Gay Marriage

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Nadiine

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Absolutely as I said when I initiated that post. That's because Satan is the father of lies and will entice people to lie to justify sin. But their lies aren't even subtle. ^_^ So they only look foolish and all they'll get will be hell for all their lies. There are few things more tragic than that. :(
I've been saying that Satan doesn't even have to
WORK at what he does anymore - he can just expose himself and
nobody gives a crap - OR doesn't spot it for what it is anyways.

It used to be that he really had to hide his lies and counterfeits -
but not anymore. In fact, people who profess Christ these days,
actually fight for the counterfeit without a concern.

Sounds like Romans 1
Romans 1:29-32

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers,
30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
 
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Tissue

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But God has a monopoly on truth which is why God is not divided. So he will not tell one person one thing and someone else the opposite. That's why Paul says in 1 Corinthiansd11:19, "No doubt there have to be divisions among you to show which of you has God's approval." So since God's word doesn't lie and people do, then only those who don't contradict any scripture are correct.

You don't have a monopoly on God either. God doesn't reveal everything to all, and there are a large number of people who feel that God has revealed something to them but are mistaken.

This is clearly demonstrated by finding two Christians who believe two different things but both claim the inspiration of God (which is not at all hard to do).

Why should I believe you have been revealed to, over and against someone else who makes the exact same claim of revelation but for a different truth claim? I've no doubt you sincerely believe you have the direct revelation from God on this matter, just as I would not doubt the sincerity of someone else who makes the opposite claim. But I am skeptical in both instances of the actual revelation. If I believed every Christian I met regarding the inspiration of God, I would have some warped beliefs.

Problem is, there's really no way for us to have a discussion if you think you've been revealed to, as nothing I can say would make you believe otherwise, and nothing you can say would make me believe you.
 
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peace4ever

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You don't have a monopoly on God either. God doesn't reveal everything to all, and there are a large number of people who feel that God has revealed something to them but are mistaken.

This is clearly demonstrated by finding two Christians who believe two different things but both claim the inspiration of God (which is not at all hard to do).

Why should I believe you have been revealed to, over and against someone else who makes the exact same claim of revelation but for a different truth claim? I've no doubt you sincerely believe you have the direct revelation from God on this matter, just as I would not doubt the sincerity of someone else who makes the opposite claim. But I am skeptical in both instances of the actual revelation. If I believed every Christian I met regarding the inspiration of God, I would have some warped beliefs.

Problem is, there's really no way for us to have a discussion if you think you've been revealed to, as nothing I can say would make you believe otherwise, and nothing you can say would make me believe you.

Again, it's very simple to discern between false and true teaching; If someone makes a statement than cannot be back up by scripture, then that person is not speaking for God, nor is anyone who interprets scripture to contradict other scripture because God doesn't contradict Himself. It's that simple.:)

So all you need is scripture which Jesus tells us in Matthew 4:4, "For it is written; 'Man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes out of the mouth of God." Jesus also tells us in MT.23;9 that we have ONE teacher and that is Christ. So only when you know all of Christ's words will you be able to spot those who contradict them.

So only when you know scripture thoroughly, will you be able to spot who's speaking for God and who is not. Those who don't know scripture that well, should listen and ask questions until they've read the bible thoroughly.:wave:
 
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Tissue

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Again, it's very simple to discern between false and true teaching;

I like to learn and read and study. One of the things I've noticed is that, the more I study any subject, the more complicated and intricate it becomes. Simplicity can only be maintained if one is shallow in their observation.

If someone makes a statement than cannot be back up by scripture, then that person is not speaking for God, nor is anyone who interprets scripture to contradict other scripture because God doesn't contradict Himself. It's that simple.:)

Slavery was backed up with Scripture as recently as the 19th century. The Crusades were backed by Scripture.

So all you need is scripture which Jesus tells us in Matthew 4:4, "For it is written; 'Man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes out of the mouth of God." Jesus also tells us in MT.23;9 that we have ONE teacher and that is Christ. So only when you know all of Christ's words will you be able to spot those who contradict them.

There's a lot more to Christianity than Scripture.
 
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peace4ever

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I like to learn and read and study. One of the things I've noticed is that, the more I study any subject, the more complicated and intricate it becomes. Simplicity can only be maintained if one is shallow in their observation.



Slavery was backed up with Scripture as recently as the 19th century. The Crusades were backed by Scripture.



There's a lot more to Christianity than Scripture.

Actually Jesus said in Matthew 11:25-27, "I praise you good Father, Lord of heaven and earth for having hidden these things from the wise and learned and revealing them to little children. For that was your good pleasure."

Most of the words in the bible we all learned in elementary school. The bible contains words like "it", "the' "you' "can" "cannot", etc. So they're easily understandable which they have to be since Jesus reveals the truth to those whom come to him like a child. So the problem isn't in understanding the bible, the problem is in believing the bible. :)

But as Ephesians 2:8-9 explains, faith is a gift from God so that no one can boast. So you can't believe the bible with human understanding since God has allowed Satan to blind our eyes to the truth. You thus have to ask the Holy Spirit to enter your heart then once you have that faith, you'll see how simple the words really are. :wave:
 
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Tissue

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Actually Jesus said in Matthew 11:25-27, "I praise you good Father, Lord of heaven and earth for having hidden these things from the wise and learned and revealing them to little children. For that was your good pleasure."

Most of the words in the bible we all learned in elementary school. The bible contains words like "it", "the' "you' "can" "cannot", etc. So they're easily understandable which they have to be since Jesus reveals the truth to those whom come to him like a child. So the problem isn't in understanding the bible, the problem is in believing the bible. :)

There's a lot of Scripture I still don't understand. Abraham's 'sacrifice' of Isaac. Revelation. Trinitarian theology. I understand these things a heck of a lot better now that I am more learned than when I was younger, however.

A child can understand the phrase 'God exists'. A child likely can not understand the 'teleological suspension of the ethical', in Kierkegaard's analysis of Abraham.

But as Ephesians 2:8-9 explains, faith is a gift from God so that no one can boast. So you can't believe the bible with human understanding since God has allowed Satan to blind our eyes to the truth. You thus have to ask the Holy Spirit to enter your heart and the words in the bible will become crystal clear. :wave:

If that is true, then how come so many individuals who believe they are empowered by the Holy Spirit believe such different things? I'll bet you I can find a Christian who is just as convinced as you are that the Holy Spirit reveals things to them, and who interprets Scripture in an entirely different manner. Is your conclusion that these people are mistaken? If so many are mistaken, then, how can you be certain that you are not mistaken?
 
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peace4ever

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There's a lot of Scripture I still don't understand. Abraham's 'sacrifice' of Isaac. Revelation. Trinitarian theology. I understand these things a heck of a lot better now that I am more learned than when I was younger, however.

A child can understand the phrase 'God exists'. A child likely can not understand the 'teleological suspension of the ethical', in Kierkegaard's analysis of Abraham.



If that is true, then how come so many individuals who believe they are empowered by the Holy Spirit believe such different things? I'll bet you I can find a Christian who is just as convinced as you are that the Holy Spirit reveals things to them, and who interprets Scripture in an entirely different manner. Is your conclusion that these people are mistaken? If so many are mistaken, then, how can you be certain that you are not mistaken?

As always, you'll find the answer in the bible. I already quoted the main reason in 2 Timothy 4:3. If you believe that verse, you'll have the answer to your question. :wave:
 
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Fade to Gray

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1) They create families where no one in the family is related to each other and don't know their ancestors
Sure, but if you're worried about children knowing who their ancestors are (and I'm not sure why this should matter to a family unit, exactly), then are you going to forbid heterosexual couples to adopt as well?

2) Children of homosexual marriages have no clue what a husband and wife are and what each represents because it's arbitrary between each homosexual couple
Perhaps if those children and their parents lived in complete seclusion from the rest of the world somewhere.

3) Children of a homosexual marriage have only one gender role model so they have no clue how a man and a woman are to treat each other in an intimate relationship
Again, only if they lived in complete seclusion.

4) Children of a homosexual marriage are programmed to believe that sex between people of the same sex is what they're supposed to do as adults since children look up to their parents.
As someone else pointed out--are children of heterosexual couples programmed to be straight? If so, then why is it that some children of heterosexual couples are gay?

5) Children of a homosexual marriage who have any inclinations toward homosexuality are thus given a license to experiment as adults when they wouldn't do so if society didn't embrace homosexuality. So homosexuality will keep increasing with each generation
To tell you the truth, I don't think this has anything to do with your argument. Your claim is that gay marriage will harm the family unit--this is an argument as to how gay marriage will increase homsexuality.

6) Children of a homosexual marriage have zero ideas about what boundaries are between people since sex is the main reason that their parents want to be together in the first place. If the homosexual parents simply wanted to live together as room-mates, then there's no need for them to "marry" each other in the first place.
Okay, and if heterosexual parents simply wanted to live together as roommates, then there's no need for them to marry each other, either. It's all about the sex. Unless you're allowing for actual love and respect to be added into the equation, in which case here's the flaw in your argument--gay couples do not just marry for sex, but for the same reasons heterosexual couples do.

7)Children of homosexual marriages will thus grow up, not knowing how to relate to people of their own gender since they think it's okay to be sexually intimate with anyone.
Isn't this something of a rephrasing of point number four?

8) Children of a homosexual marriage have no clue what a mother and father are or what each represents since the "mother" and "father are arbitrary between each couple. So who they call their mother and who they call their father becomes so confusing to them that it alienates them in society and causes irrevocable confusion about what parents are supposed to do and be.
Seclusion--that's the only way for this to work.
 
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Tissue

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As always, you'll find the answer in the bible. I already quoted the main reason in 2 Timothy 4:3. If you believe that verse, you'll have the answer to your question. :wave:

You haven't addressed my response. You are apparently concluding that everyone who claims that the Holy Spirit has inspired them with the interpretation of Scripture and does not believe the same things you do is mistaken. But you must include in this 'mistaken' category many people who are smarter, wiser, and older than you are. Does this not incline you to wonder whether or not you are mistaken, then? Certainly these people do not think they are mistaken, and if wise and smart elders might be mistaken, why can't you be?
 
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peace4ever

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You haven't addressed my response. You are apparently concluding that everyone who claims that the Holy Spirit has inspired them with the interpretation of Scripture and does not believe the same things you do is mistaken. But you must include in this 'mistaken' category many people who are smarter, wiser, and older than you are. Does this not incline you to wonder whether or not you are mistaken, then? Certainly these people do not think they are mistaken, and if wise and smart elders might be mistaken, why can't you be?

I referred you to scripture for the answer because only God's word is infallible. So why do you ask me instead of God?:confused: Do you think I know more than He does? :eek: If not, then your best bet is to find answers from God Himself in His word. :thumbsup:
 
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peace4ever

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Your verse doesn't answer my question. I'm asking you how you know that you are inspired and everyone else who doesn't agree with you isn't. 2 Timothy 4:3 doesn't talk about that at all.

Only those whose beliefs can be backed up by scripture are speaking for God. ;)

John 6:18, "He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself. But the one who speaks for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him."

So those whose beliefs can't be backed up by scripture don't have scriptural authority for their beliefs. It's that simple. :wave:So it would be wise for you to know scripture so well that you can spot those whose beliefs can't be backed up by scripture. Otherwise, you can't spot a false teacher if he stood right in front of you.
 
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JustAsIam77

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Homosexual acts/unions/marriage is an abomination according to scripture.

If scripture is required let me know. It's been posted already dozens of times. This topic goes round and round.

If one doesn't take scripture as the inerrant Word of God then it means nothing. We have no guide as Christians as to right or wrong.
 
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Nadiine

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Homosexual acts/unions/marriage is an abomination according to scripture.

If scripture is required let me know. It's been posted already dozens of times. This topic goes round and round.

If one doesn't take scripture as the inerrant Word of God then it means nothing. We have no guide as Christians as to right or wrong.
yep:thumbsup:
That's the bottom line here - "has God said?"

Those who accept His word agree that this is sin.
Those who do not, disagree and choose their own [spiritual] truths.
It's very simple.

Hopefully guests will read the passages and be open to hearing God's word
 
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HaloHope

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1) They create families where no one in the family is related to each other and don't know their ancestors

Irrelevant, love and support makes a family nothing else particularly matters.

2) Children of homosexual marriages have no clue what a husband and wife are and what each represents because it's arbitrary between each homosexual couple

Gender roles are pointless, children with same-sex parents will simply realise that two people who love each other are what constitutes parents "husband and wife" roles do not matter.

3) Children of a homosexual marriage have only one gender role model so they have no clue how a man and a woman are to treat each other in an intimate relationship

Unless the children never leave the house and the couple have no opposite gender friends this again is pointless argument. Also it shouldnt be about how a man and woman treat each other in an intimate relationship, it should be about how consenting adults do so, how people who love one another do so. Once again gender is irrelevant.

4) Children of a homosexual marriage are programmed to believe that sex between people of the same sex is what they're supposed to do as adults since children look up to their parents.

Nonsense, the only difference is gay couples may be more understanding, accepting and loving than some hetrosexual couples if their child turns out bi or gay.

5) Children of a homosexual marriage who have any inclinations toward homosexuality are thus given a license to experiment as adults when they wouldn't do so if society didn't embrace homosexuality. So homosexuality will keep increasing with each generation

Oh noes teh gays are coming!!!! Rubbish.

6) Children of a homosexual marriage have zero ideas about what boundaries are between people since sex is the main reason that their parents want to be together in the first place. If the homosexual parents simply wanted to live together as room-mates, then there's no need for them to "marry" each other in the first place.

Now I don't want to discuss my own sex life in detail but I assure you that the main reason my partner and I got together was to share life together, be happy together and try to create our own family. Sex didnt come into it whatsoever.

7)Children of homosexual marriages will thus grow up, not knowing how to relate to people of their own gender since they think it's okay to be sexually intimate with anyone.


Again nonsense, are you just pulling these points randomley out of the air or something? Thinking it's ok for people to be straight, bi or gay is a good thing and certainly dosen't mean they think it will be ok to be sexually intimate with anyone. My partner and I may be gay but we believe in monogamy and trying to make one relationship work for life.

8) Children of a homosexual marriage have no clue what a mother and father are or what each represents since the "mother" and "father are arbitrary between each couple. So who they call their mother and who they call their father becomes so confusing to them that it alienates them in society and causes irrevocable confusion about what parents are supposed to do and be.

Again rubbish. You clearly have no idea how society is changing in many areas and how irrelevant this will eventually be.

For starters. Thus, homosexual marriage cause irreversible damage and confusion to the children in those families which creates even more confused people for the next generation. And all that damage just so two people can act on their lust. There can hardly be few things more selfish.

For starters, some hetrosexual parents cause irreversible damage to their gay children when they criticise and degrade them when they come out. These children will grow up to self-hate, self-harm, and possibly commit suicide. All because two selfish bigots can't deal with people being different, there can hardly be anything more pure evil.
 
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Nadiine

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So why didn't they bang on the door demanding Lot's
virgin daughters? Or any other daughters in the town
for that matter?
They had free pickins' in the city - anywhere in the city.

(that would make them bisexual btw).

They know that the men in Sodom all engaged in homosexuality. They're just trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and not doing a very good job of it either. ^_^
I'll just say this, if these were my rebuttals to what was presented
to me, I'd be having serious worries about my position at this point.

I was referring to the person doing the forcing--the rapist. A man who rapes another man is not necessarily a homosexual. Once again, "rape often has much less to do with sexual attraction than you would think."


Because the attempted rape wasn't about sex--it was about humiliating (and perhaps killing) the strangers in the town. Which is actually proved by your comment about "free pickins." Because that also means that if they really wished to have homosexual sex, they could have had it with anyone they wished--but instead they attempt to rape the men Lot had taken in. It's obviously not about the sex.
My, this is some fancy footwork you're doing here ^_^

Now you're claiming to know their motive in wanting these men too?
Oh it CAN'T be what the BIBLE portrays clearly as they're HOMOSEXUALS, it's just GOT to be something else!

Yet Jude also confirms this with their lust for "strange flesh".
And Ezekiel confirms it by the "abominations" in the charge against
them by God.
Lev. 18 and 20 both call it abomination specifically.

At the very least, they're clearly BIsexual in that they had free
pickins in the city and went for MALES to take down.
They rejected the female offered them.
Would a totally straight male who needed to rape (4 control)
someone, go after a male when he has free choice of either sex?

Am I to assume that a male who rapes a female is ONLY doing it becuz
it's about violence/domination - so why did he pick a FEMALE?
Why do pedophiles pick male or female children to molest?
Could it possibly be that they have a sexual bent towards a
particular sex maybe??

If it's about control, then they would seek to control whichever SEX
turns them on. (men cant' just fake arousal you know) ;)
 
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