Four corners flat earth

[Bluelion]

I am no longer Baptist, so I have to tread lightly. If I infringe on any rules I will gladly leave the discussion. But I cannot in anyway see how not believing all of the Bible is literal or that God dictated the Bible word-for-word equates to not having "trust" in God's word.

https://biologos.org/questions/early-interpretations-of-genesis



https://biologos.org/questions/early-interpretations-of-genesis

Why should I subscribe to a theology of a literal Genesis that some Baptists teach when revered fathers like Augustine apparently didn't?

If I have misread or misinterpreted your post (or broken forum rules) then I unreservedly apologise and hope you'll forgive me.

As far as the rules they state only baptist may debate core beliefs in the baptist section, I personally don't care if you debate because the subject of the bible being with out errors is a core believe in many other sections as well. but just because i do not mind does not mean you won't get in trouble for it.

Now where did I say all the bible was literal, do I believe gen is yes and there is no indication other wise. but my comment was on the bible having errors.

If People say the Bible has errors how can we trust in salvation? All we have is God's word, so if God's word has errors how can a person trust in salvation.

People think by saying you believe Jesus is the son of God you are a christian, but in fact it takes more than that. It takes faith it takes works produced by Faith, don't confuse that with work for salvation its not the same. But Faith produces works. It takes surrendering to God's will. There is more to being a Christian than believing Jesus the son of God.

So how can a person trust what the Bible says about salvation if it has errors?

 

[Bluelion]

This thread is not about the Ten Commandments—it is about the flat earth with four corners that is described in the Bible. Ancient Hebrew cosmology expressly teaches that the earth is flat and covered with a dome, and that teaching is expressly taught in the Bible.

ויעשׂ אלהים את־הרקיע ויבדל בין המים אשׁר מתחת לרקיע ובין המים אשׁר מעל לרקיע ויהי־כן׃ Gen. 1:7

Gen. 1:7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.

The NRSV correctly translates the Hebrew word רָקִיעַ (râqı̂ya&#8219 as “dome.” The evidence for the correctness of this translation is found in the use of this word in ancient Hebrew literature. Based upon this usage, the Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs published by Oxford University gives us the following meaning of it in Gen. 1:7, “the vault of heaven, or ‘firmament,’ regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting ‘waters’ above it.” (p. 956)

According to ancient Hebrew cosmology based upon Genesis, Job, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and other books in the Old Testament, the universe is composed of three parts.

The heavens (Hebrew = שָׁמַיִם [shâmayim]) above,
The earth (Hebrew = אֶרֶץ [eh'-rets]) in the middle
The world of the dead (Hebrew שְׁאוֹל [sheh-ole'] below

For a diagram of this universe, and much more information from Christian scholars, please see here, A COMMON COSMOLOGY OF THE ANCIENT WORLD

The story of the Genesis flood is dependent upon this cosmology:

Gen. 1:6. And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
8. God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
9. And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.
10. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. (NRSV)

Gen. 7:11. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
12. The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights. (NRSV)

Moreover, only a flat earth has four corners:

Isa. 11:12. He will raise a signal for the nations,
and will assemble the outcasts of Israel,
and gather the dispersed of Judah
from the four corners of the earth. (NRSV)

Rev.7:1. After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on earth or sea or against any tree. (NRSV)

The literal four corners of the earth in the Bible gave rise to today’s popular expression.

Furthermore, Jesus was able to see all the kingdoms of the world from “a very high mountain.” This would have been impossible on a spherical earth:

Matt. 4:8. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor; (NRSV)

your translation of the bible is the only one that says dome, KJV NASB NLT NIV do not. I don't think you understand your translation and you need to look at others which convey it better. Your argument is void.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

your translation of the bible is the only one that says dome, KJV NASB NLT NIV do not. I don't think you understand your translation and you need to look at others which convey it better. Your argument is void.

Gen 1:6. And God said: let there be a firmament betwene the waters, and let it make a diuision betwene waters and waters. (Bishop’s Bible, 1568)

Gen 1:6. Againe God saide, Let there be a firmament in the middes of the waters: and let it separate the waters from the waters. (Geneva Bible, 1587)

Gen 1:6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters: and let it diuide the waters from the waters. (KJV, 1611)

Gen 1:6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. (RV, 1881)

Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. (ASV, 1901)

Gen. 1:6 And God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” (RSV, 1952)

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Full Definition of FIRMAMENT

1
: the vault or arch of the sky : heavens
2
obsolete : basis
3
: the field or sphere of an interest or activity <the international fashion firmament>

Origin of FIRMAMENT

Middle English, from Late Latin & Latin; Late Latin firmamentum, from Latin, support, from firmare​

Notice especially definition 1: the vault or arch of the sky

Gen. 1:6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” (NASB, 1977)

Gen. 1:6 And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” (NRSV, 1989)

Gen. 1:6 Then God said, “Let there be an expanse between the waters, separating water from water.” (HCSB, 1999)

Gen. 1:6 And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” (ESV, 2011)

Gen. 1:6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” (NIV, 2011)

The NRSV correctly translates the Hebrew word &#1512;&#1464;&#1511;&#1460;&#1497;&#1506;&#1463; (râq&#305;&#770;ya&#8219 as “dome.” The evidence for the correctness of this translation is found in the use of this word in ancient Hebrew literature. Based upon this usage, the Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs published by Oxford University gives us the following meaning of it in Gen. 1:7, “the vault of heaven, or ‘firmament,’ regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting ‘waters’ above it.” (p. 956)

6-8 Second Work: The Firmament.—The second fiat calls into existence a firmament, whose function is to divide the primeval waters into an upper and lower ocean, leaving a space between as the theater of further creative developments. The “firmament” is the dome of heaven, which to the ancients was no optical illusion, but a material structure, sometimes compared to an “upper chamber” (Ps. 104:12, Am 9:6) supported by “pillars” (Jb 26:11), and resembling in its surface a “molten mirror” (Jb 37:18). Above this are the heavenly waters, from which the rain descends through “windows” or “doors” (Gn 7:11, 8:2, 2 Ki 7:2, 19) opened and shut by God at His pleasure (Ps 78:23).​

John Skinner, Principal and Professor of Old Testament Language and Literature, Westminster College, Cambridge (in his commentary on Genesis, page 21).

 

[now faith]

Otherwise known as atmosphere.

 

[now faith]

double click

 

[now faith]

The dome would be layers of gases.

But I suppose if we try hard enough and never observed the earth via.NASA photos we could call it what we want.

 

[now faith]

The atmosphere of Earth is a layer of gases surrounding the planet Earth that is retained by Earth's gravity. The atmosphere protects life on Earth by absorbing ultraviolet solar radiation, warming the surface through heat retention (greenhouse effect), and reducing temperature extremes between day and night (the diurnal temperature variation).

The common name given to the atmospheric gases used in breathing and photosynthesis is air. By volume, dry air contains 78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen,[1] 0.93% argon, 0.039% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases. Air also contains a variable amount of water vapor, on average around 1% at sea level, and 0.4% over the entire atmosphere. Although air content and atmospheric pressure vary at different layers, air suitable for the survival of terrestrial plants and terrestrial animals currently is only known to be found in Earth's troposphere and artificial atmospheres

Early stage of creation the earth had not put fourth rain yet.

The waters or mist refered to they would be clouds.

Wikipedia

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Otherwise known as atmosphere.

Gen. 7:14. And God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,
15. and let them be lights in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.
16. God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night--and the stars.
17. God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth,
18. to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. (NRSV)

The Bible says that the sun and the moon are in the earth’s atmosphere? No, according to the Bible, the dome is a VERY strong, solid structure—indeed, it is so extremely strong that it was able to keep an ocean of water many times larger than all the oceans of the earth combined from falling to the earth until the windows of the heavens were opened,

Gen 6:11. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.

 

[Bluelion]

PG the most literal translation is ASB not the one you are using. And that is the consensus of many Biblical scholars. but I'll name one Ed Hindson said it was the most literal.

so lets look at the ASV.

Gen
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

See in 8 he called it Heaven, you forget Heaven was also being created at this time, this is not space but where the angels are. So more than just this world there is other dimensions, now your beloved science also recognizes this, at least in theory.

Just to give you an idea of how out of your depth you are.

Gen 7:14 ASV

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:

KJV
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

these are the most accurate translation and now where do they say dome.

You know I can pull out the new world translation which claims Jesus is His own God by adding the a before in the beginning the word was with God and the word was God, it says a God separate from the Father but that does not make it true now does it.

Qeen James Bible claims nothing wrong with a man sleeping with a man or woman with woman they wrote that out of the Bible, but that does not make it true now does it.

You are using a substandard translation that is not used in debating cicrles, what bibles are the go to KJV and ASV from there we go to strongs and then Greek and Hebrew.

Why do people feel the need to call them self Christians if they don't belive God in the first place? Not saying you, but let me ask. If you do not believe God nor the prophets He sent why do you want any part with Him? Many people want to live in sin but still want to go to Heaven, indeed i am one, but you know what if God said today you will no longer do anything with out me telling you to do it and you will never sin again, I would say great. That's the goal. I don't want my own will. Jesus did nothing of His own will only God's, I want to be like that, can you say the same? if the answer is yes, how so. God tells us believe in Him and His word, but you say it has faults, is that faith to you? is that trust? faith and trust in what, you? Because from me looking at it I don't see anything that makes the person who says God error any different then the atheist. The atheist says prove it to me, those who say the Bible has errors say prove it to me. Those two people both rely on their self, their own knowledge and understanding, That is not faith.
Faith is saying I am blind, but i know you see Jesus even though I can not see it, i know you will lead me. Its the sinner who says i am wretched but you can save me God. That is Faith.

def

faith noun \&#712;f&#257;th\
: strong belief or trust in someone or something

: belief in the existence of God : strong religious feelings or beliefs

: a system of religious beliefs
Beat your friends at SCRABBLE® with our
official Word Finder Tool »
plural faiths

Full Definition of FAITH

1
a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty
b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2
a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion
b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3
: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>

see that number 2 it says believe in the doctrine of the religion, So by this definition the person who does not believe the Bible has no faith. by man's own definition even.

What would you say about all that? Also I would like my question answered. it is, Paul said if anyone comes preaching something other than I have preached they are a false teacher. You have said Paul was in error that seems like preaching against what Paul Preached? How do you answer Paul's charge to those who say he error or he was wrong, that is they are false teachers?

 

[PrincetonGuy]

PG the most literal translation is ASB not the one you are using. And that is the consensus of many Biblical scholars. but I'll name one Ed Hindson said it was the most literal.

Being the most literal translation is NOT AT ALL the same as being the most accurate translation. The NRSV is only a little less literal than the now antiquated ASV, and it is VERY MUCH more accurate!

You are using a substandard translation that is not used in debating cicrles, what bibles are the go to KJV and ASV from there we go to strongs and then Greek and Hebrew.

The NRSV is the most accurate of the commonly used English translations, and in academic media it is BY FAR the most commonly quoted English translation of the Bible, having now superceded the RSV. The ASV is now so terribly outdated that it has ceased to be quoted in academic media except to demonstrate how unreliable old translations of the Bible are.

The NRSV correctly translates the Hebrew word &#1512;&#1464;&#1511;&#1460;&#1497;&#1506;&#1463; (râq&#305;&#770;ya&#8219 as “dome.” The evidence for the correctness of this translation is found in the use of this word in ancient Hebrew literature. Based upon this usage, the Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs published by Oxford University gives us the following meaning of it in Gen. 1:7, “the vault of heaven, or ‘firmament,’ regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting ‘waters’ above it.” (p. 956)

6-8 Second Work: The Firmament.—The second fiat calls into existence a firmament, whose function is to divide the primeval waters into an upper and lower ocean, leaving a space between as the theater of further creative developments. The “firmament” is the dome of heaven, which to the ancients was no optical illusion, but a material structure, sometimes compared to an “upper chamber” (Ps. 104:12, Am 9:6) supported by “pillars” (Jb 26:11), and resembling in its surface a “molten mirror” (Jb 37:18). Above this are the heavenly waters, from which the rain descends through “windows” or “doors” (Gn 7:11, 8:2, 2 Ki 7:2, 19) opened and shut by God at His pleasure (Ps 78:23).​

John Skinner, Principal and Professor of Old Testament Language and Literature, Westminster College, Cambridge (in his commentary on Genesis, page 21).

 

[mikedsjr]

Princeton, How can you say

Scientists believe that it would have required a miracle for Jesus to have risen from the dead. The study of miracles is outside the bounds of science, so whether Jesus rose from the dead is outside of the bounds of science

Not true. Science, today, is strictly based in empirical positivism. It would utterly reject miracles are a thing.

Preserving one's intellectual integrity means siding with science on issues of science, but siding with religion on issues of religion. There is no conflict between good science and pure religion.

This is what it is about with you. The fear of the science is the beginning of wisdom to you. I don't find you amusing at all. Spouting off "Intellectual integrity" is just code words to impose Scripture is a subjective book of ideas and to believe it is just personal preference. You hold to a empricism and even at that its even inconsistent because you hold to miracles of your own choosing.

I'm completely done from this thread if you don't give a verse spells out, "The earth is flat".

 

[Bluelion]

Being the most literal translation is NOT AT ALL the same as being the most accurate translation. The NRSV is only a little less literal than the now antiquated ASV, and it is VERY MUCH more accurate!



The NRSV is the most accurate of the commonly used English translations, and in academic media it is BY FAR the most commonly quoted English translation of the Bible, having now superceded the RSV. The ASV is now so terribly outdated that it has ceased to be quoted in academic media except to demonstrate how unreliable old translations of the Bible are.

The NRSV correctly translates the Hebrew word &#1512;&#1464;&#1511;&#1460;&#1497;&#1506;&#1463; (râq&#305;&#770;ya&#8219 as “dome.” The evidence for the correctness of this translation is found in the use of this word in ancient Hebrew literature. Based upon this usage, the Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs published by Oxford University gives us the following meaning of it in Gen. 1:7, “the vault of heaven, or ‘firmament,’ regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting ‘waters’ above it.” (p. 956)

6-8 Second Work: The Firmament.—The second fiat calls into existence a firmament, whose function is to divide the primeval waters into an upper and lower ocean, leaving a space between as the theater of further creative developments. The “firmament” is the dome of heaven, which to the ancients was no optical illusion, but a material structure, sometimes compared to an “upper chamber” (Ps. 104:12, Am 9:6) supported by “pillars” (Jb 26:11), and resembling in its surface a “molten mirror” (Jb 37:18). Above this are the heavenly waters, from which the rain descends through “windows” or “doors” (Gn 7:11, 8:2, 2 Ki 7:2, 19) opened and shut by God at His pleasure (Ps 78:23).​

John Skinner, Principal and Professor of Old Testament Language and Literature, Westminster College, Cambridge (in his commentary on Genesis, page 21).

I am not going any further until you answer the question about Paul.

And what Bible school did you go to? Because i am in school and no one quotes from the Bible you use it is NASB and KJV NIV AND NLT.