Fr. Patrick Henry Reardon no longer will sign civil marriage licenses

[E.C.]

One of the gals - the non religious one - lives with four people. Her roommate is married, and her husband has a girlfriend. She called it palimony I think. This kind of shocked me, but then I wondered how common this really is, and how much will it spread?

You would be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't ) on how many military couples, especially Navy couples, practice it. They may not have a name for it or acknowledge it, but many just agree that, "whatever happens on deployment, stays on deployment" or just say, "do what you want when you're away, but don't bring it home".
I would hope we all know that this is horribly horribly false. The main reason why many outside of the military may not know is because we try to keep our skeletons in our own closet.

 

[gzt]

You would be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't ) on how many military couples, especially Navy couples, practice it. They may not have a name for it or acknowledge it, but many just agree that, "whatever happens on deployment, stays on deployment" or just say, "do what you want when you're away, but don't bring it home".
I would hope we all know that this is horribly horribly false. The main reason why many outside of the military may not know is because we try to keep our skeletons in our own closet.

I believe that's called more of an "open relationship".

"Polygamy" would be more honorable than teh "polyamory" displayed above because at least then they're "marrying" their additional partners. And then there is at least some tolerance in the Bible for the practice. Yes, I do realize it's a new term.

 

[jckstraw72]

abortion kills the body, homosexuality kills the soul

 

[Isaac32]

abortion kills the body, homosexuality kills the soul

In the case of abortion, for the culprit, isn't electing to have an abortion also soul-destroying?

 

[jckstraw72]

In the case of abortion, for the culprit, isn't electing to have an abortion also soul-destroying?

true, true. i read this in a Father - i forget who exactly. for some reason i'm thinking it's either St. John Chrysostom or St. Nikodemos the Hagiorite.

o we could say abortion kills one body and one soul and homosexuality kills every soul involved.

 

[buzuxi02]

I work with many central americans, and polygamy is rampant in the rural areas of their countries. Which is why I dont think it will ever be accepted here. They have so many out of wedlock kids that its frightening (polygamy in those parts usually mean having side girlfriends rather than legal wives under one roof). I think its one of those dirty little secrets most people are unaware is rampant right here in the western hemisphere.

It would increase poverty and man would degenerate into worse than rabbits. I could tell you horror stories including one guy who was having sexual relations with his biological sister because they didnt know they were related! Basically all his dad's other kids would congregate at his house and he never bothered to find out who all the random young people were that hung out at his house. (thats the level of horror stories im talking about)

SSM simply makes no sense. There is no economic or moral benefit to it. We know why society would need to keep tabs on heterosexual couples. Just look at the single mom who cant even get the guy who made her pregnant take a paternity test to pay child support. Just the impact on school districts would be reason for government marriages, but gay marriages????

 

[E.C.]

I believe that's called more of an "open relationship".

"Polygamy" would be more honorable than teh "polyamory" displayed above because at least then they're "marrying" their additional partners. And then there is at least some tolerance in the Bible for the practice. Yes, I do realize it's a new term.

Fair enough

I remember reading, probably from BBC, that some countries in eastern and southern Africa legally recognized polygamy and found that in some respects it was actually a good thing. If I remember correctly according the article the extra wives finally had legal rights to things like child custody and other legal benefits.

 

[GregConstantine]

"mean having side girlfriends rather than legal wives under one roof"

This is common with Latin/Mediterranean cultures. My mom's side of the family is mostly Italian, and her uncles were married but had affairs, no one batted an eye. Sure the RC Church would preach its wrong, but it was expected of you if you were a man, that you would "sow your oats" so to speak. If you didn't, you were not considered a real man.

The women just quietly accepted it.

 

[Dorothea]

You would be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't ) on how many military couples, especially Navy couples, practice it. They may not have a name for it or acknowledge it, but many just agree that, "whatever happens on deployment, stays on deployment" or just say, "do what you want when you're away, but don't bring it home".
I would hope we all know that this is horribly horribly false. The main reason why many outside of the military may not know is because we try to keep our skeletons in our own closet.

Actually, I didn't know that. It's quite depressing to know this is more common than I thought, but then again, I've been pretty sheltered when growing up and apparently just didn't come into contact with this situation throughout my twenties and thirties up to now. I think it's very damaging to the souls of all involved. I'm sure you and others agree here. We understand what God revealed to us as the only and appropriate sexual relationship between a man and woman in marriage.

 

[Dorothea]

true, true. i read this in a Father - i forget who exactly. for some reason i'm thinking it's either St. John Chrysostom or St. Nikodemos the Hagiorite.

o we could say abortion kills one body and one soul and homosexuality kills every soul involved.

Yes, this was, I think, what Fr. Patrick was saying with regards to why homosexuality and "gay marriage" was so much more damaging and dangerous. Abortion is going against one of God's Commandments, he said, but the other destroys more people, and he said, the whole gay marriage deal coming to pass as a whole destroys a whole society/culture. And when he explained it, it really made sense and woke me up to the true ramifications of this whole issue.

 

[Dorothea]

I work with many central americans, and polygamy is rampant in the rural areas of their countries. Which is why I dont think it will ever be accepted here. They have so many out of wedlock kids that its frightening (polygamy in those parts usually mean having side girlfriends rather than legal wives under one roof). I think its one of those dirty little secrets most people are unaware is rampant right here in the western hemisphere.

It would increase poverty and man would degenerate into worse than rabbits. I could tell you horror stories including one guy who was having sexual relations with his biological sister because they didnt know they were related! Basically all his dad's other kids would congregate at his house and he never bothered to find out who all the random young people were that hung out at his house. (thats the level of horror stories im talking about)

SSM simply makes no sense. There is no economic or moral benefit to it. We know why society would need to keep tabs on heterosexual couples. Just look at the single mom who cant even get the guy who made her pregnant take a paternity test to pay child support. Just the impact on school districts would be reason for government marriages, but gay marriages????

That terribly sad.

 

[Albion]

I'm listening to an AFR podcast on this issue. Here's what Fr. Patrick wrote to his congregation about not signing the marriage license:


"Because the State of Illinois, through its legislature and governor's office, has now re-defined marriage, marriage licenses issued by agencies of the State of Illinois will no longer be required (or signed) for weddings here at All Saints in Chicago."

Fr. Patrick's decision is one that a number of other clergy, from many different denominations, have already adopted, and bishops and whole churches have begun discussing the issue. It's not just that the state has destroyed the meaning of marriage, but in so doing it has also opened the door to lawsuits brought against churches and pastors if they refuse to marry individuals who come to them but do not meet the religious standards of that church for marriage. In the future, we will probably see couples having two marriage ceremonies--a perfunctory one in front of a magistrate for purposes of Social Security, inheritance, insurance, etc. and another one, the main one, in their own church.

 

[Dorothea]

The mindset since the beginning of man since the Fall has been men can have all the wives and concubines (girlfriends) as they want, and the women just accepted it as the men needed to have that for their sexual needs to be satisfied, or something along those lines. It's been rooted in our cultures and societies for thousands of years, and it's obviously part of our brokenness since the Fall. God never intended man to have more than one wife, and what bothers me is nobody expects better of men. In our culture alone, it was always women who were stigmatized for sleeping around, but men were always given a free pass. Also, when I was reading about some feminists in the early 20th century, one of them, who I can't remember the name, thought to be equal meant to act as boarish as men were in the sex life realm. They didn't consider that the men should do the same as what the women were asked to do, and no men ever promoted it that I know of (and when societies are ruled by men, who is going to take the initiative to change this?).

Anyway, this has always bothered me. Even before I started attending church in my early to mid 20s and became a practicing Orthodox Christian, I remember guys who bragged about their sexual exploits during my teen years and telling them they were tramps just as much as women, and they laughed it off and thought I was stupid and being silly.

 

[Dorothea]

Fr. Patrick's decision is one that a number of other clergy, from many different denominations, have already adopted, and bishops and whole churches have begun discussing the issue. It's not just that the state has destroyed the meaning of marriage, but in so doing it has also opened the door to lawsuits brought against churches and pastors if they refuse to marry individuals who come to them but do not meet the religious standards of that church for marriage. In the future, we will probably see couples having two marriage ceremonies--a perfunctory one in front of a magistrate for purposes of Social Security, inheritance, insurance, etc. and another one, the main one, in their own church.

Right. Thanks for adding this to the convo, Albion.

 

[GregConstantine]

Remember though Dorothea, more than half of the stories that guys tell are not true. Don't know if that make it better, but don't belive most of the stories guys tell, especially the ones they tell each other.

 

[Dorothea]

Remember though Dorothea, more than half of the stories that guys tell are not true. Don't know if that make it better, but don't belive most of the stories guys tell, especially the ones they tell each other.

That's a good point, Greg. But there is still that mindset in the society that boys have that free pass to destroy themselves. Of course, nowadays, it's every man or woman for themselves. And I think it goes back to women wanting to do what men do - this "free sex" crud, and so now, it's just chaos generally speaking.

 

[GregConstantine]

Oh yeah, I totally agree and see that double standard. Its a source of material for commedians.

It is a problem for guys too. We feel a lot of pressure to have sex, our masculinity and orientation is "questioned" if we don't have many sexual exploits by the time we are 18, God forbid if you are a guy in his twenties who is still a virgin! It's also a problem when guys are truly in an abusive relationship, when the woman is the abusive one. Then we are told that we are weak, and are letting the woman control us, and we just need to "man" up and show her who's the boss.

It's terrible.

 

[dzheremi]

I remember when I was in high school there was a young man who I had grown up with who always balked at having those kinds of conversations. His friends would tease him, because he had a girlfriend and so they assumed that the fact that he refused to talk about it must mean that there were problems in their love life that he was embarrassed by. He put an end to their talk one day by admitting that, yes, he and his girlfriend have sex, but he doesn't feel that that's anyone else's business, and the fact that other guys are so eager to talk and brag about it shows that they're clearly not emotionally mature enough to handle having physical relationships, so their lies on this subject are obvious and pathetic to anyone who does have a physical relationship and is mature enough about it to not be a braggart.

I always respected him greatly, and even more so after that. Forget whatever bogus concept of "being a man" that is probably more fed to you by action movies than real life; being a mature adult is more important. I am thankful that I am of an age and in a social circle that does not foster this kind of noxious talk. At a certain point, when you're in your 30s or 40s and married, it's simply not impressive or appropriate to discuss these matters. Keep it between you and your wife, dude. Nobody else cares or wants to hear about it.

 

[GregConstantine]

"Keep it between you and your wife, dude. Nobody else cares or wants to hear about it."

yep! I agree.

 

[Dorothea]

Oh yeah, I totally agree and see that double standard. Its a source of material for commedians.

It is a problem for guys too. We feel a lot of pressure to have sex, our masculinity and orientation is "questioned" if we don't have many sexual exploits by the time we are 18, God forbid if you are a guy in his twenties who is still a virgin! It's also a problem when guys are truly in an abusive relationship, when the woman is the abusive one. Then we are told that we are weak, and are letting the woman control us, and we just need to "man" up and show her who's the boss.

It's terrible.

You have explained a perspective I had not thought of. Maybe because I'm a woman. That is really tough.