FLAT EARTH.

[Ken Rank]

I'm aware of it's slight curve.
But 7 inches of variance in the course of a mile is generally considered flat.
It's no surprise that scripture suggests a flat surface since virtually 100%
of people can't create a flatter surface than gravity provides.

What Scripture? I am not trying to be divisive, I will fairly weigh it out. What Scripture indicates a flat earth?

Until then, here is the problem I have. We have millions of pilots and millions of video cameras. If you leave Winchester, KY and begin to fly east eventually you would arrive from the west back to the point of origin. With cameras, we can put together a 3D version of that trip and the earth doesn't end up flat. I really don't understand why in 2016, after so many explorers expected a flat earth and found it not to be so, are we returning to this. I appreciate the idea of proving all things and questioning all things, but the premise of a flat earth begins with a bitter sect of the faith who attribute evil intent to those before them without having applied reasonable procedure to arrive at their conclusions.

 

[Ken Rank]

And... why do so many get so worked up over this topic? (Not saying you are, just speaking in general) We are united through Christ's work and most of what we think is "vital" beyond that, probably isn't as important as we think it is. We have 40,000 denominations and sects over often insane reasons... and to divide over a flat or round earth is like dividing over a pre-trib or end-trib rapture, how to pronounce certain words or names, or whether or not a biblical month begins with the sighted sliver or conjunction.

Being of "one mind and one accord" is not us all thinking, acting, and looking alike... it is us being "one in function" despite the areas we might not see eye to eye in.

Blessings.
Ken

 

[SkyWriting]

What Scripture? I am not trying to be divisive, I will fairly weigh it out. What Scripture indicates a flat earth?

Until then, here is the problem I have. We have millions of pilots and millions of video cameras. If you leave Winchester, KY and begin to fly east eventually you would arrive from the west back to the point of origin. With cameras, we can put together a 3D version of that trip and the earth doesn't end up flat. I really don't understand why in 2016, after so many explorers expected a flat earth and found it not to be so, are we returning to this. I appreciate the idea of proving all things and questioning all things, but the premise of a flat earth begins with a bitter sect of the faith who attribute evil intent to those before them without having applied reasonable procedure to arrive at their conclusions.

Many people do not have access to jets.....or electricity. So "flat" is correct enough for most people.
One-Quarter of World's Population Lacks Electricity

Job 9:
6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit {Hebrew: "chug"} of heaven.
Job 22:14 (HCSB) Clouds veil Him so that He cannot see, as He walks on the circle of the sky.
Job 22:14 (ASV) Thick clouds are a covering to him, so that he seeth not; And he walketh on the vault of heaven.

Job 26:
7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.
9 He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.
10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.
12 He divideth the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the proud.
13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

- See more at: http://www.testingtheglobe.com/bible.html#sthash.KiKvdle9.dpuf

 

[Ken Rank]

Many people do not have access to jets.....or electricity. So "flat" is correct enough for most people.
One-Quarter of World's Population Lacks Electricity

Job 9:
6 Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
7 Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit {Hebrew: "chug"} of heaven.
Job 22:14 (HCSB) Clouds veil Him so that He cannot see, as He walks on the circle of the sky.
Job 22:14 (ASV) Thick clouds are a covering to him, so that he seeth not; And he walketh on the vault of heaven.

Job 26:
7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them.
9 He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it.
10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.
12 He divideth the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the proud.
13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

Job 37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

- See more at: http://www.testingtheglobe.com/bible.html#sthash.KiKvdle9.dpuf

I will get back to you, tomorrow probably. Your first point is not relevant to the discussion however. I doesn't matter how many people have flown or have electricity... the fact that millions have and millions of hours of video have been taken is more than enough evidence in that regard. Will look at the verses though, and go from there.

Incidentally, I have read many things Skiba has written in the past. May I ask... do YOU read Hebrew or just rely on others?

 

[SkyWriting]

And... why do so many get so worked up over this topic? (Not saying you are, just speaking in general) We are united through Christ's work and most of what we think is "vital" beyond that, probably isn't as important as we think it is. We have 40,000 denominations and sects over often insane reasons... and to divide over a flat or round earth is like dividing over a pre-trib or end-trib rapture, how to pronounce certain words or names, or whether or not a biblical month begins with the sighted sliver or conjunction.
Being of "one mind and one accord" is not us all thinking, acting, and looking alike... it is us being "one in function" despite the areas we might not see eye to eye in.

Blessings.
Ken

The scriptures offer many insights, and some are taught the scriptures
are Gods Words. So many feel that they are being tested by non-literal
explanations. Some always feel this way, and some open up more over
time to alternate views. Some don't.

 

[SkyWriting]

It doesn't matter how many people have flown or have electricity...

You brought it up. I will decide how to respond.

 

[Ken Rank]

You brought it up. I will decide how to respond.

An attitude? Can we have a discussion without it? Isn't there enough division, why talk in ways that promote more? I simply pointed out a fact... It doesn't matter if 5 billion out of over 7 billion are without electricity and have never flown... millions have and millions of hours of earth have been filmed.

 

[Open Heart]

Ball Earth was necessary to introduce evolution. Evolution necessary to destroy belief in creation/God.

A spherical earth was proven long before Darwin's Origen of the Species. Evolution doesn't destroy belief in Creation or God. The majority of Evolutionists are theistic.

 

[Open Heart]

If they're gazillions of light years away, how can we still see them, given God created Heaven and Earth only ~6000 years ago?

God did not make the Earth only 6000 years ago, and the time it takes for starlight to reach us is one of the evidences against that theory. Unless you believe God created the world with the starlight already having traveled, in which case God deliberately left evidence that would deceive us.

 

[LordDuncanBurneWilke]

I bet there is no pilots or sea captains that are flat 'earthers'.

 

[Joshua_5]

What Scripture? I am not trying to be divisive, I will fairly weigh it out. What Scripture indicates a flat earth?

Until then, here is the problem I have. We have millions of pilots and millions of video cameras. If you leave Winchester, KY and begin to fly east eventually you would arrive from the west back to the point of origin. With cameras, we can put together a 3D version of that trip and the earth doesn't end up flat. I really don't understand why in 2016, after so many explorers expected a flat earth and found it not to be so, are we returning to this. I appreciate the idea of proving all things and questioning all things, but the premise of a flat earth begins with a bitter sect of the faith who attribute evil intent to those before them without having applied reasonable procedure to arrive at their conclusions.

Imagine Earth as a plate, East as counterclockwise on the plate, and West as clockwise. North is the centre of the plate, and South is the outer edge (Antarctica). The millions of videos you'd record would show that pilots do not need to continually direct the nose of their plane downward (which they would need to do to prevent them heading off into space, were the Earth a ball). No one argues that one can't get to the East the long way by going West. But no one has circumnavigated South to North, as its not possible.

 

[Joshua_5]

God did not make the Earth only 6000 years ago, and the time it takes for starlight to reach us is one of the evidences against that theory. Unless you believe God created the world with the starlight already having traveled, in which case God deliberately left evidence that would deceive us.

The biblical genealogies imply an age of Earth ~6000 years, and as I believe the scriptures are infallible, I hold to this view. If Earth is flat, the stars are fairly close and small, so light from the stars would be visible on Earth the same day the stars were made. I find God does not give evidence that would deceive us, hence my stand the Earth is flat.

 

[Joshua_5]

If a boat leaves the shore headed to sea with a helicopter 100' above it... and they travel at the same speed in the same direction the result will be this:

Rounding off... within about 4 miles (depending on your height, wave height, etc.) the boat will have disappeared by the helicopter can still be seen, albeit closer to the water. If the earth was flat and the helicopter could be seen, so would the boat be seen. But that isn't what happens thus the earth is not flat.

The fact that a telescope will bring the boat back into view (if the waves are flat) invalidates your proof, unless you believe that light travels in curved paths.

 

[Ken Rank]

Imagine Earth as a plate, East as counterclockwise on the plate, and West as clockwise. North is the centre of the plate, and South is the outer edge (Antarctica). The millions of videos you'd record would show that pilots do not need to continually direct the nose of their plane downward (which they would need to do to prevent them heading off into space, were the Earth a ball). No one argues that one can't get to the East the long way by going West. But no one has circumnavigated South to North, as its not possible.

None of the verses shared with me yesterday sway me and the person whose website was cited is a conspiracy nut who ascribes evil to anything that doesn't agree with him. There are so many testable methods that prove a globe... I gave an example of one and it can be backed with a second independent test. But there are so many more... I just don't get it. I guess in the last days we will be blown around by all winds of doctrine. I don't mean that in a mean way... but I am aware of so many new doctrine being taught as either new godly revelation or the correction of some liar from our past who led us astray. The earth curves, we can see it, test it, and calculate it and only Al Gore's fuzzy math comes away with anything less than a globe.

 

[Ken Rank]

The fact that a telescope will bring the boat back into view (if the waves are flat) invalidates your proof, unless you believe that light travels in curved paths.

Not at all, the mirror is bending the light... you can add more distance with your method but it will still disappear. That point you just made is your best point and it isn't the answer you think it is.

 

[Joshua_5]

Not just what I've been taught. The moon does *not* produce its own light. If if did, as other posters have pointed out, we wouldn't see the different phases of the moon. All of that is due to the amount of light that is reflected off of it from the sun.

Again, this is a claim without proof. You are just reciting what you have been taught. How do the phases of the moon prove it is reflecting sunlight? This doesn't prove your theory, it just conveniently fits it, on some occasions. What disproves your adopted theory is that sunlight warms, moonlight cools. If moonlight was reflected sunlight, moonlight would warm. It does not.

You can make silly claims like the source of the light isn't the same, but you'd be wrong.

That's actually a scientific claim. Testable and repeatable.

And yes, it is 1 light and a reflection. Always has been, just like the sun is a star, despite your claims to the contrary.

And back to the reciting. Science is not a matter of majority opinion.

 

[Joshua_5]

None of the verses shared with me yesterday sway me and the person whose website was cited is a conspiracy nut who ascribes evil to anything that doesn't agree with him. There are so many testable methods that prove a globe... I gave an example of one and it can be backed with a second independent test. But there are so many more... I just don't get it. I guess in the last days we will be blown around by all winds of doctrine. I don't mean that in a mean way... but I am aware of so many new doctrine being taught as either new godly revelation or the correction of some liar from our past who led us astray. The earth curves, we can see it, test it, and calculate it and only Al Gore's fuzzy math comes away with anything less than a globe.

Al Gore believes the Earth to be a ball - "global warming". If you don't trust his math, you're on the wrong side of the fence.

 

[Jadis40]

Again, this is a claim without proof. You are just reciting what you have been taught. How do the phases of the moon prove it is reflecting sunlight? This doesn't prove your theory, it just conveniently fits it, on some occasions. What disproves your adopted theory is that sunlight warms, moonlight cools. If moonlight was reflected sunlight, moonlight would warm. It does not.

That's actually a scientific claim. Testable and repeatable.

And back to the reciting. Science is not a matter of majority opinion.

To borrow the album title from Pink Floyd, there is such a thing as the "Dark Side of the Moon", because the moon doesn't produce it's own light. It reflects the light of the sun.

You make these claims that the moon produces its own light. Ok. It's up to you to prove it. You also claim that moonlight cools? Provide me with a peer-reviewed research paper that discusses that. I've already Googled it, nothing came up. And some random flat earther conspiracy theorist Youtube video isn't proof.

And if science isn't a matter of majority opinion, well, I guess our understanding of germ theory is wrong too.

 

[Ken Rank]

Al Gore believes the Earth to be a ball - "global warming". If you don't trust his math, you're on the wrong side of the fence.

I don't trust his math, he is an opportunist who defies his own claims by flying all over the world leaving his huge stinky footprint all over the place when he could use Skype. Plus, after claims that the oceans will rise, he bought himself a nice beach house when the housing market busted.

 

[Ken Rank]

Joshua, I don't mind what you believe, perhaps you are correct. I don't think so, I think in order to have a flat earth we have to have perfect collusion from 10's of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people. I watch satellites every night, seen them through telescopes, have met men of have flown at the edge of space and they claim a round earth and many are devout Christians. Are they blind? Lying despite their faith? No... look, here is a picture taken from the Concord. Notice the edge of only ONE continent. And... notice the gradual curving. Since that is only 1 continent, that gradual grade is already steeper than others have claimed on here. The earth is not flat.