals cannot produce offspring in a homosexual physical union. How would homosexuality be passed through to offspring if you cannot have them?

Sperm banks.

Also, for many years, many gay people lived heterosexual lives to avoid being killed or shunned from society. Some still try to live heterosexually. Perhaps this is how it can be "passed down".

Also, remember that they got all of their genes from their parents. Who may have had other children, who would then pass on the genes to their children (the gay person's nieces and nephews).

In fact one of the evidences for a genetic basis in orientation is that in many families where there are a higher than average percentage of gay men, there are also a higher than average percentage of women with higher fertility rates. It seems likely that a single gene is responsible for both effects. So that the effect in the women accounts for a higher survivability rate for the gene over the generations. Which is another reason the gene doesn't die out "because gays can't reproduce."

 

[AlAyeti]

Also, remember that they got all of their genes from their parents. Who may have had other children, who would then pass on the genes to their children (the gay person's nieces and nephews).

In fact one of the evidences for a genetic basis in orientation is that in many families where there are a higher than average percentage of gay men, there are also a higher than average percentage of women with higher fertility rates. It seems likely that a single gene is responsible for both effects. So that the effect in the women accounts for a higher survivability rate for the gene over the generations. Which is another reason the gene doesn't die out "because gays can't reproduce."

One good thing to dwell on, is that gay rights advocates constantly bring up that gays ONLY want consensual sex.

That means its a choice behavior. As is any sin.