Financial freedom...?

[BryanW92]

It sounds like you just have a problem with being told what to do, even if it is Jesus who's doing the telling. I would love to see you attempt this argument face to face with Jesus; maybe then you would realize just how silly it sounds.

Who knows, maybe someone back in his day already did attempt this kind of reasoning with him and that's why he said, "Why do you call me Lord, but do not obey me"?





So what if your child used the same reasoning on you as you've tried to use with Jesus' commands? You tell your child to take out the trash and he responds with, "Following teachings for their wisdom and knowledge and following commands are two different things". How would you respond to him?

I would say that I am telling him to take out the trash now. That is a command. It is not a commandment to make taking out the trash as his way of life.

OR, what if he tells you, quite innocently, "we're not under the law anymore" and as a result ignores your instruction for him to take out the trash? What would you say to him?

He is being childish. I'm not talking about "the law" in this case. Again, this is an order for this time and place, not a way of life.

OR, what if he tells you, "Love is the greatest commandment which fulfills all the law" as a way of ignoring your instruction to take out the trash. How would you respond to him?

He can love the trash right out to the garage. Again, this is not the law. This is a command for a specific set of circumstances and not a way of life.

I'm very keen to hear your answers to these questions. I think we both know what the answer is and I think we both know how I will then use that answer to further promote Jesus' teachings, but even still, I'm interested to hear how you will phrase it.

What kind of theological contortions will you twist yourself into in order to avoid the obvious.

I'm sure that you will repeat the teachings of the Jesus Christians in response. I can check them off on the 240 Commands website.

 

[Aldebaran]

I never asked you a question like that. I only responded to comments you actually made and compared them to what Jesus said. Otherwise, quote me where I condescended to you and prove your allegation. Since *I* know you cannot do that, I know you are still playing this game where you use any excuse you can find to take the attention away from discussing Jesus.

Ok, here's what was said in post #26:

Aldebaran:
"What they do outside of their job in their home and social life can be for love."

Tremble:
"Yes, after we've finished working for money, God can have some of our leftover time."

So here you make it sound like I've done something wrong by going to work each day. You even said in the same post when I asked you if it's ok to work at a job,

Tremble:
"Why are you asking me? What did Jesus say about it? Does he want us to spend our lives forcing people to pay us for our love?"

What you do here is make assumptions about my intentions. Am I "forcing someone to pay me for my love"? An employer knows that a paycheck is part of the deal when an employee works for him. That's a given. Plus, I don't tell an employer that he needs to pay me for my love.

The point I'm trying to make here is that you are twisting things around to make them fit where you want them to. Instead of asking me if Jesus wants me to spend my life forcing someone to pay me for my love, why not accept that what I'm asking you about is obviously about working so that I can have enough money to pay for the things I need so that I'm not burdening others? Then you could answer my question on that obvious basis.

If I had a wife and told told her I loved her and then demanded a paycheck for that, then you could accurately say that I'm forcing someone to pay me for my love.

You yourself have expressed frustration several times that I simply will not talk about myself; I just keep talking about Jesus.

Tremble, Matthew 5:14-16 says,
“You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven."


I believe He said this because we can quote scripture all day to someone to convince them to live a certain way. But we are to be examples to others. I just want to know what your example is, just as a nonbeliever wants to know the example of a believer.

Try not to take this personally, because it's really not meant to be. The reason I'm going into these details now is because what you are doing is a common problem for a lot of Christians. You are struggling with these teachings because accepting them means a radical life-style change which you are not prepared to make. However, you also cannot live with the idea of knowingly ignoring Jesus. In order to resolve this conflict in your conscience you are looking for ways to discredit me, distract from the topic, or in some other way convince yourself that Jesus didn't really mean what he actually said.

I'll give you credit for being insightful. Indeed, you point out things said by Jesus, and it makes me wonder if I'm in the wrong. So I try to dig into it a little more by asking questions and try to see examples of people actually doing what is being advocated. Do you know why I do this? Did you read what I've said a couple times about my experience with the Seventh Day Adventist Church? They quoted scripture too, and mentioned what Jesus said. They knew the bible inside and out. They even went into great detail about how the bible books were preserved and assembled. But in the end, their focus was all wrong. They still focused on our own works to please God. But before that, I was almost convinced they were right. Yes, I argued with them too, and they bested me every time, so I thought they must be right. I came to the conclusion that we need to know what is really true so we don't get tossed about like the waves of the ocean by every wind of doctrine.

 

[tremble]

I would say that I am telling him to take out the trash now. That is a command. It is not a commandment to make taking out the trash as his way of life.

But, you still expect him to obey. What reason do you have to think it is different with Jesus?

He is being childish. I'm not talking about "the law" in this case. Again, this is an order for this time and place, not a way of life.

No, you only seem to talk about the law when it comes to following teachings you disagree with. How convenient.

He can love the trash right out to the garage. Again, this is not the law. This is a command for a specific set of circumstances and not a way of life.

Jesus was quite specific too, but you're too busy arguing about the law to notice.

 

[tremble]

Aldebaran:
"What they do outside of their job in their home and social life can be for love."

Tremble:
"Yes, after we've finished working for money, God can have some of our leftover time."

So here you make it sound like I've done something wrong by going to work each day. You even said in the same post when I asked you if it's ok to work at a job,

I didn't "make it sound like" anything. Look again. Compare the two statements. You said, "outside of work". I said, "after work". They use slightly different words, but they have the same meaning. I sometimes interchange the phrases, "working for God" and "working for love" as though they are the same thing but I don't see any inconsistency there.

Tremble:
"Why are you asking me? What did Jesus say about it? Does he want us to spend our lives forcing people to pay us for our love?"

What you do here is make assumptions about my intentions. Am I "forcing someone to pay me for my love"? An employer knows that a paycheck is part of the deal when an employee works for him. That's a given. Plus, I don't tell an employer that he needs to pay me for my love.

Sure you do. Not in those exact words, but if he does not pay you, then you will withhold your time and efforts from him (and the customers). That is the whole point of payment. If you do not get the pay, you will not do the work.

Consider a Father/Mother and child. They do not ask for payment from the child before they will give their time to caring for the child's needs. God wants us to have that kind of attitude for all people.

Perhaps part of the problem is that you genuinely do not see "working for love" as something that you need to do as a Christian. If you get a bit of spare time or you happen to feel the inclination you may do something to help someone for love, but you don't see it as a requirement for citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven.

If that is the case, can you think how how you came to that conclusion? What has led you to believe that Jesus does not expect his followers to follow the same basic principles that he lived by? Doesn't that sound even just a little bit strange to you?

There are thousands of different ways to work for love and thousands of ways to spread the gospel but the basic foundation for all believers is the same; Jesus the cornerstone. He said, "The one who hears my sayings and does them is like a wise man building his house on a rock".

And inversely, the foolish man also heard Jesus' teachings, but did not act on them. He built his house on the sand an when the storm (death) came, the house was destroyed. In both cases, the two people heard the sayings. The only difference was that one of them acted on those teachings while the other did not.

But in the end, their focus was all wrong. They still focused on our own works to please God.

This is a good reason to make sure the focus stays on the teachings of Jesus.

I came to the conclusion that we need to know what is really true so we don't get tossed about like the waves of the ocean by every wind of doctrine.

I don't have perfect understanding of all truth, but I believe my interpretation of Jesus' teachings are consistent with his actions and the behaviour of the early church. That is why I consistently post examples, from the bible. That is why it's so disappointing for me when you brush those examples aside.

You want to know "what is really true" but you don't seem to put much faith in the example and testimony of those early pioneers. On several occasions you've communicated that those examples are not good enough; you want to hear about me. But, how can my example inspire you if Jesus' example does not?

Now you're even starting to think I must be hiding something. You've managed to find fault with me for not telling you about my personal life as though I am denying something to which you are rightfully owed. You've become agitated to the point that you're calling me names because of it. I can't even post Bible verses without you becoming annoyed, as though promoting Jesus is a way to avoid the really important issues. Think back in your own mind. How did it get to this point? How did you come to see the testimony of Jesus as a distraction?

 

[Aldebaran]

I didn't "make it sound like" anything. Look again. Compare the two statements. You said, "outside of work". I said, "after work". They use slightly different words, but they have the same meaning.

Fine. So what if I show love to people while at work. Do you think that would be good enough, or would Jesus look for a way (in your humble opinion) to find something wrong about that? Personally, I don't think He's watching us under a microscope looking for something to fault us for.

Sure you do. Not in those exact words, but if he does not pay you, then you will withhold your time and efforts from him (and the customers). That is the whole point of payment. If you do not get the pay, you will not do the work.

Withhold? Does my employer own me like a slave? Do I not have the choice whether to work for him or not? If I don't, then I'm nothing but a doormat to everyone who wants me to do something--and for what? Is that supposed to inspire others to come to Christ?

Perhaps part of the problem is that you genuinely do not see "working for love" as something that you need to do as a Christian. If you get a bit of spare time or you happen to feel the inclination you may do something to help someone for love, but you don't see it as a requirement for citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven.

"Need to do". So faith in Christ isn't enough? (Tell that to the thief on the cross). We need to do things in a specific way (work for no money, enslave ourselves to an employer) in order to be part of the Kingdom of Heaven? In Revelation, He says to some who calls Him, "Lord, Lord" to "Depart from me, I never knew you". He doesn't say, "Depart from me, you worked for money, or you didn't do enough after you believed in me". See the difference?

I don't have perfect understanding of all truth, but I believe my interpretation of Jesus' teachings are consistent with his actions and the behaviour of the early church. That is why I consistently post examples, from the bible. That is why it's so disappointing for me when you brush those examples aside.

"From the bible" also means from over 2,000 years ago, in a different culture, on the other side of the world, and at the very beginning of Christianity when no one had heard of Jesus, and at a time when people were waiting and watching for the expected Messiah. Now it's the 21st century. So is asking for someone to give an example of how they are able to live that way such a big thing? I'm asking this of someone who talks so much about loving others and how we have to be so selfless.

You want to know "what is really true" but you don't seem to put much faith in the example and testimony of those early pioneers. On several occasions you've communicated that those examples are not good enough; you want to hear about me. But, how can my example inspire you if Jesus' example does not?

What I want to know is....oh, what's the use?

Now you're even starting to think I must be hiding something. You've managed to find fault with me for not telling you about my personal life as though I am denying something to which you are rightfully owed.

Not as something I'm rightfully owed, but something that you would obviously volunteer if it was anything that you thought represented the light that Jesus said we were to be to the world--the light that Jesus told us to put in the open rather than hide under the bed.

You've become agitated to the point that you're calling me names because of it. I can't even post Bible verses without you becoming annoyed, as though promoting Jesus is a way to avoid the really important issues. Think back in your own mind. How did it get to this point? How did you come to see the testimony of Jesus as a distraction?

You use bible verses to avoid answering questions. Bible verses can be used to pretty much create any position if taken out of context. That's how cults get people to follow them. What if I quote to you the verses where Jesus told us that if our right eye or right hand causes us to sin, that we should cut them off? Do you still have those bodily appendages? If you do, does that mean you've never committed a sin? If you say you haven't, then that's like saying you are without sin. 1 John 1:8 says If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
By that reasoning, we all should cut off our arms and gouge out our eyes. That is, unless Jesus didn't mean what He said.

 

[tremble]

Fine. So what if I show love to people while at work. Do you think that would be good enough, or would Jesus look for a way (in your humble opinion) to find something wrong about that? Personally, I don't think He's watching us under a microscope looking for something to fault us for.

Who are you trying to convince?

Withhold? Does my employer own me like a slave? Do I not have the choice whether to work for him or not? If I don't, then I'm nothing but a doormat to everyone who wants me to do something--and for what? Is that supposed to inspire others to come to Christ?

Yes, of course you have the choice to work for whomever you want. But you cannot serve both. You must choose one or the other.

"Need to do". So faith in Christ isn't enough?

How can we say we have faith in Jesus if we reject his teachings?

We need to do things in a specific way (work for no money, enslave ourselves to an employer) in order to be part of the Kingdom of Heaven?

God isn't allowed to have standards for his followers? Are you really thinking about these issues, or just reacting?

In Revelation, He says to some who calls Him, "Lord, Lord" to "Depart from me, I never knew you". He doesn't say, "Depart from me, you worked for money, or you didn't do enough after you believed in me". See the difference?

He calls them "workers of iniquity". These people had convinced themselves that they were doing the right thing and yet they were not. They probably listened to their church leaders, or their friends and family, or motivational speakers or any number of other people claiming to have the answers; but they didn't listen to Jesus.

"From the bible" also means from over 2,000 years ago, in a different culture, on the other side of the world, and at the very beginning of Christianity when no one had heard of Jesus, and at a time when people were waiting and watching for the expected Messiah. Now it's the 21st century.

If only Jesus had thought through the issues a bit better and planned ahead. Too bad you weren't there to warn him about the 21st century.

So is asking for someone to give an example of how they are able to live that way such a big thing? I'm asking this of someone who talks so much about loving others and how we have to be so selfless.

No, it's not a big thing. I just think you would not appreciate it.

You use bible verses to avoid answering questions.

And if I were to give you my testimony, you'd find something wrong with that, too.

Bible verses can be used to pretty much create any position if taken out of context.

You've not shown the verses I quoted to be out of context.

That's how cults get people to follow them.

Like I said earlier, this path only leads to hatred. Let it go while you still can.

What if I quote to you the verses where Jesus told us that if our right eye or right hand causes us to sin, that we should cut them off? Do you still have those bodily appendages? If you do, does that mean you've never committed a sin?

Did you read the article? It deals with these issues. Can you comment on that?

 

[Alithis]

the thing about testimony... is when it is truthful in the name of our Lord Jesus, it cant be wrong in its telling as it is the sharing of an individuals tangible experience.

 

[Aldebaran]

Who are you trying to convince?

That is your reply when I asked you, "So what if I show love to people while at work. Do you think that would be good enough, or would Jesus look for a way (in your humble opinion) to find something wrong about that?"

Do you really not understand why I'm getting frustrated with you?

Yes, of course you have the choice to work for whomever you want. But you cannot serve both. You must choose one or the other.

So do you think Jesus will one day say to me, "Depart from me because you worked for Smith Automotive instead of me"? Do you really believe he meant that a person couldn't work for an employer if they're a Christian?

How can we say we have faith in Jesus if we reject his teachings?

John 1:12--"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name".

He calls them "workers of iniquity". These people had convinced themselves that they were doing the right thing and yet they were not. They probably listened to their church leaders, or their friends and family, or motivational speakers or any number of other people claiming to have the answers; but they didn't listen to Jesus.

That's your assumption. You have no idea what iniquity that had worked.

If only Jesus had thought through the issues a bit better and planned ahead. Too bad you weren't there to warn him about the 21st century.

Sarcasm, huh?
If only His followers would stop hiding their own testimony from those they witness to, questions about what these followers are actually talking about.



Tremble, I asked you: "So is asking for someone to give an example of how they are able to live that way such a big thing? I'm asking this of someone who talks so much about loving others and how we have to be so selfless."

Your answer was:

No, it's not a big thing. I just think you would not appreciate it.

Is that what Jesus told his desciples when he instructed them about how to respond to anyone who asks them why they believe what they do?

And if I were to give you my testimony, you'd find something wrong with that, too.

Is that what you're afraid of, being criticized? You're getting that from multiple angles because you REFUSE to give your testimony, or at least to tell us how you're able to live the way you're advocating.

 

[tremble]

So do you think Jesus will one day say to me, "Depart from me because you worked for Smith Automotive instead of me"?

Well, since I won't be there, and since it's none of my business what goes on in your personal life with Jesus, you've given me an impossible question to answer, but, looking at the word in bold, isn't the answer to your question contained in the question itself?

John 1:12--"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name".

How can we say we've received Jesus if we do not follow his teachings?

Tremble, I asked you: "So is asking for someone to give an example of how they are able to live that way such a big thing?

You seem to think it's a big thing.

Is that what Jesus told his desciples when he instructed them about how to respond to anyone who asks them why they believe what they do?

Jesus said a lot about how to respond, or not respond, to various people and situations. I'm thinking of one in particular right now. Can you guess what it is?

 

[tremble]

the thing about testimony... is when it is truthful in the name of our Lord Jesus, it cant be wrong in its telling as it is the sharing of an individuals tangible experience.

Can't be wrong in the name of Jesus, eh? Well, whatever works for you.

 

[Aldebaran]

Well, since I won't be there, and since it's none of my business what goes on in your personal life with Jesus, you've given me an impossible question to answer, but, looking at the word in bold, isn't the answer to your question contained in the question itself?

I was asking your opinion. Was it too much to ask of you to offer one?

How can we say we've received Jesus if we do not follow his teachings?

Read it again, Tremble. Notice the part in bold. John 1:12--"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name".

Ok? I'm trying to be as clear with you as I can, but you keep finding a loophole, even if you have to make one, to wiggle your way out of answering a question.

Jesus said a lot about how to respond, or not respond, to various people and situations. I'm thinking of one in particular right now. Can you guess what it is?

I'm not going to play guessing games with you. I was very specific in my question, which was, "Is that what Jesus told his desciples when he instructed them about how to respond to anyone who asks them why they believe what they do?"

What did Paul say about the love of God? Did he say we have to work for it?
Romans 8:39--"Nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."

What did he say concerning witnessing about Christ when asked?
1 Peter 3:15--"But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect"

What did John say concerning what Jesus did for us?
John 3:16--For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Finally, Tremble, what did Paul say about God's grace and how we are saved? Is it dependent upon anything we do, or is it all because of what He has done for us?

Ephesians 2:4-9--4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[MoneyGuy]

"Freedom's" just another word for "nothing left to lose"...

And nothing ain't worth nothing but it's free.

 

[Alithis]

Can't be wrong in the name of Jesus, eh? Well, whatever works for you.

now now .. that's not what I said .

 

[tremble]

I was asking your opinion. Was it too much to ask of you to offer one?

Earlier you were upset when you thought I was judging your salvation. Now you want me to do it. Anyway, I did give my opinion. Look again at what I said about the words in bold.

Read it again, Tremble. Notice the part in bold. John 1:12--"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name".

How can we say we believe in his name if we refuse to follow his teachings?

What did Paul say about the love of God? Did he say we have to work for it?
Romans 8:39--"Nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Imagine a parent who asks his child to do something, but the child doesn't want to do it, for whatever reason. When the parent insists, the child takes the parent to court and argues about how he (the child) should not need to do anything to earn the parents love.

Sound familiar?

What did he say concerning witnessing about Christ when asked?
1 Peter 3:15--"But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect"

I've given you the best defence I know how. It's not my fault Jesus' testimony isn't good enough for you.

What did John say concerning what Jesus did for us?
John 3:16--For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Agreed. What a wonderful sacrifice.

Finally, Tremble, what did Paul say about God's grace and how we are saved? Is it dependent upon anything we do, or is it all because of what He has done for us?

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

You forgot verse 10

EPH 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

If you see someone boasting about their own rightiousness, then do correct them, but it would be good if you could deal with that is actually being said instead of looking for prooftexts to soothe your conscience.

 

[tremble]

And nothing ain't worth nothing but it's free.

Hi moneyguy. The sentence is a little confusing but I think it sounds good. ^.^

 

[MoneyGuy]

Hi moneyguy. The sentence is a little confusing but I think it sounds good. ^.^

It's just a continuation of song lyrics that someone else started.

Me and Bobbie McGee by Gordon Lightfoot, great Canadian folk singer.

 

[Aldebaran]

Imagine a parent who asks his child to do something, but the child doesn't want to do it, for whatever reason. When the parent insists, the child takes the parent to court and argues about how he (the child) should not need to do anything to earn the parents love.

What am I to take from this statement? If you want to be literal about it, I'd say the judge would tell the child that of course he doesn't need to earn his parents' love. He is their son. That doesn't change, does it?

I've given you the best defence I know how. It's not my fault Jesus' testimony isn't good enough for you.

Can you show me where I asked you to give me Jesus' testimony? I can show you a ton of quotes where I asked you to tell me yours concerning how you're able to live the way you advocate others to. I can show you just as many quotes where you either refused, or twisted my request into something else, like you just did here.

 

[Norah63]

Aldebaran, I can tell you from posting for a long time on these forums that the oneness or Jesus only or however it is called, do not respond in the manner one would think.
I have asked others of this way, and never did get anything except, follow Jesus words, and it does kind of leave you hanging as to just plain talk.
I just accept that as their way of discussion, or sharing.
Why we all have these glitches in our communication is just free will at work in us. imo.

 

[tremble]

Tremble:
Imagine a parent who asks his child to do something, but the child doesn't want to do it, for whatever reason. When the parent insists, the child takes the parent to court and argues about how he (the child) should not need to do anything to earn the parents love.
​

What am I to take from this statement? If you want to be literal about it, I'd say the judge would tell the child that of course he doesn't need to earn his parents' love. He is their son. That doesn't change, does it?

Okay, so the judge will confirm that the boy does not need to do anything to earn the parents love. I think the parents themselves would agree with that. They loved him before he was even able to do anything.

However, if the judge does not say anything about the parents right to tell the child what to do, then all we end up with is a spoiled child who complains about how he does not need to earn his parents love anytime he does not want to do what they tell him to do.

 

[Aldebaran]

Okay, so the judge will confirm that the boy does not need to do anything to earn the parents love. I think the parents themselves would agree with that. They loved him before he was even able to do anything.

However, if the judge does not say anything about the parents right to tell the child what to do, then all we end up with is a spoiled child who complains about how he does not need to earn his parents love anytime he does not want to do what they tell him to do.

That may very well be the case, so the child wouldn't have a very good relationship with his parents. But the child never ceases to be the parents' son. The relationship may not be very good, but the position of "son" (or daughter) doesn't change. This is how it works here on earth with imperfect parents. Imagine how much more true it is when the parent is God! His love is more perfect than ours.

Christ is the foundation. What we do later is built on that foundation. In 1 Corinthians 3, we're told that our works will be tested by fire. Some of our works will burn up, and some will remain which results in reward. But either way, we ourselves are saved. That part doesn't change. Here's the bible passage I'm referring to:

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11" For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames."

What I see here is the result of what we do with our lives after we are saved. Since we are still living in our fleshly bodies here in this world that is ruled by the devil, we do what we as best we can, guided by the Holy Spirit. Sometimes we will do well, and some of our works will be selfless, and others won't be. Sometimes we will stumble into sin. Sometimes we might even go completely astray like the prodigal son. But the good news is that we will still be His son no matter what. Those who choose to only live for themselves and maybe even forsake God won't see much, if any, reward, but their salvation remains.