Four corners flat earth

[now faith]

As I said earlier, the Bible is written across various time periods, by many people, for various reasons, influenced by various cultures, full of different types of literary genres (in other words Genesis's genre not being historical does not mean I can't trust what the Gospels say).

And being inspired by God, does not always have to mean, "God told someone to write something down.....word for word....and the man did exactly that"

Therefore I don't have to follow some slippery slope fallacy, that if God did not inspire the biblical writers through dictation, that means all that they write down is useless crap.

What do you base your foundation of truth on?

What do you base Christianity on ?


Useless crap?

 

[Bluelion]

Amen,as well Matthew,Mark,Luke,John,and Paul walked with our Lord in person.
Paul met him in a different way but still in person.

It is getting bad when Christians refer to the Bible as crap.
some of these post look like the open Forums.

Brother you saw the thread go dead when i asked them to answer Paul charge against them. Paul said it best if "anyone" comes preaching something other than what I have preached, they are a false teacher. This is not my judgement nor can I take credit it for the thought. It is laid out by God through Paul. I would be very interested to know how they justify preaching something else?

We are not allowed to question a persons salvation on here, and I am not doing this now nor have I, but I would remind any guest reading. It takes more than saying you are a child of God to actually be one. This problem has been pointed out throughout the Bible. I am not pointing fingers or condemning anyone, Simple stating truth.

 

[now faith]

Well The Baptist I grew up in,stood on God's Word.
Even though we have our differences,I have never read a post like that here.

 

[Bluelion]

Well The Baptist I grew up in,stood on God's Word.
Even though we have our differences,I have never read a post like that here.

It's nothing new brother don't be fooled, History always repeats, proverbs.

People have been claiming all kinds of things in "God's Name" for a long time.

This is why I am at war with science, it is the religion which claims it is not one, and it attacks God's word at its core, funny thing is deep down in their heart they know God is God no matter how much people deny Him. Every knee will bow.

 

[Hupomone10]

I know it's been said in this tread, but I think bears repeating. Although I don't have the statistics to prove it, I believe most scientists believe it is impossible for someone who has been dead three days to come back to life.

If preserving one's intellectual integrity means siding with science, it would seem that one should give up a belief in the resurrection of Christ. And the resurrection of the believer as well.

I can't understand why anyone who believes the Bible is inspired, yet doesn't accept the account of Genesis as meaning what it says, would believe the Bible means what it says when it claims that Jesus rose from the dead.

Blessings,
H.

 

[Bluelion]

I know it's been said in this tread, but I think bears repeating. Although I don't have the statistics to prove it, I believe most scientists believe it is impossible for someone who has been dead three days to come back to life.

If preserving one's intellectual integrity means siding with science, it would seem that one should give up a belief in the resurrection of Christ. And the resurrection of the believer as well.

I can't understand why anyone who believes the Bible is inspired, yet doesn't accept the account of Genesis as meaning what it says, would believe the Bible means what it says when it claims that Jesus rose from the dead.

Blessings,
H.

That is a good point and one worth repeating. If we can not trust all of God's Word, how then can we trust in salvation? I think it is a slippery slope.

 

[AmericanChristian91]

It is getting bad when Christians refer to the Bible as crap.

I did not call the Bible itself crap, I was saying that the Bible still has meaning/importance, not uselessness (aka crap), if God did not use dictation to inspire the writers.

In other words, I was saying the Bible was not crap.

The context in why I said "useless crap", because the person I was quoting, said, "Either the writers wrote down what God said, or they made it up". He was basically saying that if dictation did not happen (i.e God telling the writers exact words to write down, and authors write down the exact words), then the Bible would become useless (since it would all be made up, without God playing a role). I was correcting him and basically saying (in my own flavor) that we could still trust what God is trying to teach to us through the Bible, even if the people inspired by him, did not write down passages of the bible through dictation.

 

[Hammster]

I did not call the Bible itself crap, I was saying that the Bible still has meaning/importance, not uselessness (aka crap), if God did not use dictation to inspire the writers.

In other words, I was saying the Bible was not crap.

The context in why I said "useless crap", because the person I was quoting, said, "Either the writers wrote down what God said, or they made it up". He was basically saying that if dictation did not happen (i.e God telling the writers exact words to write down, and authors write down the exact words), then the Bible would become useless (since it would all be made up, without God playing a role). I was correcting him and basically saying (in my own flavor) that we could still trust what God is trying to teach to us through the Bible, even if the people inspired by him, did not write down passages of the bible through dictation.

You missed my point. There are points in scripture where God is quoted directly, such as the Ten Commandments. If we cannot trust even that, how do we trust any of it?

 

[godenver1]

That is a good point and one worth repeating. If we can not trust all of God's Word, how then can we trust in salvation? I think it is a slippery slope.

I am no longer Baptist, so I have to tread lightly. If I infringe on any rules I will gladly leave the discussion. But I cannot in anyway see how not believing all of the Bible is literal or that God dictated the Bible word-for-word equates to not having "trust" in God's word.

https://biologos.org/questions/early-interpretations-of-genesis

Given the stark difference between evolution and six-day creation, many people assume that Darwin’s theory shook the foundations of the Christian faith. In truth, the literal six-day interpretation of Genesis 1-2 was not the only perspective held by Christians prior to modern science. St. Augustine (354-430), John Calvin (1509-1564), John Wesley (1703-1791), and others supported the idea of Accommodation. In the Accommodation view, Genesis 1-2 was written in a simple allegorical fashion to make it easy for people of that time to understand. In fact, Augustine suggested that the 6 days of Genesis 1 describe a single day of creation. St. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274) argued that God did not create things in their final state, but created them to have potential to develop as he intended. The views of these and other Christian leaders are consistent with God creating life by means of evolution.

https://biologos.org/questions/early-interpretations-of-genesis

Why should I subscribe to a theology of a literal Genesis that some Baptists teach when revered fathers like Augustine apparently didn't?

If I have misread or misinterpreted your post (or broken forum rules) then I unreservedly apologise and hope you'll forgive me.

 

[AmericanChristian91]

If we cannot trust even that, how do we trust any of it?

My reason, is having faith, faith to accept the possibility that certain quotes in the bible from God, are not actually God himself stating word for word (in the cultures native language), but instead the author(s), in their own words, attributing some message to God (or what they believe he wants), while also believing that if that did happen, God's will still works its way in.

Same way I can believe the literary genre of Genesis was never intended to show an accurate portrayal of the origins of the materialistic world, but instead more focused on the "why", and theology (therefore I don't actually think, at the beginning of the universe, God actually spoke the word, "Let there be Light"). While at the same time trusting in the Gospels and Jesus's resurrection and teachings.

 

[Hammster]

It is called having faith to accept the possibility that certain quotes in the bible from God, are not actually God himself stating word for word (in the cultures native language), but instead the author(s), in their own words, attributing some message to God (or what they believe he wants), while also believing that if that did happen, God's will still works its way in.

Same way I can believe the literary genre of Genesis was never intended to show an accurate portrayal of the origins of the materialistic world, but instead more focused on the "why", and theology (therefore I don't actually think, at the beginning of the universe, God actually spoke the word, "Let there be Light"). While at the same time trusting in the Gospels and Jesus's resurrection and teachings.

Which of the Ten Commandments do you trust?

 

[AmericanChristian91]

Which of the Ten Commandments do you trust?

All of them, I believe it was God's intention for us to have them, and follow them.

 

[Hammster]

All of them, I believe it was God's intention for us to have them, and follow them.

Even this one?


8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Exodus 20:8-11

 

[AmericanChristian91]

Even this one?


8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Exodus 20:8-11

Yes, perhaps not in the same perspective as you do, but yes.

And now im going to bed, so I can't respond anymore for now.

 

[Hammster]

Yes, perhaps not in the same perspective as you do, but yes.

And now im going to bed, so I can't respond anymore for now.

Right. You can't take it at face value. You must filter through...whatever it is you filter it though.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

I know it's been said in this tread, but I think bears repeating. Although I don't have the statistics to prove it, I believe most scientists believe it is impossible for someone who has been dead three days to come back to life.

Scientists believe that it would have required a miracle for Jesus to have risen from the dead. The study of miracles is outside the bounds of science, so whether Jesus rose from the dead is outside of the bounds of science—but very much within the bounds of the Christian faith. Conservative, evangelical Christianity accepts the miracle as genuine; and, being a conservative, evangelical Baptist Christian—so do I. Being also a scientist, as a scientist, the resurrection is irrelevant.

If preserving one's intellectual integrity means siding with science, it would seem that one should give up a belief in the resurrection of Christ. And the resurrection of the believer as well.

Preserving one's intellectual integrity means siding with science on issues of science, but siding with religion on issues of religion. There is no conflict between good science and pure religion.

I can't understand why anyone who believes the Bible is inspired, yet doesn't accept the account of Genesis as meaning what it says, would believe the Bible means what it says when it claims that Jesus rose from the dead.

Belief that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant word of God does NOT mean accepting as historically accurate, ancient accounts which the Bible clearly presents as a series of epic tales.

Belief that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant word of God does NOT mean accepting as historically accurate in every detail, ancient accounts of Peter’s denial of Jesus.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Which of the Ten Commandments do you trust?

This thread is not about the Ten Commandments—it is about the flat earth with four corners that is described in the Bible. Ancient Hebrew cosmology expressly teaches that the earth is flat and covered with a dome, and that teaching is expressly taught in the Bible.

ויעשׂ אלהים את־הרקיע ויבדל בין המים אשׁר מתחת לרקיע ובין המים אשׁר מעל לרקיע ויהי־כן׃ Gen. 1:7

Gen. 1:7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.

The NRSV correctly translates the Hebrew word רָקִיעַ (râqı̂ya&#8219 as “dome.” The evidence for the correctness of this translation is found in the use of this word in ancient Hebrew literature. Based upon this usage, the Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs published by Oxford University gives us the following meaning of it in Gen. 1:7, “the vault of heaven, or ‘firmament,’ regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting ‘waters’ above it.” (p. 956)

According to ancient Hebrew cosmology based upon Genesis, Job, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and other books in the Old Testament, the universe is composed of three parts.

The heavens (Hebrew = שָׁמַיִם [shâmayim]) above,
The earth (Hebrew = אֶרֶץ [eh'-rets]) in the middle
The world of the dead (Hebrew שְׁאוֹל [sheh-ole'] below

For a diagram of this universe, and much more information from Christian scholars, please see here, A COMMON COSMOLOGY OF THE ANCIENT WORLD

The story of the Genesis flood is dependent upon this cosmology:

Gen. 1:6. And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
8. God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
9. And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.
10. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. (NRSV)

Gen. 7:11. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
12. The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights. (NRSV)

Moreover, only a flat earth has four corners:

Isa. 11:12. He will raise a signal for the nations,
and will assemble the outcasts of Israel,
and gather the dispersed of Judah
from the four corners of the earth. (NRSV)

Rev.7:1. After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on earth or sea or against any tree. (NRSV)

The literal four corners of the earth in the Bible gave rise to today’s popular expression.

Furthermore, Jesus was able to see all the kingdoms of the world from “a very high mountain.” This would have been impossible on a spherical earth:

Matt. 4:8. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor; (NRSV)

 

[Hupomone10]

Even this one?


8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates.
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Exodus 20:8-11

Bravo!

 

[Blue Wren]

This thread is not about the Ten Commandments—it is about the flat earth with four corners that is described in the Bible. Ancient Hebrew cosmology expressly teaches that the earth is flat and covered with a dome, and that teaching is expressly taught in the Bible.

ויעשׂ אלהים את־הרקיע ויבדל בין המים אשׁר מתחת לרקיע ובין המים אשׁר מעל לרקיע ויהי־כן׃ Gen. 1:7

Gen. 1:7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.

The NRSV correctly translates the Hebrew word רָקִיעַ (râqı̂ya&#8219 as “dome.” The evidence for the correctness of this translation is found in the use of this word in ancient Hebrew literature. Based upon this usage, the Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament by Brown, Driver, and Briggs published by Oxford University gives us the following meaning of it in Gen. 1:7, “the vault of heaven, or ‘firmament,’ regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting ‘waters’ above it.” (p. 956)

According to ancient Hebrew cosmology based upon Genesis, Job, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and other books in the Old Testament, the universe is composed of three parts.

The heavens (Hebrew = שָׁמַיִם [shâmayim]) above,
The earth (Hebrew = אֶרֶץ [eh'-rets]) in the middle
The world of the dead (Hebrew שְׁאוֹל [sheh-ole'] below

For a diagram of this universe, and much more information from Christian scholars, please see here, A COMMON COSMOLOGY OF THE ANCIENT WORLD

The story of the Genesis flood is dependent upon this cosmology:

Gen. 1:6. And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.”
7. So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
8. God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
9. And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.
10. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. (NRSV)

Gen. 7:11. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
12. The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights. (NRSV)

Moreover, only a flat earth has four corners:

Isa. 11:12. He will raise a signal for the nations,
and will assemble the outcasts of Israel,
and gather the dispersed of Judah
from the four corners of the earth. (NRSV)

Rev.7:1. After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on earth or sea or against any tree. (NRSV)

The literal four corners of the earth in the Bible gave rise to today’s popular expression.

Furthermore, Jesus was able to see all the kingdoms of the world from “a very high mountain.” This would have been impossible on a spherical earth:

Matt. 4:8. Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor; (NRSV)

 

[Blue Wren]

I did not call the Bible itself crap, I was saying that the Bible still has meaning/importance, not uselessness (aka crap), if God did not use dictation to inspire the writers.

In other words, I was saying the Bible was not crap.

The context in why I said "useless crap", because the person I was quoting, said, "Either the writers wrote down what God said, or they made it up". He was basically saying that if dictation did not happen (i.e God telling the writers exact words to write down, and authors write down the exact words), then the Bible would become useless (since it would all be made up, without God playing a role). I was correcting him and basically saying (in my own flavor) that we could still trust what God is trying to teach to us through the Bible, even if the people inspired by him, did not write down passages of the bible through dictation.