for church of christ members:

[Adonaijah]

I am not a church of christ member but on occasion I attend one with my friend. Anyway, I was wondering if according to your doctrine if what this church is doing is accepted in your view. First off the preacher has said that if the congregation does not agree with him and the mens deciscions they are commiting sin and need to repent. These were his exact words. Not agreeing with him was sin? he has also recently stated that if the congregation invites an unbeliver into their home other than for a bible study they are commiting a sin. Also he has said that if the members do not give 10percent or more of their income to the church they can"t go there anymore. he also claims his denomination decended directly from the church in the book of acts. Is this what church of christ members really believe. Is this preacher saying and doing like most church of christ churches?

 

[HeyHomie]

Sounds like a congregation that's on its way to becoming a cult, if you ask me.

One of the sure signs of a cult is when the group's leaders teach that to question or disagree with its teaching is sinful.

 

[crawfish]

There are definitely some CofC's like that - mostly very small, rural churches. The CofC is unregulated, though, with no central authority - so the congregations can be very different in nature.

I would say most CofC's and their members do not agree with the opinions of that particular congregation. It's a case of a group of people trying so hard to do everything "right" that they lose sight of God's larger purpose. Very sad.

 

[crawfish]

I should add: it sounds like that preacher is making a power grab. MOST CofC's, by far, do NOT demand the tithe. To say "believe everything I say and give me your money" is the mark of a dangerous individual.

 

[JDIBe]

No, this does not agree with the doctrine of most coC and more importantly, with the Bible.

We do claim to be an attempt at a "restoration" of that first century church, not a denomination. Therefore we do not claim to be a "branch" of any particular denomination or even "Protestant". That is probably where the last statement comes from.

 

[- DRA -]

I am not a church of christ member but on occasion I attend one with my friend. Anyway, I was wondering if according to your doctrine if what this church is doing is accepted in your view. First off the preacher has said that if the congregation does not agree with him and the mens deciscions they are commiting sin and need to repent. These were his exact words. Not agreeing with him was sin? he has also recently stated that if the congregation invites an unbeliver into their home other than for a bible study they are commiting a sin. Also he has said that if the members do not give 10percent or more of their income to the church they can"t go there anymore. he also claims his denomination decended directly from the church in the book of acts. Is this what church of christ members really believe. Is this preacher saying and doing like most church of christ churches?

For sure, sin is either a transgression of or omission of something involving God's will. It separates us from God. Disagreeing with the preacher and the decisions of the men of the church aren't necessarily sin. However, they could be. In matters of doctrine, the Bible is clearly our sole guide (i.e. 2 Tim. 3:16-17). But, other matters also have to be decided upon. For instance, a church has to decide about providing a place of worship. Ultimately, some might think renting is the way to go. And, some might think buying a building right now is the way to go. It seems as if the church you describe has no elders. Therefore, the men of the church must find a peaceful (?) way to decide the matter with the church in mind (versus the wants and whims of certain individuals). After careful and deliberate thought and consideration seasoned with plenty of prayer for God's guidance in doing what best in His eyes, a decision will have to be reached. For sure, everyone is most likely not going to be pleased with the decision. In matters of judgment, some yielding must be done for the good of the church. Frankly, some folks aren't very gracious about doing such a thing, and would rather be divisive and contentious. While I don't know for sure, something like this may have been happening behind the scene.

However, if the preacher and/or the men of the church think that anyone that questions their teachings/beliefs/practices is guily of sin, they they should be reminded of passages such as Romans 13:3, 3:4a, and Matthew 7:13-20.

While I can't speak for everyone, it is my understanding that any church that is truly the church of Christ will have no other "doctrine" than God's word.

Instructions about giving under the law of Christ can be found in passages such as 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 and 2 Corinthians 9:6-7.

"Denomination" is from the mathematical term - the bottom number in a fraction. It implies the church is made up of churches. Such is not the case with the church we read about in the New Testament. It wasn't a denomination - but simply those who responded to Jesus' call to be free from their sins. Denominations came about hundreds of years later. Therefore, any church desiring to please God today should pattern themselves after the church the Lord established in the first century, not a denomination founded upon the teachings of men!

 

[- DRA -]

There are definitely some CofC's like that - mostly very small, rural churches. The CofC is unregulated, though, with no central authority - so the congregations can be very different in nature.

I would say most CofC's and their members do not agree with the opinions of that particular congregation. It's a case of a group of people trying so hard to do everything "right" that they lose sight of God's larger purpose. Very sad.

Concerning the comments that I put in red font, shouldn't God's people today try hard to do everything right (i.e. Luke 17:10)? Which things to you suggest it's okay to do wrong or not do at all?

 

[Adonaijah]

The disagreement with this preacher was with him saying that certain things were sin, even though the bible does not say they are sin, like dancing for example. He said it was a sin and if you allow your child to go to their prom you are commiting sin, if you have friends who are not believers you are commiting sin, if you invite an unbeliever to your house other than for bible study you commit sin. It just seems he is making up what he believes is sin and expects his congregation to abide by what he calls sin and if they don't agree they are sinning.A group of men in the church are going along with him agreeing with him in his heresy.They are being very bold about it sticking right with this preacher and thy keep a close eye on the congregation, if one does something they don't agree with they bring that person before the congregation and tell what that person did, and has that person ask for forgiveness and prayer. There are many other things that have happened in this church that I'd run out of space mentioning them all. I've talked to the other members of the congregation, they say they don't agree with him and what he says isn't biblical but they won't do or say anything. I just really hate to see a church turn from God's laws and become a seat of satan. And the members stand idoly by and let it happen.

 

[crawfish]

Concerning the comments that I put in red font, shouldn't God's people today try hard to do everything right (i.e. Luke 17:10)? Which things to you suggest it's okay to do wrong or not do at all?

It's a problem when you concentrate so much on figuring out the "right" way to do things that you forget why we're supposed to be doing them in the first place.

God's commands are not an arbitrary set of rules and regulations set up to test us; they are there for a very specific purpose. For instance, we are to take the Lord's Supper "in remembrance of Him" - if we take it without our minds set towards Him, does it matter how "right" we do it?

I truly believe that the "rightness" of what we need to seek is in our hearts more than our actions. It's not a case of "do whatever you want to do", but an admission that any actions are futile when not done for God's purposes.

 

[crawfish]

The disagreement with this preacher was with him saying that certain things were sin, even though the bible does not say they are sin, like dancing for example. He said it was a sin and if you allow your child to go to their prom you are commiting sin, if you have friends who are not believers you are commiting sin, if you invite an unbeliever to your house other than for bible study you commit sin. It just seems he is making up what he believes is sin and expects his congregation to abide by what he calls sin and if they don't agree they are sinning.A group of men in the church are going along with him agreeing with him in his heresy.They are being very bold about it sticking right with this preacher and thy keep a close eye on the congregation, if one does something they don't agree with they bring that person before the congregation and tell what that person did, and has that person ask for forgiveness and prayer. There are many other things that have happened in this church that I'd run out of space mentioning them all. I've talked to the other members of the congregation, they say they don't agree with him and what he says isn't biblical but they won't do or say anything. I just really hate to see a church turn from God's laws and become a seat of satan. And the members stand idoly by and let it happen.

I completely agree. I saw a similar thing happen at my grandparents' small, rural church of Christ; in their case, the wealthy family in town pretty much controlled everything that happened there. They drove everybody away who wouldn't do things the way they wanted, and discouraged visitors from joining. I always hated attending it - there was absolutely no heart there.

But they did everything strictly "church of Christ" right.

 

[- DRA -]

The disagreement with this preacher was with him saying that certain things were sin, even though the bible does not say they are sin, like dancing for example. He said it was a sin and if you allow your child to go to their prom you are commiting sin, if you have friends who are not believers you are commiting sin, if you invite an unbeliever to your house other than for bible study you commit sin. It just seems he is making up what he believes is sin and expects his congregation to abide by what he calls sin and if they don't agree they are sinning.A group of men in the church are going along with him agreeing with him in his heresy.They are being very bold about it sticking right with this preacher and thy keep a close eye on the congregation, if one does something they don't agree with they bring that person before the congregation and tell what that person did, and has that person ask for forgiveness and prayer. There are many other things that have happened in this church that I'd run out of space mentioning them all. I've talked to the other members of the congregation, they say they don't agree with him and what he says isn't biblical but they won't do or say anything. I just really hate to see a church turn from God's laws and become a seat of satan. And the members stand idoly by and let it happen.

Personally, I believe the modern dance of today falls under the category of "laciviousness" (KJV) which is addressed in passages such as Mark 7:22, Galatians 5:19, Ephesians 4:19, & 1 Peter 4:3. However, I also believe there's a diplomatic way to handle the situation. Frankly, a lot of folks don't do a good job of teaching about morality nowadays. Without good, sound teaching, folks aren't going to be equipped to make good decisions.

As for the other things, I would like to see which passages the preacher and the other men think are being violated by association with those of the world. I suspect they may have overlooked 1 Cor. 5:9-11.

Shame on folks who let those like you describe "bully" others into submission.

 

[- DRA -]

Originally Posted by - DRA -

Concerning the comments that I put in red font, shouldn't God's people today try hard to do everything right (i.e. Luke 17:10)? Which things to you suggest it's okay to do wrong or not do at all?

It's a problem when you concentrate so much on figuring out the "right" way to do things that you forget why we're supposed to be doing them in the first place.

That sounds like a description of the church in Ephesus. They were diligently serving the Lord in many respects, but had "left their first love" (Rev. 2:4) I believe the remedy for that problem was to repent and put the Lord first. I don't think the remedy was to stop doing the other things that were right and in accordance to the Lord's will also, do you?

God's commands are not an arbitrary set of rules and regulations set up to test us; they are there for a very specific purpose. For instance, we are to take the Lord's Supper "in remembrance of Him" - if we take it without our minds set towards Him, does it matter how "right" we do it?

Hmmm. God "tested" Abraham (see Hebrews 11:17 - NKJV) by commanding him to offer Isaac. After Abraham obeyed (and God intervened), God said, "... For now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me" (Genesis 22:12).

Jesus taught that those who loved him would keep His commandments (John 14:15). Wouldn't that imply/infer that those who do not obey His commandments donot love Him?

For sure, the Lord's Supper is a time to focus on Jesus (i.e. 1 Cor. 11:17-34.

I truly believe that the "rightness" of what we need to seek is in our hearts more than our actions. It's not a case of "do whatever you want to do", but an admission that any actions are futile when not done for God's purposes.

I see a potential problem with this reasoning. Saul. He had a good conscience, even when persecuting Christians (i.e. Acts 23:1). However, he was still wrong.

I agree that we must do things "for God's purposes." BTW, what was God's purpose for baptism according to Acts 2:38 and 22:16?

Food for Thought:
Jesus said, "So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, 'We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do' " (Luke 17:10). What does the word "all" mean?

 

[- DRA -]

I completely agree. I saw a similar thing happen at my grandparents' small, rural church of Christ; in their case, the wealthy family in town pretty much controlled everything that happened there. They drove everybody away who wouldn't do things the way they wanted, and discouraged visitors from joining. I always hated attending it - there was absolutely no heart there.

But they did everything strictly "church of Christ" right.

Your description of the small, rural church reminded me of Diotrophes in 3rd. John.

Not sure I understand what "church of Christ right" is all about. It sounds as if you are harboring ill-will against the Lord's church. Although Diotrephes was wrong (as well as those who supported his decisions), I don't see that as a sound basis to undermine or discredit the church of Christ. What exactly would you have the church of Christ be like today? For instance, what should be the plan of salvation that it teaches? How should it be organized? How should it worship? Should it promote the unity that Eph. 4:1-6 teaches, or embrace denominationalism and the division it promotes. Would you have it bow down to a man (i.e. the Pope)? What exactly would you like to see God's people be and do? Accept any and all types of error (i.e. 2 John 9-11, Romans 16:17-18)? Would you have them receive others who haven't obeyed the gospel (i.e. Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38) as brothers and sisters in Christ - even though they aren't? Would that make you happy?

 

[DerSchweik]

Such instances of usurpation of power by a pulpit minister or any leader for that matter are not confined to the churches of Christ. Unfortunate as they are, we should not assume that they are either the result of the particular church's doctrine or the doctrine of the church as a whole.

In matters of authority, the Bible must be our guide, not some person's interpretation of it or their position within the church.

I think we can all find such instances of abuse in any church, regardless of their "name." It must be up to the individual members of a congregation to correct such abuses as they occur, and in accord with biblical direction.

Moreover, I believe this is critical for all Christians, that we strive to be fully versed in His word and in His will that we not be taken in by any one person's position, charisma, or doctrinal stances where they are contrary to His word.