Freedom of Religion Is More Than Freedom of Worship

VanillaSunflowers

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A long post but I was inspired. :angel::amen:

So I have to go on the road this evening well after 10 p.m. And I turn on a Christian radio station and that's when I heard the woman I posted the link to speaking about this election.

TCO 10/15/16: Freedom of Religion Is More Than Freedom of Worship
Posted by: Christian Outlook in Blog, Listen Lilve, Radio Show October 13, 2016

The Christian Outlook
By Don Kroah

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TCO 10/15/16: Freedom of Religion Is More Than Freedom of Worship Dr. Alveda King, niece of Dr. Martin Luther King,… 10/13/2016 Free View in iTunes

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Dr. Alveda King, niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., joined the Don Kroah Show to discuss Hillary Clinton’s immoral record on the sanctity of life. John Stonestreet, president of the Colson Center for Christian Worldview, talked with Mark Elfstrand about why Christians need to show up and vote on Election Day. Richard Pollock of the Daily Caller has dug up the dirty deeds of the Clinton Foundation and he shares his findings with Kroah. Jake Mulder, author of “Growing Young: Six Essential Strategies to Help Young People Discover and Love Your Church, shares thoughts from his book with Craig Roberts. Phil Robertson, the patriarch of Duck Dynasty, joined the Eric Metaxas Show to talk about the presidential race and a new movie he worked on. When so much in the world seems to be going wrong, Bob Burney shares a story where something actually went right!




God is always on time. He may not "come when called", as we pray for immediate relief for any given situation we find ourselves in. But being he's eternally present and aware of our place in this life, he's always able to send the right messenger at the right time.

Of late I've allowed myself to get caught up in the worldly forums politics as relate to this election.
I repent of my attitude in getting led to respond in kind to some of the remarks there. Sadly, remarks from Christians.

What I enjoyed the most about this radio broadcast was that Dr.King said this election she's voting for life. Not personalities. And being we're Christians and the candidate that is most under fire is Donald Trump, who's repented and apologized for his actions , we're to recall the scriptures and Peter who asked our Lord in Matthew 18, how many times should he forgive that brother or sister that sins against him?

21.Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?” 22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.


Dr.King is voting for life. Hillary is pro-abortion. And if she attains the highest office in seating the 9th chair on the Supreme Court, she'll move to put someone in who is pro-choice.
And that person will likely sit for 30 or more years. And in the four years of a presidency Hillary would be able to seat more justices being the age of the oldest ones now. And she would seat them as pro-choice justices too.

This isn't a personality contest. Of all the sins we're reading about either candidate, and in Hillary's case her husband who was once our President, what are we saying as people of Christ?

We're casting stones, joining in the smear campaigns, promoting the rumor mongering.

Is that what our Lord would do? We're to forgive that brother and sister that sins against us 77 times. Or seventy times seven.
What we're not to do is join those who are the walking dead in their sins and contribute to the stoning of that brother and sister with our words.


So I ask forgiveness for any offenses in that line that I am guilty of. And I vow not to participate further.

This election is about life and righteousness. Hillary is pro-abortion. Donald Trump is not.

They're both professing faithful in Christ and only God knows their heart. If we throw stones even at that, God knows our heart too.

This election, vote your conscience. And if you can't see yourself doing that and for a pro-life candidate, then abstain and don't vote because of conscience. But whatever we do, we as representatives of the Living Christ should never ever join with the agents of the world and smear fellow Saints of Christ.

If we didn't need to be forgiven our own trespasses and sins and past history that we all each and everyone know personally to ourselves, we would not have need of our Savior. But we do. And we did. And that's why we laid every dark thing we've ever done at the foot of the cross.

How can we now throw the sins of Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton up and cast stones at those, when Donald and Hillary are members of the spiritual body of Christ just as we are?

If we do anything, let us consider praying for Donald and Hillary. Regardless of party affiliation. Because save for the grace of God there go I. And you.
Our sins weren't put on display in public and through the media in print or broadcast form.
The world isn't aware of our face and our sins and our name and our family.

They are of Donald's and Hillary's.

If Jesus Christ can die for them, how can we throw the sins his blood washes clean into the ring and then cast aspersions upon them?


What would Jesus do?

Praise God, he already did it.

What are we doing to prove we appreciate that?

God be with Hillary R. Clinton and Donald Trump. And their families. God protect them, and grant them peace. God forgive them their trespasses and let us show mercy when they repent, apologize, to us even when we're not the aggrieved. And even when they don't. Because their sins are between them and God. And those whom they've personally sinned against.

Let us show mercy as we were shown mercy. And let us never forget when we're ready to jump on a story about someone's failings, that we too are able to fail and fall. And we too are known heart and soul to the one Creator that knows all about us. And sent his grace and died for us anyway.

As we were shown mercy let us show mercy. And pray for those who cast stones toward the candidates as we once did.

Imagine if our sins were public fodder. How would we feel to happen on a website that was talking about us?

God be with his people and the United States of America. Amen.
 
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Uber Genius

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This election is about life and righteousness. Hillary is pro-abortion. Donald Trump is not.

I agree with your assessment about the abortion evil but not Trumps stand on that issue.

During this election Trump continues to flip-flop around this important issue.

Here is a link that reports both current and past pro-abortion activities and public support.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-trumps-ever-shifting-positions-on-abortion/

April 1989
Trump co-sponsored a dinner at the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan (which he then owned) honoring Robin Chandler Duke, a former president of NARAL. He chose not to attend, the New York Times reported, after his family was threatened by anti-abortion activists.

Oct. 24, 1999
Ten years later, Trump appeared on NBC in an interview with Tim Russert. In a clip that has received newfound life during this election cycle, Trump defends his broadly liberal positions by explaining that he grew up in Manhattan, not Iowa.

Asked about abortion, he’s clear.

“I’m very pro-choice,” Trump says. “I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still — I just believe in choice.”

Russert clarifies his original point: Would you ban partial-birth abortion? “No,” Trump replies.

We have no non-abortion candidates at the top of the ticket. trumps VP is consistently pro-life. That is it. Across all candidates.

No way I just let someone who have been a high fundraiser for NARAL and Planned Parenthood get my vote because he "claims," he is pro-life and always has been. That's a lie and we already have enough liars in Washington.
 
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Emmy

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Dear Vanilla Sunflower. Why those deep questions? Jesus gave us only two.The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." God is Love and God wants loving sons and daughters. That is easy and straightforward.
The Bible tells us to Repent and be Born Again, we give up all our selfish wishes and wants, then ask Jesus into our life and follow Jesus. Jesus died that we might live, we ask God for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all love and joy with our brothers and sisters. (Matthew 7: 7-10) God will see and approve, and God will guide and help us. We keep asking and thanking God, and God will keep Blessing us. Jesus our Saviour will help and guide us: JESUS IS THE WAY. We might stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us and carry on loving and caring, be kind and always friendly.
God will guide us all the way, and Jesus is the way, we have all the freedom we need to love and forgive and be God`s loving sons and daughters. Keep asking and receiving then thank God and follow Jesus our Saviour. We will find that God`s Love and Joy will lead us, and help us to be the men and women which God wants us to be. I say this with love, Vanilla Sunflower.
Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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I agree with your assessment about the abortion evil but not Trumps stand on that issue.

During this election Trump continues to flip-flop around this important issue.

Here is a link that reports both current and past pro-abortion activities and public support.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...d-trumps-ever-shifting-positions-on-abortion/

April 1989
Trump co-sponsored a dinner at the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan (which he then owned) honoring Robin Chandler Duke, a former president of NARAL. He chose not to attend, the New York Times reported, after his family was threatened by anti-abortion activists.

Oct. 24, 1999
Ten years later, Trump appeared on NBC in an interview with Tim Russert. In a clip that has received newfound life during this election cycle, Trump defends his broadly liberal positions by explaining that he grew up in Manhattan, not Iowa.

Asked about abortion, he’s clear.

“I’m very pro-choice,” Trump says. “I hate the concept of abortion. I hate it. I hate everything it stands for. I cringe when I listen to people debating the subject. But you still — I just believe in choice.”

Russert clarifies his original point: Would you ban partial-birth abortion? “No,” Trump replies.

We have no non-abortion candidates at the top of the ticket. trumps VP is consistently pro-life. That is it. Across all candidates.

No way I just let someone who have been a high fundraiser for NARAL and Planned Parenthood get my vote because he "claims," he is pro-life and always has been. That's a lie and we already have enough liars in Washington.
Yes, Trump was a supporter of Senator Hillary Clinton at one time. In the early part of his campaign he stated he'd given her money, presumably to the Clinton's foundation, and in return she came to his wedding. Pay for play yet again. And with pictures!Lots and lots of pictures in fact. :)

Trump at that time of his paying Hillary and other politicians, as he said, was a Democrat. He's crossed the aisle for this run. Is he sincere? Well, if he's not and he happens to win, and I'm no Trumpeter, he'll have to keep up appearances for four years. Because while he may appear as a narcissist, he will not be a dictator in office. I hope he knows this. That's what the Legislative body stands against;dictatorship.

And the SCOTUS, (Supreme Court of The United States) in effect tells Presidents what they can do legally.Therefore, if Trump is under the impression he can rule as some sort of sovereign he's mistaken. But as of this campaign moment, he's pro-life Republican.

Hillary is not. Hillary in fact supports abortion to the third trimester. Late term abortion, as it is called.
 
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Uber Genius

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he'll have to keep up appearances for four years.

Narcissism is different than your run-of-the-mill lying politicians.

It is picturing a world where you actually believe the things you are saying are true.

When Bill or Hillary open their mouths they actually know they are lying. Which makes them corrupt politicians, think Putin! But Trump is actually delusional!

He thinks his lies are true in the actual world.

That is not better than a corrupt liar. The nuclear football is solely in the power of he POTUS.

Saber-rattling by Iran or North Korea could provoke a Narcissist to wrath. I, for ones don't want to see WW3 in the next 4 years.

I wrote in Rick Santorum. He will not be elected but I will not have my signature behind the election of either of these despots.
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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Narcissism is different than your run-of-the-mill lying politicians.

It is picturing a world where you actually believe the things you are saying are true.

When Bill or Hillary open their mouths they actually know they are lying. Which makes them corrupt politicians, think Putin! But Trump is actually delusional!

He thinks his lies are true in the actual world.

That is not better than a corrupt liar. The nuclear football is solely in the power of he POTUS.

Saber-rattling by Iran or North Korea could provoke a Narcissist to wrath. I, for ones don't want to see WW3 in the next 4 years.

I wrote in Rick Santorum. He will not be elected but I will not have my signature behind the election of either of these despots.
a wasted vote but your values are commendable.
 
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Uber Genius

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a wasted vote but your values are commendable.
Yes that is the propaganda, anyways.

But if God holds us responsible for every act (not as a condition for salvation but for the beama seat judgement (1Cor 3:12ff) then how would you answer God?

"I didn't want to waste my vote, so I voted for the lying liberal abortionist who was deluded into thinking he was a truthful conservative pro-lifer."

And further, to be practical, given Trump's unpredictability and even he admits to that, why think that he would steer our country in a better direction. If he is unwilling to prepare for debates, as his staff claims, or sit for interviews with biographers (He is paying to write a book about himself), why think he is going to do any preparation at governing?

Sure Hillary's plan is horrible. But Trump may be worse. He may make fools out of the US, destroy peace processes in the works for decades, start WW3. He will insult every head of state, and potentially be a shill for someone like Putin, who would play Trump like a cat-toy. Here Hillary will continue to take payoffs from countries like Russia, Pakistan, and Libya (so Trump and Clinton are both horrible from a foreign policy standpoint).

Now if Pence came to office that would change things but I don't want to pray for the series of events that would be required in order to get Pence as President.

I hope I'm wrong and your intuitions are right.
 
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Inkfingers

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"I didn't want to waste my vote, so I voted for the lying liberal abortionist who was deluded into thinking he was a truthful conservative pro-lifer."

:sigh:

Indeed.

Why do people keep repeating this? There is nothing conservative about Donald Trump, and I doubt there is anything pro-life about him either. He's a vain, bloated, adulterous, abusive, foul-mouthed, mamon-serving, lover of self.

Republicans have been caught in a trap. They are so desperate for Hillary not to win that they will blinker themselves into thinking this election is about abortion (ignoring the depravity and egotism of Trump because they know that if they look wider than abortion they may realise Trump is not remotely edifying as a candidate either).

Now if Pence came to office that would change things but I don't want to pray for the series of events that would be required in order to get Pence as President.

Indeed.

And anyone who thinks Pence will have any say in policy should those events not come to pass is simply ignoring the crushing egotism that Trump displays in all other matters.

This election is a superb example of how Christians in the end times will fall into apostasy for love of a vile leader they close their eyes to the faults of. :(
 
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ken777

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This election is a superb example of how Christians in the end times will fall into apostasy for love of a vile leader they close their eyes to the faults of. :(

I'm not sure how personal faults prevent a person being an effective president. As someone said, you're not voting for a Sunday school teacher, you're voting for a president. It is about which policies you prefer, not an individual's personal morality. The personal morality of a string of past presidents would not stand up to close scrutiny.
 
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Inkfingers

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I'm not sure how personal faults prevent a person being an effective president. As someone said, you're not voting for a Sunday school teacher, you're voting for a president. It is about which policies you prefer, not an individual's personal morality. The personal morality of a string of past presidents would not stand up to close scrutiny.

You are voting for the one who will lead, set the tone for, and rule over, your nation, and also represent your nation to others.

You should approach this seeking the same values you would seek in a husband and pastor.
 
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ken777

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You are voting for the one who will lead, represent to others, set the tone, and rule, over your nation.
You should approach this seeking the same values you would seek in a husband and pastor.
I doubt many voters would want either HC or DT as a husband/wife or pastor, but one of them will be the president. So we need to consider realistically what is on offer and make a choice based on policies not personal morality.
 
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Inkfingers

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I doubt many voters would want either HC or DT as a husband/wife or pastor, but one of them will be the president. So we need to consider realistically what is on offer and make a choice based on policies not personal morality.

How they act as president will be as an expression of their personal morality.

In seeing Christians vote for Trump we are seeing how apostasy happens and a charismatic but vile leader will be followed...
 
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ken777

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How they act as president will be as an expression of their personal morality.
Did FDR's or JFK's or WJC's sexual morality have any bearing on their performance as a competent president?

In seeing Christians vote for Trump we are seeing how apostasy happens and a charismatic but vile leader will be followed...
It depends on what you consider more vile - Hillary's impact on the country or Trump's.
 
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Inkfingers

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Did FDR's or JFK's or WJC's sexual morality have any bearing on their performance as a competent president?

Would their personal morality have any bearing?

Yes.

Would Hillary's? Do you really believe that Hillary's personal morality would not have any bearing on how good a president she would be?

It depends on what you consider more vile - Hillary's impact on the country or Trump's.

No, it means not to grant either vle candidate even a smidge of legitimacy. Goid doesn't call on us to do the 'slightly less vile'.

To treat Trump as the saviour of conservative America is to suffer utter delusion.
 
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ken777

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Would their personal morality have any bearing?

Yes.

Would Hillary's? Do you really believe that Hillary's personal morality would not have any bearing on how good a president she would be?

No, it means not to grant either vle candidate even a smidge of legitimacy. Goid doesn't call on us to do the 'slightly less vile'.

To treat Trump as the saviour of conservative America is to suffer utter delusion.
So you would only vote for a perfect candidate?
 
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Inkfingers

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So you would only vote for a perfect candidate?

I would only vote for a repentant and godly candidate displaying the fruits of the holy spirit - as such are who you need to be a leader.

I would not vote for an unrepentant sinner who openly loves and serves mammon and who is amongst those who are "lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power" (2 Timothy 3:2-5)
 
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ken777

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I would only vote for a repentant and godly candidate displaying the fruits of the holy spirit - as such are who you need to be a leader.

I would not vote for an unrepentant sinner who openly loves and serves mammon and who is amongst those who are "lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power" (2 Timothy 3:2-5)
I guess it depends on what you think the job description is. As an employer I choose an applicant based on the person's qualifications & experience, not their morality. If you think that their foremost task is being a role model, then I can understand your reluctance to vote at all.
 
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But if God holds us responsible for every act (not as a condition for salvation but for the beama seat judgement (1Cor 3:12ff) then how would you answer God?

"I didn't want to waste my vote, so I voted for the lying liberal abortionist who was deluded into thinking he was a truthful conservative pro-lifer."

OR

"Knowing that only two had a chance of becoming President,
I wasted my vote instead of trying to elect the lesser of two
evils, if not the better of the two."
 
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