Five myths about Calvinism

Hammster

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4. CALVINISM TEACHES THAT MEN ARE
MERELY ROBOTS

Calvinists believes in man's will. Man always chooses what he most desires at the moment of choice. You are choosing now to read this sentence when there are literally billions of other sentences out there waiting to be read. Why do you read this sentence right now?

The answer is because at this very moment, this is your strongest desire.

Reformation Theology: Five Big Myths About Calvinism
 

twin1954

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There is one things that, as a Calvinist, I would take issue with. Well there is more than one but they are not all important. The one thing is his explanation of election as simply ensuring that some are saved. Election is about God's love. He chose those whom He loved and because He loved them. Love is the fountain from which election springs not sovereignty.

Certainly He is sovereign and has the authority and right to do whatever He wills with His own but election isn't derived from His sovereignty but from His infinite love. We should never speak of sovereign election but of sovereign electing love.
 
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Hammster

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I won't defend the author as I don't know all of his views. However, it is possible that it was an incomplete answer as he was only giving short replies.

But I agree with your point.
 
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twin1954

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I won't defend the author as I don't know all of his views. However, it is possible that it was an incomplete answer as he was only giving short replies.

But I agree with your point.
I don't know the author either and there is no need to defend him. He does an adequate job as far as his topic goes in a short answer format. Though I think we ought to always be very careful in how we phrase things. It has been my experience that people grasp on to one thing you say often and start running with it. That usually leads to something entirely different than what you had intended.


Now if I could only live up to my own rule. :doh:
 
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Awaken4Christ

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Before we are regenerated we are robots...of satan...robots of sin. Scripture calls it being a slave to sin. But if Christ rewrites the hard drive of you heart you are free indeed!

:)
I believe we are a slave to sin before conversion, but its because we follow the desires of our own heart. A robot isn't compelled to do something, it just does it. Us, on the other hand, chase after the corrupt desires in our own heart. Humans have a 100 percent failure rate without God. And even when we are born again, we still fight the old self.

I believe there is free will, but humans always choose to sin.

Isiah 10:12-16

"12 When the Lord has finished all his work on Mount Zion and on Jerusalem, he[a] will punish the speech of the arrogant heart of the king of Assyria and the boastful look in his eyes. 13 For he says:
“By the strength of my hand I have done it,
and by my wisdom, for I have understanding;
I remove the boundaries of peoples,
and plunder their treasures;
like a bull I bring down those who sit on thrones.
14 My hand has found like a nest
the wealth of the peoples;
and as one gathers eggs that have been forsaken,
so I have gathered all the earth;
and there was none that moved a wing
or opened the mouth or chirped.”

15 Shall the axe boast over him who hews with it,
or the saw magnify itself against him who wields it?
As if a rod should wield him who lifts it,
or as if a staff should lift him who is not wood!
16 Therefore the Lord God of hosts
will send wasting sickness among his stout warriors,
and under his glory a burning will be kindled,
like the burning of fire."

Notice that the arrogant heart of the Assyrian King is his own. It doesn't say God gave him this arrogant heart, it merely says it is the Kings. Amazing as it may be humans get exactly what they want and yet those actions play out exactly and neatly in the confines of God's Will. "Shall the axe boast over him that hews it?". Amazing how God can let man follow the wicked desires in his heart and yet be sovereign over the entirety of creation.
 
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now faith

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As much as the Gosple is Preached,and the Word of God is taught only to fall on
Deaf ears, I am looking at the many times Christ stated he who hath a ear let him hear.

The flip side is obviously that some will not hear.

Are they predestined to on their own accord to fall?

I am beginning to think so.
 
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Awaken4Christ said:
A robot isn't compelled to do something, it just does it. Us, on the other hand, chase after the corrupt desires in our own heart.
It is important to note that a ROBOT is ONLY acting by the control of a specific person, and whomever that specific person allows to utilize that control.

If a robot SEEMS to act on his own, it is merely that he was programmed to do that by the person in control. I would likely put the analogy a different way, but really will not argue with the point that we, as unregenerate sinners, are controlled by another. That would TYPICALLY be Satan, the god of this world, and the father of the unrighteous.

We, as unregenerate sinners, are PROGRAMMED via the fallen nature to do the will of that "father," and the will of our own ego that is so easily manipulated by that "father."
John 8
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

II Timothy 2
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
This is why I would not argue against the point of the unregenerate being robots of Satan. Too much has been stated by the Apostles that make it a valid analogy. Taking the whole idea apart, we would find certain flaws in this, as with any human thinking on spiritual matters. It is a good way to see this, and anyone wishing to have true freedom and liberty must first gain freedom from that slavery.
Romans 6
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 6
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
A slave is a better comparison, but the robot has a specific meaning that could be applicable to the discussion.
 
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twin1954

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It is important to note that a ROBOT is ONLY acting by the control of a specific person, and whomever that specific person allows to utilize that control.

If a robot SEEMS to act on his own, it is merely that he was programmed to do that by the person in control. I would likely put the analogy a different way, but really will not argue with the point that we, as unregenerate sinners, are controlled by another. That would TYPICALLY be Satan, the god of this world, and the father of the unrighteous.

We, as unregenerate sinners, are PROGRAMMED via the fallen nature to do the will of that "father," and the will of our own ego that is so easily manipulated by that "father."
John 8
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

II Timothy 2
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
This is why I would not argue against the point of the unregenerate being robots of Satan. Too much has been stated by the Apostles that make it a valid analogy. Taking the whole idea apart, we would find certain flaws in this, as with any human thinking on spiritual matters. It is a good way to see this, and anyone wishing to have true freedom and liberty must first gain freedom from that slavery.
Romans 6
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 6
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
A slave is a better comparison, but the robot has a specific meaning that could be applicable to the discussion.
The robot analogy still doesn't work even for the unregenerate. It implies that we are not responsible for our sin and puts the blame on Satan. Flip Wilson's "the Devil made me do it".

The fact is that Satan deceived Eve but not Adam. 1Tim. 2:14 Adam knew what he was doing and did it anyway. Our sin is our fault and we cannot do as Adam did and try to place the blame on the woman and then on God Himself. (Gen 3:12) And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

Satan is not a robot master any more than God is. He is the father of lies and a murderer from the beginning for sure but he has no control other than to deceive with his subtle lies and appeals to our base natures.

We are slaves to our natures but not robots. We do exactly as our nature dictates because it is corrupt and full of sin and evil. Our heart is the problem and all our sin comes from a depraved and deceitful heart.

(Jer 17:9) The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

(Jer 17:10) I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.


(Mat 15:18) But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

(Mat 15:19) For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

(Mat 15:20) These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
 
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... We are slaves to our natures but not robots. We do exactly as our nature dictates because it is corrupt and full of sin and evil. Our heart is the problem and all our sin comes from a depraved and deceitful heart...
Very well stated.
 
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now faith

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The robot analogy still doesn't work even for the unregenerate. It implies that we are not responsible for our sin and puts the blame on Satan. Flip Wilson's "the Devil made me do it".

The fact is that Satan deceived Eve but not Adam. 1Tim. 2:14 Adam knew what he was doing and did it anyway. Our sin is our fault and we cannot do as Adam did and try to place the blame on the woman and then on God Himself. (Gen 3:12) And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

Satan is not a robot master any more than God is. He is the father of lies and a murderer from the beginning for sure but he has no control other than to deceive with his subtle lies and appeals to our base natures.

We are slaves to our natures but not robots. We do exactly as our nature dictates because it is corrupt and full of sin and evil. Our heart is the problem and all our sin comes from a depraved and deceitful heart.

(Jer 17:9) The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

(Jer 17:10) I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.


(Mat 15:18) But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

(Mat 15:19) For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

(Mat 15:20) These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Our Spirit upon salvation needs no further regeneration, our flesh or earthly mind must be sanctified but our Spirit is forever in accord with God.



Galatians 5:17King James Version (KJV)

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


What is troubling with our fellow Christians and the World is God will trust our Spirit to guide our lives in all aspects.

Man kind will criticize and accuse our actions without knowing our intentions.
 
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twin1954

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Our Spirit upon salvation needs no further regeneration, our flesh or earthly mind must be sanctified but our Spirit is forever in accord with God.
Actually the flesh cannot and will not be sanctified. It remains just as it was before regeneration. The flesh does not need to be taken to the hospital of religion to be cured but to the cross to be crucified. We do not sanctify the flesh we crucify it.
(Gal 2:20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.



Galatians 5:17King James Version (KJV)

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.


What is troubling with our fellow Christians and the World is God will trust our Spirit to guide our lives in all aspects.

Man kind will criticize and accuse our actions without knowing our intentions.
True.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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There is one things that, as a Calvinist, I would take issue with. Well there is more than one but they are not all important. The one thing is his explanation of election as simply ensuring that some are saved. Election is about God's love. He chose those whom He loved and because He loved them. Love is the fountain from which election springs not sovereignty.

Certainly He is sovereign and has the authority and right to do whatever He wills with His own but election isn't derived from His sovereignty but from His infinite love. We should never speak of sovereign election but of sovereign electing love.

Calvin was seriously mistaken in what he taught, but all five of his points that are now known as the ‘Five Points of Calvinism’ were very solidly deduced from his premise that God is absolutely sovereign. The problem, of course, was that his premise was wrong—on the very day that God created Adam, God surrendered to man much of His sovereignty, an act that He very greatly regretted soon afterward,* but He did not reclaim His sovereignty.

The belief that God “chose those whom He loved and because He loved them” not only has no Biblical support of any kind, it is expressly taught against in both the Old and the New Testaments. It is an extremely serious false doctrine, but since it is not a myth of Calvinism, it is off topic and I will not comment in this thread any further on the doctrine.

* Genesis 6:5. The Lord saw that the wickedness of humankind was great in the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually.
6. And the Lord was sorry that he had made humankind on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. (NRSV)
 
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Awaken4Christ

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"Genesis 6:5. The Lord saw that the wickedness of humankind was great in the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually.
6. And the Lord was sorry that he had made humankind on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart."

Wait a second, that's just one verse , lets check out some others.

Proverbs 20:24 A man’s steps are from the LORD; how then can man understand his way?

Psalms 139:16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

Eph 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will.

We have to be careful not to just quote verses to support what we believe. It helps to mention verses that seem to go against our claim and explain why they actually don't. How do you deal with all the verses that support predestination? Or all the verses that show God is sovereign over his creation?
 
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Skala

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Calvin was seriously mistaken in what he taught,

How do you know what Calvin taught? Have you read his Institutes or something?

If so, you've read more of Calvin than myself and most other Calvinists here.

but all five of his points that are now known as the ‘Five Points of Calvinism’ were very solidly deduced from his premise that God is absolutely sovereign.

That's the Bible's premise.

The problem, of course, was that his premise was wrong—on the very day that God created Adam, God surrendered to man much of His sovereignty
,

I think you've read more of Calvin than you have the Bible, because the Bible plainly teaches that God is sovereign.

an act that He very greatly regretted soon afterward,* but He did not reclaim His sovereignty.

Known unto God are all his works from the foundation of the world.

The belief that God “chose those whom He loved and because He loved them” not only has no Biblical support of any kind, it is expressly taught against in both the Old and the New Testaments.

He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world..in love he predestined us for adoption as sons. (Eph 1)

Someone is wrong and it ain't the Bible.

It is an extremely serious false doctrine, but since it is not a myth of Calvinism, it is off topic and I will not comment in this thread any further on the doctrine.

The Bible is never false doctrine.
 
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