Forgiveness following divorce and remarriage

[hedrick]

did you ask the children?

This is hard to get real data on. There is plenty of information showing the divorce is hard on kids, but very little comparing it with the alternatives. The following is interesting, I'd never depend upon a single survey, particularly without knowing who did or it how: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...rce-resolution-survey-rather-parents-separate

 

[nanookadenord]

This is hard to get real data on. There is plenty of information showing the divorce is hard on kids, but very little comparing it with the alternatives. The following is interesting, I'd never depend upon a single survey, particularly without knowing who did or it how: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...rce-resolution-survey-rather-parents-separate

I can honestly say that I am happy my parents divorced and my mom kept me from my father. She would tell me he was abusive, an alcoholic and a drunk. My half sister confirmed what my mom had said when I spoke to her for the first time a couple years ago. He hasn't changed according to her.

So would I have been better off if they stayed together? Well, after he strangled a kitten in front of my mom while she was pregnant with me, I may not be here to type this today.

 

[RDKirk]

Yes, I think I understood your intention correctly. And I believe that you based your argumentation on 1 Cor 7:15 (?)
But really, in spite of what one might think based on the KJV translation "not bound" in 7:15, it is, if you dive into the greek, not to be translated "not bound", but rather "not under slavery". It is a tone of difference. But it means that the freedom is not to remarry, but to live alone. That is what I would get from 1 Cor 7:15.

That would be the same thing that Paul says more clearly in verses 10 and 11:

To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

If Paul meant to say the same thing in verse 15 that he said in verse 11, he would have said the same thing. In fact, he wouldn't have had to say two things, he'd simply have addressed verses 10 and 11 to all married, rather than give one command "to the married" and a different command to Christian spouses abandoned by pagans.

 

[RDKirk]

This is hard to get real data on. There is plenty of information showing the divorce is hard on kids, but very little comparing it with the alternatives. The following is interesting, I'd never depend upon a single survey, particularly without knowing who did or it how: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...rce-resolution-survey-rather-parents-separate

Still not a complete answer:

The poll found that 82% of those aged 14 to 22 who have endured family breakups would prefer their parents to part if they are unhappy. They said it was ultimately better that their parents had divorced, with one of those surveyed adding that children “will often realise, later on, that it was for the best”.

Nothing was asked of children aged 14 to 22 who lived with both parents if they would have preferred for their parents to break up.

Nor was the question put to children older than "children" who have had their own adult relationships if they thought the same as they thought as children.

Nor do we see a breakout of whether these opinions depended on what "unhappy marriage" means. Physical abuse? Or just "not my soulmate?"

 

[hedrick]

If I had my choice, the study would have looked at the situation before the divorce, and asked kids several different questions. But I didn’t have the option to design the survey.

You originally asked what kids involved in divorce thought of it. This is the only result I’ve been able to find, and the answer is surprisingly positive.

I’m much less interested in views of kids who haven’t been through divorces. The fact that most of the kids felt that divorce was justified with fairly vague wording suggests that most accepted the divorce. You’re right that it would be interesting to know whether they had been abused, but surely most weren’t. And the question wasn’t whether divorce was justified by abuse but simply by parents being unhappy. So in a sense this is a fairly strong result. It suggests that kids were OK with divorce even when it didn’t result from abuse.

Now personally I think divorce has likely gone too far. My original statement was that there were marriages worse than divorce, but I made no claim that all divorce is justified. The little data I’ve seen says that it’s not just abuse, but even regular conflict that produce outcomes at least as bad as divorce. To me, “unhappiness” seems a bit weak to justify divorce. But I’m not in a position to do my own studies.

I think this is still better than the usual data, which simply shows that kids who have been through divorce have problems. The difficulty is that no such study that I’ve ever seen has had decent controls. That is, there’s been no effort (that I’ve seen) to see whether kids in similar types of marriage where there wasn’t divorce were better or worse off. The only comparisons I’ve seen compare divorce with “intact” marriages. But that’s not what I call a proper control, because surely marriages that end in divorce tend to have more problems than “intact” marriages, and would continued that way even if they were prevented from divorce.

 

[Alithis]

it includes stopping the sin.

Absolutley... if we did not cease the practice of sin ..we would not be changing our mind and agreeing with God at all .
He NEVER tells us to sin

 

[Alithis]

I agree that it is important to follow God's will to the best of our abilities, but I'm still trying to understand why so many people think that a sincerely repentant divorced person cannot earn God's forgiveness if he or she chooses to remarry. Isn't God's mercy available to even the worst of sinners?

Scripturally ?..No..repeated wilful sin has no sacrifice to cover it.

 

[Alithis]

1 Corinthians 7:10-11
To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband 11 (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband)—and that the husband should not divorce his wife. rsv
​

Some women must separate from their husbands because their lives and/or the lives of their children are in danger. If they separate from their husbands because of this, they cannot remarry if their husbands divorce them. The women cannot remarry until their husband dies.

If a husband divorces his wife, he must remain single after the divorce or reconcile with his wife. He cannot remarry until his wife dies. In that culture, it was the husband who initiated divorce.

There is definitely forgiveness for divorce if the person who caused the divorce is repentant, but the forgiven person is still not allowed to remarry. The forgiven person cannot remarry until his/her spouse dies.

Also, the wronged person in a divorce may not remarry until his/her spouse dies.


That is why Jesus taught:

Luke 16:18
“Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery. rsv​

That is why the disciples said:

Matthew 19:10
The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is not expedient to marry.” rsv
​

That is why Paul taught:

2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be mismated with unbelievers. For what partnership have righteousness and iniquity? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? rsv
​

Two people who marry become one flesh. Their one flesh can only be separated by the death of one of them.

If a person has sex with someone else while his spouse is still living, this person is an adulterer. This person commits adultery every time he/she has sex with anyone who is not his/her spouse.

You wont make friends with this post ...
But that is because the truth is no rounded sword.
But it does not explore nor address the dillema .
So now you have people..they sinned some aspects by divorcing (circunstances differ) but unforgivness iis sin too .
They sinned by remarrying ..
Thier former partner remarried also ..both have children.
Now..they have come to a place inlife that they are acknowledhing all that past sin that lead to this confused mess..
What do they do ?
Do they leave thier present spous And return to the former one? But wait is not that asinagainst the law also?for in all this we must apply law for it to be just.
But.....we are not under that law.
So we must act inthe love of God.
To the married ...do not divorce..its not forgivness its not love.
To the remarried ..in what state(marital) you come to repentance..stay in that situation . for to further shatter the present family unit ..is not love.

Weare to live by the law ofthespirit oflife in christ jesus..and that is the law of love.
And to those who have not known this mess. Obey the holy spirit..and younever will.
And stop idolizing marriage.
Its no. Your singulargoal in life..following Jesus is.

 

[RDKirk]

Scripturally ?..No..repeated wilful sin has no sacrifice to cover it.

But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery -- Matthew 5

Do you think the use of "causes" by Jesus implies willfulness on the part of the woman?

 

[Alithis]

But I say that a man who divorces his wife, unless she has been unfaithful, causes her to commit adultery -- Matthew 5

Do you think the use of "causes" by Jesus implies willfulness on the part of the woman?

Its a topic within a topic... And i do see your point and thankyou for bringing it to attention.i will surrender it to the lord for what he will show me .

 

[Jan001]

I

Is that why inappropriate content sites are the busiest on the web,is that sex for sale is such a booming business,is that why people destroy their lives,families and careers.....because sex is overrated.

You have been married 40 years but know you would be happy if not....interesting.

People who visit inappropriate content sites do not have self control. They prefer self-gratification rather than anything else including their relationship with God, their lives, families, and careers. Sex is indeed over-rated for them; they are willing to sacrifice everything of true value for sexual self-gratification!

I find my joy in God my Savior first of all. This does not mean that I prefer to not be married. Because I find my joy in God my Savior, I will be happy and content whether I am married or unmarried.

 

[Jan001]

Yes, I think I understood your intention correctly. And I believe that you based your argumentation on 1 Cor 7:15 (?)
But really, in spite of what one might think based on the KJV translation "not bound" in 7:15, it is, if you dive into the greek, not to be translated "not bound", but rather "not under slavery". It is a tone of difference. But it means that the freedom is not to remarry, but to live alone. That is what I would get from 1 Cor 7:15.

Perhaps that is why Paul preferred singleness.

1 Corinthians 7:28b
........Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. rsv​

 

[Jan001]

You wont make friends with this post ...
But that is because the truth is no rounded sword.
But it does not explore nor address the dillema .
So now you have people..they sinned some aspects by divorcing (circunstances differ) but unforgivness iis sin too .
They sinned by remarrying ..
Thier former partner remarried also ..both have children.
Now..they have come to a place inlife that they are acknowledhing all that past sin that lead to this confused mess..
What do they do ?
Do they leave thier present spous And return to the former one? But wait is not that asinagainst the law also?for in all this we must apply law for it to be just.
But.....we are not under that law.
So we must act inthe love of God.
To the married ...do not divorce..its not forgivness its not love.
To the remarried ..in what state(marital) you come to repentance..stay in that situation . for to further shatter the present family unit ..is not love.

Weare to live by the law ofthespirit oflife in christ jesus..and that is the law of love.
And to those who have not known this mess. Obey the holy spirit..and younever will.
And stop idolizing marriage.
Its no. Your singulargoal in life..following Jesus is.

Some people in this situation choose to stop having sexual intimacy with their second spouse, but they also continue to live with the second spouse as a family. This way they do not continue to commit adultery.

 

[RDKirk]

Some people in this situation choose to stop having sexual intimacy with their second spouse, but they also continue to live with the second spouse as a family. This way they do not continue to commit adultery.

But that is also a fraud.

I would put further that if a woman with children is abandoned by her husband and the congregation insists she must remain unmarried, then the congregation is also responsible for the financial support of her fatherless children--as scripture repeats several times in both the OT and NT.

 

[Alithis]

Yes..i observe it causes such entanglements where wrong doing can
be perpetuated by the effort to do right..
And for this reason i see that upon sincere repentance .. The laa oflove mustbe applied.
For intrue repentance salvation begins....

 

[Jan001]

But that is also a fraud.

I would put further that if a woman with children is abandoned by her husband and the congregation insists she must remain unmarried, then the congregation is also responsible for the financial support of her fatherless children--as scripture repeats several times in both the OT and NT.

The woman is not a widow. She is not free to remarry. Her husband is still living.

God's law cannot be abandoned. This woman chose the wrong man to marry and it is not the church's responsibility to take care of her financial needs. She is an adult and she must be responsible for the consequences of her own free will choices.

These children have a father who is still living. This woman and her children most likely have other relatives.

1 Timothy 5:8
If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. rsv​

1 Timothy 5:3-5
Honor widows who are real widows. 4 If a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn their religious duty to their own family and make some return to their parents; for this is acceptable in the sight of God. 5 She who is a real widow, and is left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day; rsv​

 

[RDKirk]

The woman is not a widow. She is not free to remarry. Her husband is still living.

God's law cannot be abandoned. This woman chose the wrong man to marry and it is not the church's responsibility to take care of her financial needs. She is an adult and she must be responsible for the consequences of her own free will choices.

These children have a father who is still living. This woman and her children most likely have other relatives.

1 Timothy 5:8
If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. rsv​

1 Timothy 5:3-5
Honor widows who are real widows. 4 If a widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn their religious duty to their own family and make some return to their parents; for this is acceptable in the sight of God. 5 She who is a real widow, and is left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day; rsv​

You understand what "abandoned" means, right?

 

[Jan001]

You understand what "abandoned" means, right?

You understand what "adult" means, right?

She is responsible to support herself and her children.

 

[Open Heart]

We know the law of Moses did not always teach what God preferred.

Jesus Christ taught the following about marriage and divorce:

If Christians would actually read the Torah, they would find that Jesus basically taught the same thing.

Deuteronomy 24:1 If a man take a wife, and have her, and she find not favour in his eyes, for some uncleanness: he shall write a bill of divorce, and shall give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

 

[RDKirk]

You understand what "adult" means, right?

She is responsible to support herself and her children.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction -- James 1

This idea that everyone is on his own is an Americanism, not Christianity.