Fired Teacher, Unwed And Pregnant, Sues Catholic School

MichaelFJF

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Diane_Windsor said:
I see that my point obviously went over your head. When a parochial school fires a pregnant teacher who has no income then they are simply adding the pressure on her to have an abortion. How is that being loving? Would Jesus pressure a woman to have an abortion? Or would He forgive her for making a mistake and support her?
Nothing went over my head. Feigning superiority won't win the debate. Losing her job is the direct consequence of breaking the rules, period. Let's just forgive everybody - all the time - no consequences ever. Happy?
This firing sends the message that the RCC (yes, parochial schools do represent the RCC) does not care about the words that Christ spoke about love and that it only cares about rules.
This firing sends the message that the school has standards.
What if today another single teacher at that school finds herself to be pregnant-she is more likely to have an abortion now than face termination.
Finds herself pregnant?!?!?!? Exactly how do you find yourself pregnant? Oops - how'd that happen? I'm pregnant! How about if this "other single teacher" just follows the rules?
Actions speak louder than words. Nice way for them to shoot themselves in the foot. I'm thankful that I'm not part of that religion.

Again with the slap at the religion that actually expects people to live in a moral way. Hmmmmm.
And? I like learning about other religions.
And have you learned that sometimes there are consequences to your actions? Or would you like a free pass all the time?
 
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Diane_Windsor

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Letalis said:
Oh really, they pressured her to have an abortion? How exactly did they do that?

Think about it. You have no income and you are soon to give birth to a little baby that you are responsible for. Do you know how much infants costs? You have medical fees, you need to buy diapers, formula, bottles, clothes, baby wipes, etc., etc. Do you know how much money all of this costs? A person needs income to pay for these new baby things along with the electricity, water, utility, etc. bills that come in every month. There are millions of pregnant women around the world that will have an abortion under these circumstances.

If you don't understand how having no income puts pressure upon women to have an abortion then perhaps you haven't lived in the real world yet *shrug*

Obviously you haven't learned much. What should I expect from you though? :)

:confused: So you don't believe that actions speak louder than words and a RC parochial school represents the RCC? The speech of this school may toe the Vatican line, but their actions say otherwise. Their actions will encourage other single teachers at this school to get abortions if they become pregnant, and their action of removing income from a pregnant teacher is unloving and unmerciful to both the teacher and the fetus itself. As I said earlier I don't think that these school officials with get any mercy from God when they need it.

Diane
:wave:
 
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Letalis

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Diane_Windsor said:
Think about it. You have no income and you are soon to give birth to a little baby that you are responsible for. Do you know how much infants costs? You have medical fees, you need to buy diapers, formula, bottles, clothes, baby wipes, etc., etc. Do you know how much money all of this costs? A person needs income to pay for these new baby things along with the electricity, water, utility, etc. bills that come in every month. There are millions of pregnant women around the world that will have an abortion under these circumstances.

If you don't understand how having no income puts pressure upon women to have an abortion then perhaps you haven't lived in the real world yet *shrug*
Do you know what kind of slippery slope that is? No one has ANY moral obligation to pay someone for a job they are not doing well.
 
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praying

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If you don't understand how having no income puts pressure upon women to have an abortion then perhaps you haven't lived in the real world yet *shrug*

I do understand this but, then I say don't take chances. This was no teenage girl, I believe she is 28. And I realize that mistakes happen but at some point we have to take responsibilty for our actions.
 
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Diane_Windsor

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Michael,

MichaelFJF said:
Losing her job is the direct consequence of breaking the rules, period. Let's just forgive everybody - all the time - no consequences ever. Happy?

And death and hell are the direct consequence of sin. However, God chose to show mercy on his creation when we broke the rules. Why can't this parochial school show mercy and compassion upon this teacher? Doesn't the Vatican teach that we should show mercy and compassion on others? :confused: There are other consequences of breaking company policy than firing. There could be a suspension with pay and benefits for example.

This firing sends the message that the school has standards.

The firing sends the message that this RC parochial school supports abortion, and cares more about their rules than compassion, mercy, and love. God forbid that these officials ever have a need for mercy because they're not going to get it.

Again with the slap at the religion that actually expects people to live in a moral way. Hmmmmm.

1. I'm not convinced that this parochial school expects people to live in a "moral" way. Their unloving and unmerciful actions are speaking very loudly. Perhaps they need to read the Epistle of James of the Gospel of John.
2. This coming from a denomination that protected pedophile priests, etc., etc. They certianly did not expect that their priests live in a moral way at that time. And there were even lower expectations in prior centuries of cardinals and popes.
3. Actions like this are not helping the RCC re-gain moral authority over anyone in this country.

And have you learned that sometimes there are consequences to your actions? Or would you like a free pass all the time?

Next time you sin be sure to thank God Almighty for Her compassion and mercy because the consequneces of sin is death and each and every one of us deserve Hell.

Diane
:wave:
 
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Diane_Windsor

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Letalis said:
Do you know what kind of slippery slope that is? No one has ANY moral obligation to pay someone for a job they are not doing well.

Christians do have the moral obligation to show mercy and compassion to others.

Diane
:wave:
 
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Diane_Windsor

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Michael, I hardly think that you can speak for me. The message that I get from this action is that this parochial school (and by extension the diocese and the Vatican) supports abortion, and I am sure that I am not the only person who gets this message.

Gobble Gobble!

Diane
:wave:

ETA: I find it very interesting that you are ignoring my comments on compassion and mercy. Do you agree that Christians should be compassionate and merciful?
 
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MichaelFJF

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Diane_Windsor said:
Michael, I hardly think that you can speak for me. The message that I get from this action is that this parochial school (and by extension the diocese and the Vatican) supports abortion, and I am sure that I am not the only person who gets this message.

Gobble Gobble!

Diane
:wave:

ETA: I find it very interesting that you are ignoring my comments on compassion and mercy. Do you agree that Christians should be compassionate and merciful?
romecoming said:
Yes, we forgive. Forgiving does not always mean the removal of consequences. We do not judge life or death; it is God alone who saves or condemns. In the smaller things, we have to make judgments every day.
If you get support for abortion out of any of this, you really need help with your reasoning skills.
 
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praying

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theMessiah said:
They should slap a crimson A on her chest for all to see.

Good ridance adulterer- we don't want our children to think getting knocked up outside of wedlock is ok. I'd yank my kids out of that school if they didn't do something.


Except well she isn't an adulterer. :doh: Compassion for those who only do right isn't compassion at all.
 
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butterfoot

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mhatten said:
Except well she isn't an adulterer. :doh: Compassion for those who only do right isn't compassion at all.

If she isn't an adulterer then what do you consider her? She had sex outside of marriage. By definition that is an adulterer. We should have compassion for the woman and try to bring her closer to the Lord. But she should loose her position of leadership in a classroom setting where the Lords word is being taught and she can't even obey the rules. Now after a set time should she reaffirm her faith then she should be allowed to teach in this school again but It cannot be right now.

-cw
 
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cameronw said:
If she isn't an adulterer then what do you consider her?

What do I consider her, I consider her a person who made a mistake. In Biblical terms she is a fornicator, adulteress she is not unless of course the father of the baby is married.

She had sex outside of marriage. By definition that is an adulterer.

Main Entry: adul·tery
Pronunciation: &-'d&l-t(&-)rE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ter·ies
Etymology: Middle English, alteration of avoutrie, from Middle French, from Latin adulterium, from adulter adulterer, back-formation from adulterare
: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband; also : an act of adultery


We should have compassion for the woman and try to bring her closer to the Lord. But she should loose her position of leadership in a classroom setting where the Lords word is being taught and she can't even obey the rules.

I don't have an issue with her loosing her teaching position. I do think it is counter to forgiveness to fire her and I don't think that the message, if the concern is only for the children, are getting is one the church wants to send.

They are not getting the message it is morally wrong to have premarital sex; but one of don't get caught because if you do because really bad things will happen to you if you do get caught. They are also getting the message that the church will not stand with you or support you when you do make mistakes. Also as another poster brought up you can't help but think of the sex abuse scandals and how those leadership positions were handled in relation to this.

The choices are not

1. Ignore it

or

2. Banish the wrong doer.


There is room for middle ground which has both consequences and forgiveness.

Now after a set time should she reaffirm her faith then she should be allowed to teach in this school again but It cannot be right now.

-cw

Why should she need to reaffirm her faith? Perhaps I am reading into that something that isn't meant but you really have no idea how strong her faith is.
 
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Ginny

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Since this is a Christian private organization, there is a sense from other Christians that she should be forgiven and/or let go and/or still supported by the school while she is without employment.

This private school, just like many churches and other Christian private organizations, purposely has sets of rules to maintain a Christ-like environment. These rules pertain to the leaders within the organizations. I look at this school as similar to a church to where if a single leader within a church were having premarital sex they, too, should be relieved of their duties. Forgiven, yes. God holds leaders/ teachers to a higher level of responsibility than the "student/learner" within the church.

I also look at this subject in a contractual manner. If she signed the contract and waivered on any part at any time, than her emplyment is subject to termination. I understand the Christian side of forgiveness; however, these rules are set in place for a reason... that is for the benefit and welfare of the students. Parents are paying out of pocket for their child to learn in an environment that is held to a higher standard than public school. The fact of the matter is, she broke her contract and should pay the consequences.

People keep bringing up her being treated as Christ would respond....with mercy and grace. Christ forgives us of our sins, but when we are disobedient there are consequences to be paid for our actions.
As a Christian, life does not just merrily go along being forgiven without negative result. For example, one can be sexually promiscuous and get an STD or AIDS...would God forgive us? Yes. Does AIDS or an STD magically go away? No. We could murder someone. God forgives us but we still may face jail time. God reprimands us and shows us His love, and as Christians we know this can be a painful road when we mess up. There are always consequences for our actions.

If this lady had broken any other part of her contract no one would have any problem with agreeing she would need to be let go... If she never came to work, should she just be forgiven and still maintain her job? Rules are rules are rules. If this had been a problem for her remaining abstinent, perhaps it should have been discussed during the hirinf process.

My last comment is that I guess I feel she should be terminated and if the church is willing and gracious, to allow her another position should she marry at a later time and only if there is an opening. A private organization being what it is, can make the rule to fire people that wear red socks if they want to...as long as it is stated before hire and the prospective employee understands and signs. No matter how silly the rule may sound to someone else, it is none of our business. It is a private institution and we, as the public, can like it or not. Just don't send in an application or accept an offer if you disagree. The facts are what they are. You can't sign and then squawk about it later. We always have a choice. No one forced her to work there.
:idea: If she had not gotten pregnant, would she be making a big deal out of this part of the contract? Probably not..... Interesting. :scratch: It is now only a problem b/c she is dealing with the consequences.
 
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Diane_Windsor

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MichaelFJF said:
If you get support for abortion out of any of this, you really need help with your reasoning skills.

:yawn: Actions speak louder than words Michael.

ETA: I find it very interesting that you are ignoring my comments on compassion and mercy. Do you agree that Christians should be compassionate and merciful?

It is a simple yes or no question so why are you avoiding it? :scratch:

The readers of this forum can only assume that by ignoring my question you believe that Christians should not have compassion and mercy for others. If you believe that then I suggest that you read the Gospels.

Or that you are too prideful to admit that this school is violating the Biblical principles of mercy and compassion.

Diane
:)
 
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MichaelFJF

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Actions speak louder than words Michael.
Agreed.
ETA: I find it very interesting that you are ignoring my comments on compassion and mercy. Do you agree that Christians should be compassionate and merciful?
Yes. But I also believe, as someone else stated, that compassion and forgiveness does NOT equate to no consequences.
It is a simple yes or no question so why are you avoiding it? :scratch:
To be honest, it's been so long I have no idea what you're talking about.
The readers of this forum can only assume that by ignoring my question you believe that Christians should not have compassion and mercy for others. If you believe that then I suggest that you read the Gospels.
Well you know what they say about making assumptions. And on a side note, I really don't care what people think or assume about me.
Or that you are too prideful to admit that this school is violating the Biblical principles of mercy and compassion.
Speaking of the bible, what was that commandment about adultery again?
 
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