FLAT EARTH.

[Open Heart]

The biblical genealogies imply an age of Earth ~6000 years, and as I believe the scriptures are infallible, I hold to this view. If Earth is flat, the stars are fairly close and small, so light from the stars would be visible on Earth the same day the stars were made. I find God does not give evidence that would deceive us, hence my stand the Earth is flat.

Your post is self contradictory.

 

[Ken Rank]

The biblical genealogies imply an age of Earth ~6000 years, and as I believe the scriptures are infallible, I hold to this view. If Earth is flat, the stars are fairly close and small, so light from the stars would be visible on Earth the same day the stars were made. I find God does not give evidence that would deceive us, hence my stand the Earth is flat.

Open Heart said your post contradicts... I won't say that because I understand why you arrived at that and I am not looking for conflict, however...

We KNOW without question that a tree will develop a ring for every year. So, when God created trees already bearing fruit as the text suggests, then He created trees that would have had to have been at least a few years old the SECOND He created them. If you cut down a tree the second after He said, "Let there be" the tree would have had multiple rings. That isn't deception, that was creating ready to use.

 

[Open Heart]

Open Heart said your post contradicts... I won't say that because I understand why you arrived at that and I am not looking for conflict, however...

We KNOW without question that a tree will develop a ring for every year. So, when God created trees already bearing fruit as the text suggests, then He created trees that would have had to have been at least a few years old the SECOND He created them. If you cut down a tree the second after He said, "Let there be" the tree would have had multiple rings. That isn't deception, that was creating ready to use.

Why do you think he created adult trees?

 

[Ken Rank]

Why do you think he created adult trees?

Gen 1:11 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so.

In verse 29 he says to Adam that this will be for food for you. Since a sapling or seed is not food at that point, then the tree created by God would have had the appearance of age.

 

[Joshua_5]

To borrow the album title from Pink Floyd, there is such a thing as the "Dark Side of the Moon", because the moon doesn't produce it's own light. It reflects the light of the sun.

You make these claims that the moon produces its own light. Ok. It's up to you to prove it. You also claim that moonlight cools? Provide me with a peer-reviewed research paper that discusses that. I've already Googled it, nothing came up. And some random flat earther conspiracy theorist Youtube video isn't proof.

And if science isn't a matter of majority opinion, well, I guess our understanding of germ theory is wrong too.

It can be done in a simple backyard experiment. Take two vials of water, and a thermometer. Shield one from the moon, and use a magnifying glass to magnify moonlight into the other, keeping other variables the same. The shielded water will become cooler after 10 - 20 minutes (by more than a degree Celcius in my case, but this will depend on the experimental variables). I've performed the experiment myself, and its been done on Youtube countless times.

As I have stated before, science is not about majority opinion (or peer review, which is essentially the same thing).

 

[Joshua_5]

I don't trust his math, he is an opportunist who defies his own claims by flying all over the world leaving his huge stinky footprint all over the place when he could use Skype. Plus, after claims that the oceans will rise, he bought himself a nice beach house when the housing market busted.

You linked him to believing in a Flat Earth, when its the Globe Earth (and fake climate science) he peddles.

"The earth curves, we can see it, test it, and calculate it and only Al Gore's fuzzy math comes away with anything less than a globe."

He's in your camp, whether you like it or not.

 

[Joshua_5]

Your post is self contradictory.

It is not. If you care to elaborate which claims you believe are self contradictory, I will demonstrate that it is your own preconceived notions that are causing you to come to such an erroneous conclusion.

 

[Joshua_5]

Open Heart said your post contradicts... I won't say that because I understand why you arrived at that and I am not looking for conflict, however...

We KNOW without question that a tree will develop a ring for every year. So, when God created trees already bearing fruit as the text suggests, then He created trees that would have had to have been at least a few years old the SECOND He created them. If you cut down a tree the second after He said, "Let there be" the tree would have had multiple rings. That isn't deception, that was creating ready to use.

Exactly. And its one's own preconceived (and incorrect) notions that the number of rings a tree has determines the age of the tree, that causes one to come to the incorrect age of the tree. God says nothing about relating the rings of a tree to its age.

 

[Ken Rank]

You linked him to believing in a Flat Earth, when its the Globe Earth (and fake climate science) he peddles.

"The earth curves, we can see it, test it, and calculate it and only Al Gore's fuzzy math comes away with anything less than a globe."

He's in your camp, whether you like it or not.

What I meant by using his name... during one of the debates with Bush, Gore had been making some wild global warming claims using some math that really didn't add up. Bush said that Gore was "using fuzzy math" to substantiate his claims. So I wasn't claiming Gore believes in a flat earth, I was saying one must use similar fuzzy math to make this work.

We'll catch up another time. This topic really is not any interest to me. I don't have a doubt at all in terms of the shape of the earth. Been looking at planets and stars for years out of some very large telescopes, this is a non-issue to me. If it turns out the earth is flat I will only shrug my shoulders at best seeing my calling does not include correcting doctrine that does not have an effect on one's walk with God. If the world is round or flat, if there is a pre-trib rapture, end-trib rapture... or a horizontal rapture leading to a second exodus... so what? We still have to discern his will for our daily walk and be about that which He calls us to do. Peace!

 

[Ken Rank]

Exactly. And its one's own preconceived (and incorrect) notions that the number of rings a tree has determines the age of the tree, that causes one to come to the incorrect age of the tree. God says nothing about relating the rings of a tree to its age.

It isn't incorrect.... I am 50 years old, I have watched a tree sprout, allowed it to grow to a certain age, cut it down and counted the rings. It isn't incorrect, it is simply that God created things with the appearance of age. When Adam was created and was 1 second old, he looked like a MAN not a baby in need of the breast. He had the appearance of age.

 

[Ken Rank]

As I have stated before, science is not about majority opinion (or peer review, which is essentially the same thing).

The point of peer review (which is NOT the same as majority opinion) is that we often get different results from our experiments. Just because you got a certain result does not mean that universally everyone else will get the same result. You might still be correct, just saying, you might not be. And your work gains weight, and credit, when others with skills in that discipline recreate your experiment and get the same results.

Peace.
Ken

 

[GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta]

A spherical earth was proven long before Darwin's Origen of the Species. Evolution doesn't destroy belief in Creation or God. The majority of Evolutionists are theistic.

The ball Earth was never proven. It was based upon nothing more than assumptions and guesses with what they had at the time. That said, there were plenty of people who proved otherwise, but of whom history has chosen to ignore.

 

[Open Heart]

Gen 1:11 Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth"; and it was so.

In verse 29 he says to Adam that this will be for food for you. Since a sapling or seed is not food at that point, then the tree created by God would have had the appearance of age.

1. Let the earth BRING FORTH... IOW it did not begin with adult plants. So going by a historical reading of Genesis 1, adult tree were not suddenly created with lying tree rings.
2. Adam was created AFTER plants.
3. These stories are teaching myths, not history. Plants evolved from earlier life forms. God created plants to the extent that he directed their evolution. Thus, there were never any sudden adult plants. The first plants moss-like and liverworts, having evolved from green algae, and as you know, do not grow from seeds. After that came ferns, which grow from spores, not seeds. Obviously seeds cam much later in plant evolution. All directed by the Creator.

 

[Open Heart]

It is not. If you care to elaborate which claims you believe are self contradictory, I will demonstrate that it is your own preconceived notions that are causing you to come to such an erroneous conclusion.

You said:

If Earth is flat, the stars are fairly close and small, so light from the stars would be visible on Earth the same day the stars were made. I find God does not give evidence that would deceive us, hence my stand the Earth is flat.

The EVIDENCE that God gives indicates that stars are a gazillion light years away (they measure the parallax). Hence your statement that the evidence that the evidence would not deceive us and therefore you believe the stars are small and close, is self contradictory.

 

[Open Heart]

The ball Earth was never proven.

Oh of course it has. Your "proofs" for a flat earth are absurd.

These proofs (this list is by no means exhaustive) have been mentioned here in this thread, but in case you want to review them all in one place:
Top10 Proofs the Earth is not Flat
http://www.smarterthanthat.com/astronomy/top-10-ways-to-know-the-earth-is-not-flat/

1. During a lunar eclipse, the shadow of the earth on the moon is circular, and it requires the sun to be behind the earth.

2 and 3. The sailor up in the crows nest can spot land before those down in the deck because he can see farther over the edge of the horizon, and the mast of a ship is seen from the shore AFTER the ship has disappeared beyond the horizon.

4. Varying star constellations.

5. Two stick upright in the ground produce different shadows rather than the same shadow.

6. a. Planes can travel far in ANY direction and not fall off.
b. Riding in a plane, one can see the curvature of the horizon.

7. We know from telescope use that other planets are spherical. It would be absurd to assume that our own planet were any different.

8. "The sun and flat/spherical Earth: If the sun was a “spotlight” (very directionally located so that light only shines on a specific location) and the world was flat, we would have seen the sun even if it didn’t shine on top of us (as you can see in the drawing below). The same way you can see the light coming out of a spotlight on a stage in the theater, even though you – the crowd – are in the dark. The only way to create two distinctly separate timezones, where there is complete darkness in one while there’s light in the other, is if the world is spherical."

9. Center of Gravity. If the earth were flat, gravity would be pulling you towards the center of the plane, NOT straight down. The fact that we are pulled straight down speaks to a sphere.

10. Pictures from space, and manned missions into space.

Honorabled mentions:

* Biruni calculated the circumference of the earth from triangulation.

* The Bedford Level Experiment was done to prove that the Earth was FLAT. It was repeated numerous times, proving every time that the earth was a sphere.

 

[mmksparbud]

1. Let the earth BRING FORTH... IOW it did not begin with adult plants. So going by a historical reading of Genesis 1, adult tree were not suddenly created with lying tree rings.
2. Adam was created AFTER plants.
3. These stories are teaching myths, not history. Plants evolved from earlier life forms. God created plants to the extent that he directed their evolution. Thus, there were never any sudden adult plants. The first plants moss-like and liverworts, having evolved from green algae, and as you know, do not grow from seeds. After that came ferns, which grow from spores, not seeds. Obviously seeds cam much later in plant evolution. All directed by the Creator.

I do not believe in a flat earth--nor in evolution---
Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

And it was so---when God commands, it is done. If He says something will happen in 400 years, it will be 400 years, if He says in 7 years, it is 7 years. when He says it--it happens, that is the power of God--When He commanded Lazarus to come forth---Lazarus came forth, right then and there---not years later. When He commanded the sea to be still---that is what happened. It was an evening and a morning--day 3. According to the rotation if the earth. That is what determines a day.
However, creation week is not the topic. The earth is not stationary, it rotates, that is what gives us the days--not the sun.

 

[Ken Rank]

1. Let the earth BRING FORTH... IOW it did not begin with adult plants. So going by a historical reading of Genesis 1, adult tree were not suddenly created with lying tree rings.
2. Adam was created AFTER plants.
3. These stories are teaching myths, not history. Plants evolved from earlier life forms. God created plants to the extent that he directed their evolution. Thus, there were never any sudden adult plants. The first plants moss-like and liverworts, having evolved from green algae, and as you know, do not grow from seeds. After that came ferns, which grow from spores, not seeds. Obviously seeds cam much later in plant evolution. All directed by the Creator.

I think it is literal. You won't convince me otherwise so don't waste your time. Not being sarcastic sis, just being honest so we can save each other time. Blessings.

 

[Open Heart]

I think it is literal. You won't convince me otherwise so don't waste your time. Not being sarcastic sis, just being honest so we can save each other time. Blessings.

And as I said, if you read Genesis 1 as literal history, the earth brought forth. Not trees suddenly appeared full grown.

 

[Ken Rank]

And as I said, if you read Genesis 1 as literal history, the earth brought forth. Not trees suddenly appeared full grown.

God did not nurse Adam, he needed food from the day he was created. Therefore, Adam didn't fast for a couple of years for the fruit to come forth, or even months for an vegetables to grow... he had to eat right away which means food had to be at his disposal right away.

Blessings.
Ken

 

[Open Heart]

God did not nurse Adam, he needed food from the day he was created. Therefore, Adam didn't fast for a couple of years for the fruit to come forth, or even months for an vegetables to grow... he had to eat right away which means food had to be at his disposal right away.

Blessings.
Ken

Adam was made AFTER plants. Plants existed long enough to be "brought forth from the earth."