Friend might be turning atheist?

[looploop]

Hello. My best friend is Catholic and she has been telling me worrying things lately. Non-Christian things, basically. I'm so sorry if this is the wrong forum or place to post this in, but I have been looking for somewhere to post about this and came across this website.

Anywho!

It started off with little things, you know? The first comment I remember was when she said she believes in jinxing. We had been goofing around and saying we always jinxed things...but then I realized she truly believes that if she does something, the world will somehow magically make a jinx. I had so much in my mind, but I didn't say too much about it.

However, a few months later she mentioned that her mother took her to a "special" doctor whom I do not think was Christian, but was spiritual and crazy about telling my friend to take these special "magic" herbs that would heal her. (It sounded like she was a wanna-be witch, and when I expressed that that seems really weird, my friend implied that she believes in it.) This is sort of similar to the jinx thing.

I could ignore these two things - I could even ignore that she thinks walking under ladders will give you bad luck and such. My friend might just be a little superstitious and doesn't understand the contradiction that has with her Catholic faith.

Unfortunately, she is taking a philosophy class this semester in college and...she's changed...
Obviously, philosophy in itself is not bad or unChristian. However, she is creeping me out. She showed me a video about how small we all are in this big universe - which I knew of already and is not concerning in of itself - but then made a comment about how none of us actually matter. As a Christian, is it not God's word that every single person is important?
It might seem superficial, but it's the way she said it. As if she was fascinated and totally believed in it - like we're nothing.

She hangs onto every word she learns from the philosophers she is studying. She is particularly into existentialism...A little too into it? Saying that we're all here for no reason and there's no point in actually living. She loves it. It's like her obsession.

The things that made me shocked today was when she said she believes full-heartedly in the Big Bang - without question.

I'm sure I'm worrying a little too much, and by my examples, it doesn't seem like a big deal. But I wish I could have accurately quoted her word-by-word from my memory alone...I probably sound a little too obsessed lol...It's just so scary how into existentialism she is, and the healing "powers" and the superstitions, and the fact that she didn't use to be into all of this philosophy stuff. I'm just worried...She doesn't really talk about God anymore and I don't have the guts to ask her if she's still Catholic... :/

I hope some people can help me, even if it's just to let me know I'm worrying about nothing!

 

[Tinyarch]

It sounds like she's trying to figure out what purpose she has in this life and is exploring various options. The book of Ecclesiastes expresses a similar attempt at understanding life. You might suggest that you and your friend read it together.

My suggestion to you is to pray for your friend and trust God with your friends life. God is more than capable of walking your friend down this journey. Your task is to love your friend through whatever seemingly bizarre routes she may take and to trust God to bring her safely through. It may be years of loving and trusting, but remember, God is in control of the situation at all times.
Keep the faith.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hello Anywho!

I’m sorry to hear that your friend is drifting away from the Christian faith. I know that’s a difficult process to go through; one sometimes doesn't know how and what to feel about it.

It started off with little things, you know? The first comment I remember was when she said she believes in jinxing. We had been goofing around and saying we always jinxed things...but then I realized she truly believes that if she does something, the world will somehow magically make a jinx. I had so much in my mind, but I didn't say too much about it.

However, a few months later she mentioned that her mother took her to a "special" doctor whom I do not think was Christian, but was spiritual and crazy about telling my friend to take these special "magic" herbs that would heal her. (It sounded like she was a wanna-be witch, and when I expressed that that seems really weird, my friend implied that she believes in it.) This is sort of similar to the jinx thing.

From all of what you say here in the first two paragraphs, it sounds like she has been experiencing a need for empowerment and is looking for answers that address her emotional disappointments and discomforts she feels she is having in life, discomforts she has even though she has you as a friend.

I could ignore these two things - I could even ignore that she thinks walking under ladders will give you bad luck and such. My friend might just be a little superstitious and doesn't understand the contradiction that has with her Catholic faith.

Sure, she might not understand…

Unfortunately, she is taking a philosophy class this semester in college and...she's changed...

Philosophy always has the potential to turn people’s thinking; it’s especially effective on those who haven’t been anchored in the deeper truths of the faith.

Obviously, philosophy in itself is not bad or unChristian. However, she is creeping me out. She showed me a video about how small we all are in this big universe - which I knew of already and is not concerning in of itself - but then made a comment about how none of us actually matter. As a Christian, is it not God's word that every single person is important?

Paul the Apostle does warn us in the letter to the Colossians to be careful of philosophy because some of its principles can undermine our faith in Christ. As far as the universe is concerned, sure, it’s big, but the relative size of something has little or nothing to do with whether or not we are important to God. Again, your friend’s thinking on the issue of ‘tininess’ isn’t so much a conclusion drawn from logic as it is a conclusion emerging from her disappointments with people, and probably with God.

It might seem superficial, but it's the way she said it. As if she was fascinated and totally believed in it - like we're nothing.

Unfortunately, that is the usual progression of these situations. I’ve seen dozens upon dozens of these situations, and it’s becoming more common.

She hangs onto every word she learns from the philosophers she is studying. She is particularly into existentialism...A little too into it? Saying that we're all here for no reason and there's no point in actually living. She loves it. It's like her obsession.

Let me guess. She’s probably either reading Sartre or Nietzsche, isn’t she? Although, she probably doesn’t know that the philosophical trend in existentialism actually began with a Danish philosopher by the name of Soren Kierkegaard, who was in fact a Christian. But, even if she were to read him, I don’t think it would affect her much for the good.

The things that made me shocked today was when she said she believes full-heartedly in the Big Bang - without question.

I believe in the Big Bang, too. But, you might want to have your friend contend with the fact that the theory of the Big Bang was initiated by a Catholic priest by the name of Georges Lamaitre. She might want to realize that before getting too carried along with agnostic and atheistic predilections about what the Big Bang "might mean," or not mean.

I'm sure I'm worrying a little too much, and by my examples, it doesn't seem like a big deal. But I wish I could have accurately quoted her word-by-word from my memory alone...I probably sound a little too obsessed lol...It's just so scary how into existentialism she is, and the healing "powers" and the superstitions, and the fact that she didn't use to be into all of this philosophy stuff. I'm just worried...She doesn't really talk about God anymore and I don't have the guts to ask her if she's still Catholic... :/

Actually, as one who has a B.A. in Philosophy from an accredited university, I can tell you that if she is “getting into” philosophy, you have a right to be concerned.

I hope some people can help me, even if it's just to let me know I'm worrying about nothing!

Being that I don’t know your friend, I can’t measure her level of disbelief or doubt, but if you have questions with which I might be able to help you understand better what she is contending with, I'll try to answer them and then maybe you can at some point help her too.

Peace,

2PhiloVoid

 

[John Hyperspace]

Saying that we're all here for no reason and there's no point in actually living.

Advice I'd offer here is this: ask her if she experiences change during the course of her life. When she says, yes, advise her that she understands that life is then a process. After she nods her head, ask her if every single observable process around her has a purpose. Ask "Does the process of photosynthesis have a purpose?" then "Does the process of digestion have a purpose?" "Does the process of doing laundry have a purpose?" "Does the process of webspinning have a purpose?" and then "Does the process of defication have a purpose?" After she says "Yes" to all of these, then ask "And so, since everything you can discern, even pooping, has a purpose; you believe that the process of your life has no purpose?" If she says "I believe it has no purpose" then just nod and reply "Maybe you should try reading some philosophy on basic reasoning?"

 

[John Hyperspace]

Also, apologies for the crudity that may be involved in the above questions; but, sometimes you have to get down in the dirt to help people to begin to comprehend basic reasoning.

 

[looploop]

You have all given me such wonderful replies. I will definitely use your suggestions. It has also helped me calm down a bit, especially when with the mentioning that everyone strays a little bit but you can always get back on the right road.

Let me guess. She’s probably either reading Sartre or Nietzsche, isn’t she? Although, she probably doesn’t know that the philosophical trend in existentialism actually began with a Danish philosopher by the name of Soren Kierkegaard, who was in fact a Christian. But, even if she were to read him, I don’t think it would affect her much for the good.

In fact, she's talked about both Sartre and Neitzche! I'm certainly impressed that you knew that. However, it's quite worrying that you have confirmed I should be concerned. I am grateful for your reply. I hope I am able to successfully offer her reinsurance in God and that life is indeed meaningful. I'm not very good at confrontation and have never been a good advice giver, but with everyone's help, I have grown a little more confident.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You have all given me such wonderful replies. I will definitely use your suggestions. It has also helped me calm down a bit, especially when with the mentioning that everyone strays a little bit but you can always get back on the right road.


In fact, she's talked about both Sartre and Neitzche! I'm certainly impressed that you knew that. However, it's quite worrying that you have confirmed I should be concerned. I am grateful for your reply. I hope I am able to successfully offer her reinsurance in God and that life is indeed meaningful. I'm not very good at confrontation and have never been a good advice giver, but with everyone's help, I have grown a little more confident.

Well, pray for her, as I'm sure you will. Also, be patient with her and don't think of your next step as a confrontation but rather as an opportunity to lend her a helping hand ...

Blessings,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Emmy]

Dear looploop. You had some good answers, and I can only agree: Pray for your friend and thank God for loving us.
In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: Ask and receive. We ask God for Love and Joy, then we thank God and start loving and caring, be kind and always friendly. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: "Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." Verse 40 tells us: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God is Love and God wants loving sons and daughters. We keep asking and thanking God, then share all love and joy with our neighbour.
( neighbour is all we know and we met, friends and no friends) We have to give up be selfish and unloving, and start loving and caring, be kind and always friendly.
The Bible tells us: Change into the men and women which God wants us to be. We might stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us and carry on loving and caring. Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY. I say this with love, looploop. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Uber Genius]

You will have to accept that she is reshaping her worldview.

This often happens when we gain new information (data) or explanations (inferences) of those data, such as our place in the universe, cosmology, the existence of objective moral values and duties.

Because she had never been taught how to think deeply, she is in trouble.

Besides praying, you can start to train yourself how to think deeply about these issues. It is hard work but rewarding work.

Www.Reasonablefaith.org has number of videos that will help.

Don't be afraid of the Big Bang. Despite its demonization by fundamentalists, it is extremely helpful to the Christian worldview. If you watch the cosmological (Kalam) video you will intuit why atheists hate the Big Bang and have for over 70 years.

Similarly the argument from the fine-tuning of he universe for life is a powerful one that destroys your friends notion of "being small and inconsequential" and turns that concept on it's head.

The moral argument takes her existential musing and paints the logical consequences in brilliant colors. Namely, on existentialism, there is nothing wrong with Hitler's death camps! Why your friend may be quick to give up her belief in God, she will find it hard to look at Auschwitz and say well that may be offensive to me but who am I to impose my views....

Morals are imbedded deeper that our undeveloped beliefs in God.

Don't expect much. Be patient. I had a friend go through this 35 years ago and they still haven't returned, but they keep calling me and once every couple years they ask about God.

 

[JCFantasy23]

It doesn't sound like she's turning atheist but that she's open-minded and maybe a little new age. The herbal healing - that could mean anything from a naturopath or herbalist or nutritionist (nothing wrong with any of those and it shouldn't be against the Christian religion to use herbs and spices if they help healing...)

Some Christians believe God formed the world with the Big Bang in His way. Philosophy can sometimes give people odd ideas that aren't Christian.

I think it sounds like she needs to be careful, but not that she's losing her faith altogether necessarily.

 

[Purple Haze]

Your friend is evidence against her own philosophy. If there is no point to anything, why is she going to philosophy class? Philosophy glorifies questioning everything rather than actually answering anything. If she tells you theres no point to anything ask her whats her point? If she tells you nothing has a purpose ask her what her purpose is for telling you that. If she tells you that nothing in the universe has value you should tell her then to stop taking these lame philosophy classes. If to your friend nothing matters, then neither should her thoughts. She should stop thinking altogether. She is instead deifying her own thoughts, putting them on a higher pedestal than all the matter in the universe- the biggest common mistake of all philosophers and atheists is that when God is removed from existence, they by default, take his place. Having faith in oneself rather than any god is not atheism, its just switching gods.

I highly recommend introducing her to the works of GK Chesterton- something you might enjoy as well. He rips these philosophies to shreds in a friendly loveable way. Heretics, Orthodoxy, and Everlasting Man are some of his best.