Gay, Catholic, and Doing Fine

[MikeK]

You have done a fine job of articulating the problem with the current system. Though the argument goes that married-filing-jointly benefits help parents of children, they are not unique to parents. There is reason for the government to subsidize two-parent households, there is no reason for them to create benefits for childless couples.

Here's where I have problems.

I agree with everything you just said.

But, I can also see the benefits for civil unions, too. Not just for gay couples, but any two people regardless of relationship or sexual status. Case in point. I'm not sure if I will ever get married. If not, I might like to enter into a civil union with someone for the tax benefits and legal protection. Completely non-sexual and Platonic. But I also know that it will mainly be used by gay couples to have a marriage-like relationship.

So while I'll continue to oppose gay marriage, if some sort of civil union bill were proposed, I might be willing to support it, given the right provisions.

 

[benedictaoo]

The suicide rate among homosexuals (probably the active ones) is still very high in proportion to heterosexuals even in places that are extremely accepting of them and have changed the definition of marriage to accommodate homosexual activists which goes to show that so-called "same-sex marriage" won't make gays happy.

So you think the reason why they kill themselves is not because of the stigma we have put on them but just because? Just for being gay in of itself?

This is totally useless, I know but here goes anyway... it's because of attitudes and insensitivity such as this. I know *you think* you are being good but instead, no, you are just being a hater. Bearing a very bad witness and you make the rest of us look bad.

Yes, society has accepted them (the sex) and gay marriage is being pushed and for you to actually be so arrogant and insensitive to think that is enough for them not to feel out of place still is outrageous but not for you... you with your 200 posts, I know who you are... you do not represent me as a Christian.

Gays and lesbians are not some other kind of human being God has created but they are just like us all. Except they have it much harder then we do because we can channel our lustful desires to make them right and they basically can't. Instead of empathy which encourages understanding, you display judgment and condemnation.

You can say theoretically that they can change SSA... You can say theoretically they made themselves this way, that it's not real... but you'd be a fool to say such a thing and this unacceptance and refusal to understand and comprehend this is what makes them depressed and the stigma, that they are some kind of freak is why they kill themselves.

So the misguided and misrepresenting Christian community will have to answer for the misguided "compassion" they show to gays and lesbians. IOW, you just are not helping out the cause here with the gay/ lesbian hate. One just may save your life one day and how will you feel then?

Now lets sit back and see how you will interpret this message as I am condoning gay marriage and same sex relationships and sex. No, I am not. I am condoning people , human beings we are called to love and treat well.

Stop seeing them as gay sex or gay marriage and see them as people. P-E-O-P-L-E.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

All I have to say is God bless that teenager in the linked article. I have a friend that's catholic and struggles with ssa and he is like a brother to me.
This teenager in the article trusts God over his own instincts .
He is what I call a true Catholic role model
Im putting him on my prayer lost

 

[Christian-Catholic]

So you think the reason why they kill themselves is not because of the stigma we have put on them but just because? Just for being gay in of itself?

This is totally useless, I know but here goes anyway... it's because of attitudes and insensitivity such as this. I know *you think* you are being good but instead, no, you are just being a hater. Bearing a very bad witness and you make the rest of us look bad.

Yes, society has accepted them (the sex) and gay marriage is being pushed and for you to actually be so arrogant and insensitive to think that is enough for them not to feel out of place still is outrageous but not for you... you with your 200 posts, I know who you are... you do not represent me as a Christian.

Gays and lesbians are not some other kind of human being God has created but they are just like us all. Except they have it much harder then we do because we can channel our lustful desires to make them right and they basically can't. Instead of empathy which encourages understanding, you display judgment and condemnation.

You can say theoretically that they can change SSA... You can say theoretically they made themselves this way, that it's not real... but you'd be a fool to say such a thing and this unacceptance and refusal to understand and comprehend this is what makes them depressed and the stigma, that they are some kind of freak is why they kill themselves.

So the misguided and misrepresenting Christian community will have to answer for the misguided "compassion" they show to gays and lesbians. IOW, you just are not helping out the cause here with the gay/ lesbian hate. One just may save your life one day and how will you feel then?

Now lets sit back and see how you will interpret this message as I am condoning gay marriage and same sex relationships and sex. No, I am not. I am condoning people , human beings we are called to love and treat well.

Stop seeing them as gay sex or gay marriage and see them as people. P-E-O-P-L-E.

I don't see people like this teenage guy as normal, I see him as a hero and a true catholic. I've never struggled with ssa but I have a friend that does, and I believe that people like him and the teen in the article are saints in the making.
Amazing people
God bless them

 

[benedictaoo]

There are already laws protecting people from domestic violence.

Also, it is loving to oppose recognition of same-sex couple's unions. If we were to condone it we would be condoning mortal sin and mortal sin sends people to Hell if they die in that sin. It is not loving to condone that which sends people to Hell.

You didn't understand what he said... so allow me to explain it. He said, we know same sex sex is wrong and gay and lesbian marriage is impossible but we as Christians (if that is who we are going to be) should support the correct treatment and protection of the gay and lesbian community as we do anybody else.

IOW, at the end of the day, at the end of the story they are people and as people the do deserve laws that protect them from hate, violence and discrimination.

They deserve civil protection under our law and not to be harassed or belittled as people because, well, they are people.

There is a difference with protecting them under our law and condoning the sexual acts. There is a difference with giving them rights under our law and condoning gay marriage.

So, let's not get it twisted. We allow for all kind of sin in this society and culture. Divorce laws, civil marriages. We are extremely tolerant of cohabitation, fornication and even teen pregnancy. Those sins have done a lot more to destroy the fabric of our society which is the family but we zero in on the gays and lesbians. Why? Why is that? Gay marriage is just one more rip in a already ripped up fabric.

All we are doing is trying to put toothpaste back in. We, hetros did this with our own sins... The barn door was left open and the animals been long gone. So, are we heterosexuals, are we really going to think it all rides on the gays? We're really putting it on their shoulders so they care bare the guilt? Yes, and that is why they want to kill themselves and their blood is on our hands because we are who have failed.

I think we should focus on how no one is going to Church on Sundays as a family anymore then on what gays and lesbians are doing.

All we can do is teach what is moral, good and right and be that example ourselves. No one is saying not to teach sexual morality but dang, we have to live it ourselves if we are going to preach and teach it.

So, lets draw the line there and focus our attention on what we do and leave the rest to God for his judgment.

 

[Amrak]

many gay men and lesbians are quite happy with their sexuality, out of the closet, happy, and ignore any hate. But for others they have a low self-esteem, but not just because of how they are represented in our society, but because they don't know how to deal with it. In this case there are two ways out. (because society is not going to change for at least 50 years) One can seek conversion to heterosexuality, or seek psychology for boosting their self-esteem and confidence, to live proud and to accept the fact that there'll always be haters, just like racism, or just like a young chubby teen, a ginger, or whatever, and they learn to overcome and to ignore the haters.

 

[benedictaoo]

Here's where I have problems.

I agree with everything you just said.

But, I can also see the benefits for civil unions, too. Not just for gay couples, but any two people regardless of relationship or sexual status. Case in point. I'm not sure if I will ever get married. If not, I might like to enter into a civil union with someone for the tax benefits and legal protection. Completely non-sexual and Platonic. But I also know that it will mainly be used by gay couples to have a marriage-like relationship.

So while I'll continue to oppose gay marriage, if some sort of civil union bill were proposed, I might be willing to support it, given the right provisions.

Well the Church has turned a blind eye to civil divorce (which as opened the flood gates to Church annulments and remarriage but I digress...) on the grounds of protecting children and property.

So why not be for a union between two people of any sex, same or other in order to protect kids and property?

It's all a house of cards. We allowed immorality and even justified it and now look, it's all coming down.

It's all or nothing... either we are going to live out our own rules or not. If not, we can't tell other people that they can't have it the same way.

 

[Tallguy88]

Well the Church has turned a blind eye to civil divorce (which as opened the flood gates to Church annulments and remarriage but I digress...) on the grounds of protecting children and property.

So why not be for a union between two people of any sex, same or other in order to protect kids and property?

It's all a house of cards. We allowed immorality and even justified it and now look, it's all coming down.

It's all or nothing... either we are going to live out our own rules or not. If not, we can't tell other people that they can't have it the same way.

Having seen the effects of an abusive marriage, I have no problem with civil divorce.

 

[Amrak]

many gay men and lesbians are quite happy with their sexuality, out of the closet, happy, and ignore any hate. But for others they have a low self-esteem, but not just because of how they are represented in our society, but because they don't know how to deal with it. In this case there are two ways out. (because society is not going to change for at least 50 years) One can seek conversion to heterosexuality, or seek psychology for boosting their self-esteem and confidence, to live proud and to accept the fact that there'll always be haters, just like racism, or just like a young chubby teen, a ginger, or whatever, and they learn to overcome and to ignore the haters.

I have a friend who seems to have been successful in his mission to convert using the Clinton Method after 3 weeks (not much time yet to tell, but he does seem very interested in women)

 

[WarriorAngel]

There's nothing loving about about opposing same-sex couple recognition in legislative protection from domestic violence.
Nor is it loving to oppose just about every other legal recognition, and then still claim support of equal treatment.
Though I guess if you want to be pedantic, they do claim homosexuals should be treated equally, it says nothing about their relationships.

I get that the Church is theologically against same-sex couples existing, but I really hate it being used as an excuse to deny the fair treatment of such couples.

As with those 'living in sin' - [hetero's] the law doesnt allow abuse. The law also makes them pay child custody [which often happens between these couples - having kids and breaking up] - and i am sure anyone with a living will - should ensure the other person [whosoever they are hetero or homo] receives what they want them to receive - should make their wishes known and pull up contracts - but legalizing them as married - no.

And if they don't, leave them alone and accept them for who they are... people.

I am so tired of your holier than thou attitude about how i relate to others.

I have [more than likely] more friends who suffer this dilemma than you even know of in your whole life.

And i dont pander to them having rights above nature itself.

SO stop talking to me on this... I will continue to teach in the same flippin light the Church does.
Dont like it - then do NOT read my posts.

 

[Rhamiel]

many gay men and lesbians are quite happy with their sexuality, out of the closet, happy, and ignore any hate. But for others they have a low self-esteem, but not just because of how they are represented in our society, but because they don't know how to deal with it. In this case there are two ways out. (because society is not going to change for at least 50 years) One can seek conversion to heterosexuality, or seek psychology for boosting their self-esteem and confidence, to live proud and to accept the fact that there'll always be haters, just like racism, or just like a young chubby teen, a ginger, or whatever, and they learn to overcome and to ignore the haters.

well there seems to be more then 2 ways

like the article in the OP
he chooses to live a virtuous and chaste life
Christ has voctory over sin and death

 

[WarriorAngel]

Hey everyone. That's not my article. I do struggle with temptations toward the same sex but that's not my article.

You have also - if i remember correctly - focused on the opposite sex. Sorry i misunderstood.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I have a friend who seems to have been successful in his mission to convert using the Clinton Method after 3 weeks (not much time yet to tell, but he does seem very interested in women)

Yah well it seems you are not allowed to suggest ppl can succeed at this - it makes you a real hate monger, ya know?

That was my point of contention in one thread [more recently] which was a study done by a known atheist... and i still got slammed.
Which is where some keep harping against this happening as tho they dont like the idea God can work to help some.

I honestly dont know what the beef is - but it gets tiring.

But you can PM anytime with progress reports. I am very interested... it shows nothing of this problem is an absolute and progress is possible.
Firm believer in mind over matter.

 

[WarriorAngel]

All I have to say is God bless that teenager in the linked article. I have a friend that's catholic and struggles with ssa and he is like a brother to me.
This teenager in the article trusts God over his own instincts .
He is what I call a true Catholic role model
Im putting him on my prayer lost

Thats what i would like to emphasize in this world. Not letting this define who we are when we are truly and first and foremost God's children.
As such - i would hope the 'titles' given to ppl disappear and we go back to ppl wanting sainthood and living by virtues and not the world's definition of acceptable practices.

 

[Amrak]

I don't know if I'm allowed to post the web page which explains the reasons why it works, but something to do with "the brain is flexible" anyway free-self-hypnosis.org/stop-gay.htm
heres a quote:
"[SIZE=+2][SIZE=+1]Cab drivers' grey matter enlarges and adapts to help them store a mental map of the city.Taxi drivers given brain scans by scientists at University College London had a larger hippocampus compared with other people. This is a part of the brain associated with navigation in birds and animals. The scientists and Dr Eleanor Maguire also found part of the hippocampus grew larger as the taxi drivers spent more time in the job."

I think if it can work for my friend it could help many more[/SIZE][/SIZE]