Forgiveness and Jesus

[sjdean]

That was a good question.

As the Bible is littered with examples in the old testament of God being a forgiving God if you turn to him, then why did we need Jesus?

Was it merely to fulfil the law?

Wasn't it said "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."?

So even after that, if it's all about God and the law is fulfilled, why is Jesus still our central fixation?

Cheers
Simon

 

[salida]

Yes, a perfect sacrifice is needed.

Visit: www.livingwaters.com/good/ This is why we need Jesus.

 

[AvgJoe]

That was a good question.

As the Bible is littered with examples in the old testament of God being a forgiving God if you turn to him, then why did we need Jesus?

Isn't Jesus God? Speaking of Jesus' birth, in Matthew 1:23, the Bible says, "...and they will call him Immanuel" —which means, "God with us." Jesus said, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30). When Philip ask Jesus to show them the Father, in John 14:9, Jesus replied, "Don't you know...anyone who has seen me has seen the Father."

Was it merely to fulfil the law?

Merely to fulfill the law? To fulfill the law is to never break it, not even one little time. Never tell a lie, never covet your neighbor's stuff, never put anything before God, never steal anything, etc. Yes, Jesus being fully God and fully man is the only person capable of fulfilling/never breaking the law.

Wasn't it said "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."?

These two laws encompass all of the laws that were given. If you love God with all your heart, you will never put anything else before Him. If you love your neighbor as yourself, you won't steal from them, tell them lies, be envious of them or act selfishly towards them. We have all broken these laws over and over again.

So even after that, if it's all about God and the law is fulfilled, why is Jesus still our central fixation?

The wages of sin is death. Eternal separation from God for breaking the law, just once, and we all break the law everyday. Sin must be judged and what is the judgement? Death. We are eternally lost in our sin. We deserve death.

What are we to do? There is no way for us to save ourselves because we have already sinned and the wages of sin is death. Jesus lived a sinless life. He never broke the law even once. His sinless life and the fact that He was fully man qualified Him to be the atoning sacrifice for all mankind. In other words, since He never broke the law, He could die in my place and pay the wages for my sin. He takes my sin and gives me His righteouness so that I am now right with God. My sin has been judged and the price for it has been paid. Someone will pay for your sin. Either you or Jesus. Only through Jesus can your sin debt be paid for and you be made right with God. Jesus is the bridge, over the chasm of sin, between God and man.

That is why Jesus is central to the Christian faith.

 

[sjdean]

I think I got lost in the forgiveness vs salvation thing... If we can be forgiven, then why do we need salvation, isn't that the same thing?

I presume you can be forgiven but not necessarily saved after sinning. Im recalling something in acts chapter 2, maybe chapter 3, about David?

 

[Johnnz]

Salvation is what Jesus offers us - participation in His life and purposes for this world. Forgiveness was achieved for us by Jesus so that we can fully enter into His salvation, a doorway into God's treasures.

John
NZ

 

[FatherHaveMercy]

This may be a little off topic but it still has something to do with the conversation. In the Old Testiment there had to be blood shed for the forgivness of sins just like with Adam and Eve God sacrifised and animal to make Adam and Eves coverings {animal skins}, I mean the skins just didnt appear, God shed blood to get them. So then he sent Jesus Christ his son to cover all our sins and to shed blood to cover all our sins. Hope I could Help.

 

[ChildOfGod97]

That was a good question.

As the Bible is littered with examples in the old testament of God being a forgiving God if you turn to him, then why did we need Jesus?

Was it merely to fulfil the law?

Wasn't it said "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."?

So even after that, if it's all about God and the law is fulfilled, why is Jesus still our central fixation?

Cheers
Simon

Jesus alone came from Heaven. The prophets and any righteous before Jesus were saved by the Spirit in trust, before Jesus came. It is like anyone in an inheritance, they do not gain their inheritance until the father dies. Before Jesus people were in a trust, and many remain in a trust until they find Jesus. When they find Jesus they come into the inheritance.

No man could love God apart from the Spirit of God, for man is of below, and God is of above. He could not know God apart from Jesus.

That the prophets testified of Jesus beforehand show they had the Holy Spirit and that they had the Holy Spirit proved Jesus would come and die. The Holy Spirit is outside of time and shows that by speaking of things that have not yet come.

The Law is for sinners and has only been fulfilled in Jesus. The Law is truly spiritual beyond understanding and should be thought of a sort of spiritual DNA of Jesus. The Law condemns sinners, it has no power to save.

All have transgressed the Law since eating of the Tree of Knowledge, for all men are less then God, which means they are evil.

God alone is good.

Everyone born again is born into the Spirit of Jesus, the very Spirit of God, and so have died on the cross with Jesus and so to the condemnation of the Law, and been resurrected in new life now no longer under the Law -- now in the Spirit which fulfills the Law, the Spirit of Jesus, of God.


The Law does not have many curses, but one curse. The many curses are one. That one curse is the curse of death with no power to save from death. Jesus took that penalty on Himself, and so has paid the price in full completely erasing it from the bodies of all who have His Spirit living in their hearts.

 

[sbbqb7n16]

sj -concerning "why the sacrifice?" read Hebrews 10

Why are we still focused on Jesus? Because without Him, we have nothing.

4. "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.5. "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.6. "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
John 15:4-6

 

[Johnnz]

Jesus conquered death itself, something not achieved under the Mosaic covenant. Plus, He restored our true humanity as the last Adam, bringing the life of an unfallen human into this world through successfully resisting Satan. Through that we are now adopted as sons and daughters, no longer merely generic, forgiven human beings.

John
NZ

 

[oi_antz]

It's just a fact of life to be blunt. The parable of the garden of Eden is this: the fruit was taken from the world against God's will and because of that there is something crucial we are lacking. According to my present understanding, that fruit which was taken was the Christ - this is what we are lacking and because of this, the sin has entered the world to consume it with death.

Remember eternity is not constrained by time so you have to envisage the story in a metaphysical way that enables you to see how sin could exist before the incident occured. Jesus knew this, and it was His sacrifice to fulfil the story so the Holy spirit would be imparted to us and the process of resolution would begin. Remember, God has been watching mankind for many thousands of years, learning more and more about how much we Love Him and cry out to Him for forgiveness.

So while we know that Jesus can forgive us our sins in order to have peace, it is only the Father who can forgive the sin of taking His most precious fruit from the garden, and all we can do is demonstrate faith and pray most earnestly to The Father that His decision will come soon, that we as a human race will be forgiven and freed from the bondage to His enemy. That time will never be disclosed to a prophet, and even Christ does not know the time it will happen, but we can all do our little bit by praising God almighty for his unfailing Love and forgiveness.